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@ammo posted:

Bart Starr was all set to draft Montana in the 3rd round in the 1979 draft.  But he deferred to his defensive staff who talked him into Charles Johnson, a DT. In 3 years Johnson had 7.5 sacks and 1 INT.  Starr always said later that was the biggest mistake he made in drafting, he should have trusted himself.   Could you imagine have Montana, then Favre and then Rodgers?

They were also getting ready to draft Ronnie Lott with the 6th pick in 1981 before getting talked out of it and drafting Rich Campbell. I was 12 in 1981, but I remember that even from the first mini-camp the beat reporters were saying that Campbell was terrible. He might have been the worst first-round pick in Packers history. Mandarich at least was a serviceable lineman. Campbell literally couldn't throw a football hard enough to be on an NFL roster. See the Cliff Christl column from a few years ago below.

https://www.packers.com/news/p...ott-if-only-17265930

Is it true that Hawg Hanner talked Bart Starr into drafting Charles Martin when Bart wanted to draft Joe Montana? If true, there's little chance Bart would have drafted Rich Campbell instead of Ronnie Lott. Talk about a change in history.

Sorry Bruce, but you've got the story backwards and two of the names wrong. In 1979, Red Cochran, the Packers' Midwest scout, pleaded with Starr to draft Montana in the second round. Instead, Starr selected Maryland running back Steve Atkins. When Starr chose nose tackle Charles Johnson of Maryland in the third round ahead of Montana, Cochran stormed out of the draft room in a huff. "He was the guy who watched him all those years," a club official who was in the room that year told me in 1986. "He (Cochran) said, I don't care what the score is in the fourth quarter, he (Montana) is going to win for you." Two years later, Dick Corrick, the Packers' director of player personnel, tried to convince Starr to take Lott with the sixth pick. Arrangements were made to bring Lott to Green Bay for a visit, which included dinner with Starr and Corrick at the old Town & Country Club in nearby Allouez. Pleased with how the dinner had gone, Corrick made one last pitch to Starr the night before the draft and went home thinking he had convinced him to take Lott. Early the next morning, Starr informed Corrick when he showed up at the office that he couldn't ignore the input of some of his assistant coaches and planned to draft Campbell, the California quarterback. The Packers chose Campbell and the 49ers took Lott two picks later. When Starr announced his decision in the Packers' draft room, Lloyd Eaton, the team's West Coast scout, turned to Bob Harlan, who was sitting next to him, and whispered, "That's a mistake. He (Campbell) can't play." Eaton was a respected scout and had a reputation for being a straight shooter. Plus, he probably spent more time than anyone in the organization studying Campbell and Lott, who had both played college ball in California. Harlan asked Eaton at that point, "Then why didn't you speak up and say something?" Eaton responded, "They don't listen to me anyway." Five years later, after the Packers had been whipped by the 49ers in Milwaukee, Lott, his voice dripping with sarcasm, said in the locker room, "I remember I flew up there before the draft. Coach Starr was there and coach (John) Marshall had been my coach at USC. I had a feeling I was coming here. But they took Rich Campbell and had a lot of success with Rich."

@ammo posted:

Bart Starr was all set to draft Montana in the 3rd round in the 1979 draft.  But he deferred to his defensive staff who talked him into Charles Johnson, a DT. In 3 years Johnson had 7.5 sacks and 1 INT.  Starr always said later that was the biggest mistake he made in drafting, he should have trusted himself.   Could you imagine have Montana, then Favre and then Rodgers?

There would have been no Niners dynasty had Starr taken Montana. The team also passed on Jerry Rice when rumors were they were going to select him. They traded up and took Ken Ruettgers instead.

@Fandame posted:

Burrows is smert. He makes it look so smooth because he's never forcing things. He's always calm because he knows the routes and where to go with the ballâ€Ķ

Very much like AR in his first few yearsâ€Ķvery smart, very confident, and he played within the system.

If Burrows continues to be successful, he’ll eventually be making a boatload of moneyâ€Ķ.way more than his coach. Hopefully all that money, success and confidence won’t go to his head and he won’t start believing that he’s bigger than the team.

I think that’s when having a strong, proven head coach is important. The Packers don’t seem to have that.  

Yikes, I knew it was bad but it was even worse than I thought.

*******



Then again, he had nine years to build a winner. The Packers never developed players during that time, made some horrible personnel decisions and underwent constant turnover on the coaching staff and in the scouting department. Starr's record was 52-76-3. Of those 52 victories, only 13 came against teams that finished with a winning record and only two against teams that finished with more than nine wins. https://www.packers.com/news/p...ott-if-only-17265930

Last edited by D J

I'm sitting in a hospital waiting room and can't concentrate so I'm doing this to keep from going crazy and can't concentrate on work stuff.

The weird thing about Starr's personnel record was that his first round picks other than Campbell were generally very good. Likely better than TT or Ron Wolf.

One home run (Lofton), several other outstanding picks (Ezra Johnson, Tim Lewis, Hallstrom, Ivery).

1976 (24th overall) - Mark Koncar - starting LT for 5 years

1977 (9th) - Mike Butler - more than 9 sacks three different years

1977 (28th) - Ezra Johnson - 91.5 career sacks. 17.5 sacks his second year and made a Pro Bowl.

1978 (6th) - James Lofton - still probably the second best WR in Packers history after Hutson. HOFer.

1978 - John Anderson (26th) - injuries prevented him from reaching his potential ceiling, but still played LB for 12 years in Green Bay.

1979 - Eddie Lee Ivery (15th) - as good a RB that was ever in Green Bay the last 50 years. The Soldier Field turf was the thing that slowed him down.

1980 - Bruce Clark (4th) - wouldn't report to Green Bay and played 2 years in Canada instead. Later made a Pro Bowl and was a solid player for the Saints.

1981 - Rich Campbell (6th) - made Brett Hundley look like Patrick Mahomes

1982 - Ron Hallstrom (22nd) - was a starting guard for the Packers a long time. Was still a starter when Favre played in 1992.

1983 - Tim Lewis (21st) - was playing at almost a Pro Bowl level until he had to retire after the neck injury in his 4th year.

Burrow does seem a bit cocky, doesn't he? He has a ton of talent and a ton of talent around him, too. Look at his WRs. Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Irwin all are top threats. Chase and Higgins would be #1s on any team they played on. Add in TE Hurst who, IMO, is underrated as a TE and RBs Mixon and Perine catching the ball out of the backfield and you have a real force, on offense, to be dealt with by opposing defenses. I think Cincy beats KCC in the AFCCG, especially if Mahomes is hobbling around, yet, after getting his ankle twisted up.

@mrtundra posted:

Burrow does seem a bit cocky, doesn't he? He has a ton of talent and a ton of talent around him, too. Look at his WRs. Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Irwin all are top threats. Chase and Higgins would be #1s on any team they played on. Add in TE Hurst who, IMO, is underrated as a TE and RBs Mixon and Perine catching the ball out of the backfield and you have a real force, on offense, to be dealt with by opposing defenses. I think Cincy beats KCC in the AFCCG, especially if Mahomes is hobbling around, yet, after getting his ankle twisted up.

IMHO I think it is more extreme confidence as a QB when everything is clicking.  I watched the game last weekend with some good friends who are Bengals fans and I told them the talent around him is insane and if I was KC I would be concerned especially with their under rated ability to run the ball.

@mrtundra posted:

Burrow does seem a bit cocky, doesn't he? He has a ton of talent and a ton of talent around him, too. Look at his WRs. Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Irwin all are top threats. Chase and Higgins would be #1s on any team they played on. Add in TE Hurst who, IMO, is underrated as a TE and RBs Mixon and Perine catching the ball out of the backfield and you have a real force, on offense, to be dealt with by opposing defenses. I think Cincy beats KCC in the AFCCG, especially if Mahomes is hobbling around, yet, after getting his ankle twisted up.

Burrow is cocky but I think he’s mostly a fun and likable guy.  I don’t think he has the dark side of a guy like Ben Roethlisberger, at least I hope not.  

The truth is, we really don’t know these guys unless we’re in their inner circle so maybe he’s a serial killer or something.  That said, I think he’s more Joe Namath cocky with a fun side to him than compared to some other darker personalities that have played QB.

@fightphoe93 posted:

Burrow is cocky but I think he’s mostly a fun and likable guy.  I don’t think he has the dark side of a guy like Ben Roethlisberger, at least I hope not.  

The truth is, we really don’t know these guys unless we’re in their inner circle so maybe he’s a serial killer or something.  That said, I think he’s more Joe Namath cocky with a fun side to him than compared to some other darker personalities that have played QB.

It's not so much where they are now as where they will be in the future. Burrows seems like a great guy who, while cocky, manages to still be personable. Purdy barely does interviews because he wants others to get credit. But where will each be in a couple of years if they keep receiving the adulation, fame, privileges, money, etc.? QBs tend to become demanding, condescending, pains in the rear: Rodgers, Brady, Lamar, Wilson, Big Ben, et al. Finding guys like Starr, heck, even Namath, are long gone.

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