Alex green vs o-line?

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Originally posted by packerboi:
Found this interesting:

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"Since 2010, the Packers are 14-0 when James Starks carries the ball more than 10 times in a game."

Also, when I eat butterscotch pudding on the toilet 12 minutes before a Packer kickoff, they are 32-18-1

what's your record with pistachio? I really think pistachio might get you/us a few more wins.

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Originally posted by CUPackFan:
It's easy to be decisive when there is a hole there, and it's equally tough to be decisive when there isn't a hole.

And that's the point. Green could be a good back, better than the ones you pointed out (Gary and Anderson), but the difference is the blocking. Shannahan knows how to get the OL coached up (or at least the right people to do it) and he knows how to put his players in the right position to have a successful running game. I can see that McCarthy wants to run and he's smart enough to know he needs to have balance, but he's a QB coach. He can coach up a QB to pass for NFL records, but he needs someone on his staff that can help him build a great running game. Campen might be a knowledgeable guy and he's done some good things, but I think it's clear at this point that he's not a guy who will turn a good OL into an elite OL. He can get players to do their jobs, but he's not getting enough out of them.

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Originally posted by CUPackFan:
Anyone remember Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson? Average RB's (at best) that put up 1,000 yard seasons under Shanahan. I'm not ready to anoint Morris as anything more than an average RB that is playing under a great scheme.

I remember Clinton Portis too! I never said he was great, all I said it was a bad analogy comparing him to Green.

Why is it a bad analogy? Morris isn't a special RB, he's doing a great job hitting the holes he's given. Green is just as talented as Morris but he's not as productive because he's not hitting the holes as none are available. You can't say Morris is better at this or that than Green, Morris is getting opportunities that Green is not. Morris is what you said he is, a powerful one-cut runner, but Green has shown both of those traits. It just looks worse because he's having to cut so quickly and the best option to cut to is a gain of 2 yards.

We really need someone with the all-22 to post some screen shots of the run plays. I am of the opinion that there was some cut back lanes available and Green simply didnt have the vision to take advantage.

I'm not saying drive a truck through it holes, but something other than slamming into the back of an OL where the play was called.

I watch him dance at the LOS, be friggen decisive hit the called hole. There are times the hole isn't there initially, GOOD running backs hit the crease anyway and viola, alot of times the hole has opened by then. Or you can just dance at the LOS and average 2.9 yards a carry.

Is Green really that much different than Brandon Jackson when he's running inside? He left some yards on the field and really does his best work when you can get him in space. That said, the OL didn't do him any favors with the job they did yesterday.

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Originally posted by BrainDed:
We really need someone with the all-22 to post some screen shots of the run plays. I am of the opinion that there was some cut back lanes available and Green simply didnt have the vision to take advantage.

I'm not saying drive a truck through it holes, but something other than slamming into the back of an OL where the play was called.

I agree, love to see some pics. Many times in that game I was yelling at green for not hitting a cutback. He seemed to always attach himself to a blocker and consequently tackled. I'd like see Starks soon

While Morris without a doubt has better blocking, bigger holes, and plays defenses that also have to worry about RGIII running, I think it's fair to say he fights through tackles better and has better balance than Green based on what I've seen so far.

When MM talks about those hard yards and turning 1-2 yarders into 3-4 yarders Morris would be a good example to point to. Morris likes to lean forward and slug his way through.

Not really sure that's the kind of back Green is though. To me he seems like he wants to burst through and get into top gear and go. As big as Green he seems pretty light on his feet. I don't mean it as a slight. He's a fast accelerator and nimble he's just not a bruiser. If he can get into space he's the kind of guy that can zip to big gains.



Rodgers will shy away from the open checkdown at times to take shots down field, but I think those are the plays Green excels at. He can catch, turn, and burn as well as anyone I've seen.

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Originally posted by BrainDed:
cut back lanes available

I tend to agree, from my vantage point there were cutbacks available.

Curious though, there are experts in this thread who feel he needs to hit the hole decisively, (which I felt he did do, when there was a cutback lane available) or if he needs to use his vision more (which could look like more "dancing").

IMHGFO, I think he doesn't have the kind of running instincts to run between the tackles on this team primarily because we have at least one line man taking two steps backward on every blocking scheme. I like what I see when he is in space, so a swing pass, dump off, or screen is what I would prefer.

All in all, I think the blocking sucks so bad that no one has the chance to show what they can do.

I'm not trying to say that Alfred Morris isn't good, I think he is really good. I think he's doing a great job with what he's given. Same for the Patriots RBs, they're not a group of exceptionally talented RBs, but they run very hard and constantly get positive yards. I think Green could do everything they're doing and more, but the difference is that those teams, and that highlight reel of Alfred Morris shows this, their OLines are giving them good looks. Not trying to take anything away from Morris or Steven Ridley because they are making some exceptional plays, but the majority of the time those guys are turning something into something more. Green is turning nothing into nothing, same as what Benson was doing and same as what Starks did last year. And it's not going to be different with a different RB. Steven Jackson, DeAngelo Williams, LeGarrette Blunt, none of them will produce well with what is being given. The problem isn't at RB. I think Green could really produce with better blocking, I think he could be a really good player in this offense. Is he Adrian Peterson? Absolutely not, but I think he could be better than Ryan Grant who functioned quite well in this offense.

I actually think we could have a superb RB duo in Green and Starks if the OL and the coaches get it together. Both guys have shown really good things when given a decent look from the OL.

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Anyone remember Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson? Average RB's (at best) that put up 1,000 yard seasons under Shanahan.

They also had a great OL to run behind. Terrell Davis ran behind much the same OL for over 2000 yds one season.

i think replacing Saturday would go a long ways towards getting the run game going. But it would mean putting an unproven guy in one of the more important spots on the offensive line. Still, I doubt he could get much worse than the way Saturday has been playing so far.

another thing to consider..Kuhn wasn't playing last game. He's an important part to the power run game and without him the Packers were running a lot of single back. Whenever they did have two backs the FB was usually a tight end and I think I even saw EDS back there on one play. With Kuhn in there, I think the Packers can start running more power, which is where Green is more comfortable IMO. When they're running zone, Green seems uncomfortable and hesitant, he also struggles to stay upright when making cuts. In power, Green seems more patient and explosive into the hole.

MM loves him some ground game. And they have been making an obvious effort to try to establish a run game

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
next year the OL will be Bulaga, Sitton, Lang at Center, Newhouse at guard, and sherrod at LT. I don;t see any running back able to run up the middle with Saturday at center. He gets no push.

No. Lang is locked into LG and Newhouse is not a guard at all. Sherrod is a question mark.

Just before the start of the season, MM and TT saw a deficiency in the Packer running game. They chose to attempt to fix it by adding a player. They didn't bring in a new C, OT or G to fix it. They brought in a RB instead. I find that telling.

They saw Alex Green coming off a bad knee injury, which is always an unknown for skill position players, and Starks being injured and not showing the kind of attitude they expected. I think the fact that they didn't add anyone after Benson went down is more telling. If they didn't have faith in Green or think he couldn't handle the load they would have found someone else to replace him.

Grave Digger > Pakrz

Kuhn isn't a powerful Fullback, he's an all-around/versatile player. He's no Hendo in the hole.

Truth. Green is a good player, but he's not a Benson type runner. You have injuries, you sub with what you have to keep defenses honest but the production isn't there. Cost of doing business in the NFL.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
They saw Alex Green coming off a bad knee injury, which is always an unknown for skill position players, and Starks being injured and not showing the kind of attitude they expected. I think the fact that they didn't add anyone after Benson went down is more telling. If they didn't have faith in Green or think he couldn't handle the load they would have found someone else to replace him.

They weren't expecting Saturday to play this bad. Bulaga regressing was unexpected as well. Our o-line was predicted to be one of the best before the season started. O-line performance has been surprising to say the least.

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Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
Grave Digger > Pakrz

Suck up

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Originally posted by Nick:
They weren't expecting Saturday to play this bad. Bulaga regressing was unexpected as well. Our o-line was predicted to be one of the best before the season started. O-line performance has been surprising to say the least.

That's a good point. I think Bulaga's regression has more to do with a bad knee though doesn't it? He's been so reliable the past 2 years that it has to be some kind of injury that's causing his decline IMO. It hasn't helped that teams like the Seahawks completely sold out to rushing the QB and had success, making it hard for any OT to be effective. Saturday is just not big enough. He used to get by on technique, but teams have figured out that he can't handle the bull rush no matter how much good technique he uses.

I hope there's some neanderthal OL from Wisucksin or IblOWA that we can draft to shore up this OL.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Saturday is just not big enough. He used to get by on technique, but teams have figured out that he can't handle the bull rush no matter how much good technique he uses.

Add in he has said he's still learning the offensive terminology. He's QBing the oline and it shows.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
I hope there's some neanderthal OL from Wisucksin or IblOWA that we can draft to shore up this OL.

Barrett Jones anyone? Chance Warmack is probably the best OL prospect this year, but he's a LG unfortunately.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Wisucksin or IblOWA

somewhere TD is smiling

Maybe go pay Bob Bostad whatever he wants to be the OL coach. Bucky's OL has gone from the envy of college football to crap in one season.

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Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
somewhere TD is smiling

In some twisted sick way, I miss him...

Unfortunately CB, Tampa had the same idea which is why they lured Bostad down to Tampa shortly after he followed Chryst to Pitt. Maybe after the season they could lure him back to the state of Wisconsin with the Packers.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
They saw Alex Green coming off a bad knee injury, which is always an unknown for skill position players, and Starks being injured and not showing the kind of attitude they expected. I think the fact that they didn't add anyone after Benson went down is more telling. If they didn't have faith in Green or think he couldn't handle the load they would have found someone else to replace him.

I think I may have said this somewhere.

Watching Green yesterday reminded me of the Travis Jervey days....

Why? Did the camera accidentally catch Green with a big ol' spliff on the sideline?

Was there an episode of arranging to keep a pet tiger in a dorm room during training camp?

There is an opponent DL in the backfield far too much the last few weeks. If Lang can't extend his arm get him out if there. Put in EDS and give Lang time to heal.