That's a great point - BrINT chose his legacy
Time does heal wounds, but I have to admit I'm not sure I will ever totally get over his exit and how HE handled himself in that whole situation. TT and MM took the high road and unfortunately Brent did not.
He was an all time great, but he's no hero or role model in my book. To each their own.
I take both sides. He was a 5 star douche toward the end of his career but yeah, I have a lot of fond memories of pre-Sherman Favre doing what seemed impossible. My earliest memories were of the disbelief I had of the small windows he was fitting throws into. After watching the Packers QB's for 10 years at that point, you grow accustomed to the idea that a pass is only thrown to a wide open receiver. From that first game winning drive I was on the edge of my seat on every throw. He'd let it loose and I held my breath and assume the worst seeing the camera pan to the receiver who based on the last 10 years of Packers football, looked covered. Only to hit the guy where only he could grab it. It probably took at least a full season to realize the guy could just do it on a regular basis. And knowing when all the cards were stacked against the team, that he could will them to some victories based on grit and guile, was a mark of transcendence.
Some of his personal and professional choices clearly fell on the low end of the spectrum. But more of them tilt the other way. I don't have to forgive him for how he ended his career to appreciate what he did prior to that. Fortune smiles on the prepared and he and his skills were in the right place at the right time. It can be both.
Tschmack posted:That's a great point - BrINT chose his legacy
Time does heal wounds, but I have to admit I'm not sure I will ever totally get over his exit and how HE handled himself in that whole situation. TT and MM took the high road and unfortunately Brent did not.
He was an all time great, but he's no hero or role model in my book. To each their own.
I have really done well improving my life for not holding grudges.
This is one I still can't let go...
Brett tells the audience what they want to hear that casts him in the best light in that situation. Could be a Viking reporter. Packer reporter. NFL reporter. He's mastered it. He really has. And he answers all of them in the down south innocence he's made a killing out of. And somehow he gets a national pass.
Great. Great. Great talent. Transcendent talent. We'll see another player like him because there's going to be farm strong kids with howitzers that just say **** it like Brett did. Bert Jones was Brett Favre only he dealt with Pittsburgh, Oakland, and Miami. ****ty timing Bert.
I don't like Brett because he made him more than what people loved about him without people realizing he was doing it. His gift. Then he pandered to what people wanted to hear.
DH13 posted:.....Some of his personal and professional choices clearly fell on the low end of the spectrum. But more of them tilt the other way. It can be both.
ha...when I read it the first time, I thought it said "low end of the SCROTUM"
It's been interesting and enjoyable watching some of the programs espn has been airing; SB 31 highlights, Gruden's QB Camp, and the like.
I don't know that they reveal anything we didn't know about his career in Green Bay, but it does show And just how damn lucky he really was when he improvised plays, typically relying on pure arm strength to make throws that shouldn't have been completed--yet were.
It's hard not to respect his toughness and will to win, but I was done with Bert after the Giants playoff loss in OT. I'll never forget the look on his face--he did NOT want to be there, and looked like a player who had given up. Had no use for him, and never wanted to see him in a Packers uniform afterward.
I am with you Timmy! It was reported that after Favre acted like that at halftime MM said "if he wasn't Brett fav re I'd bench him". He did the same thing earlier in the year at Chicago. In addition, his unwillingness to "buy into" MM's QB camp & his "it isn't my job to mentor anyone" (just the other day MM said that mentoring was a big part of his program) ,made the Giants game the last straw. I've always maintained that TT got the blame, but it was really MM that wanted Favre out.
You also have to recognize he was blessed with a lot of good coaches - Mariucci, Gruden, Reid, Holmy. Guys that mentored (and in some cases shielded) him.
After reading a "Favre / Rodgers who was better" article which puts their stats very close, other than Ints, I looked at some team stats to compare. What I found is rarely mentioned (god forbid writers would actually dig deep). Favre had 7 "top ten" ranked defenses in his 16 years in GB. Rodgers' has had 2 in his 8 years as a starter.
oldschool:
"Yes...and Lombardi bolted to the Redskins.
So lick his cornhole if you want to...makes just as much sense.
Lombardi chose his legacy."
Makes just as much sense? In other words, you see what Lombardi did as a very close parallel to what Favre did?
First off, Lombardi honestly thought he didn't sufficiently have enough left to coach an NFL team. He was tired and thought it was time.
So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?
Moreover, his wife Marie really did not like Green Bay. She wanted to be in an eastern big city. Washington was a far different choice than was Favre with the Vikings.
I suppose the right tack to make with respect to your post is what others did. It is astonishing to me that you see the two situations as close parallels.
You have got to be kidding me.
One that got me Timmy (and this preceded the Giant game) was a playoff game against the Vikings. The Packers were near the goal line. Favre could easily have run it in, but he threw an INT instead. It looked like he no longer had the will to take a hit with an attempted run and a run was absolutely the correct choice.
I hate to say it, but what a contrast to what Elway did in his SB win against the Pack - and what was Elway at the time, 37 or 38?
FLPACKER posted:I am with you Timmy! It was reported that after Favre acted like that at halftime MM said "if he wasn't Brett fav re I'd bench him". He did the same thing earlier in the year at Chicago. In addition, his unwillingness to "buy into" MM's QB camp & his "it isn't my job to mentor anyone" (just the other day MM said that mentoring was a big part of his program) ,made the Giants game the last straw. I've always maintained that TT got the blame, but it was really MM that wanted Favre out.
Yeah in recent days the news has come out about the phone call between MM and Favre with MM saying "We've moved on." Considering the poor performance in that Giants game and the Bears regular season game earlier in the year which seemed to prove that Favre could no longer excell in cold weather, it was the right move. TT could probably see that too.
FLPACKER posted:After reading a "Favre / Rodgers who was better" article which puts their stats very close, other than Ints, I looked at some team stats to compare. What I found is rarely mentioned (god forbid writers would actually dig deep). Favre had 7 "top ten" ranked defenses in his 16 years in GB. Rodgers' has had 2 in his 8 years as a starter.
Domino effect.
YATittle posted:Yeah in recent days the news has come out about the phone call between MM and Favre with MM saying "We've moved on." Considering the poor performance in that Giants game and the Bears regular season game earlier in the year which seemed to prove that Favre could no longer excell in cold weather, it was the right move. TT could probably see that too.
By that time MM & TT knew what they had in AR. It's a lot easier to make that decision on Favre when you have an AR waiting in the wings. We all lament the Packers losing that NFCCG to NYG. But what if Favre makes a couple better decisions and they had won? Where would AR be now?
If the Packers had won that SB, Favre probably would have ridden off into the sunset and never played those extra three years.
And yet imagine how much easier that decision would have been if MM DID bench Favre at halftime and Rodgers came in to win the game?
FLPACKER posted:....Favre had 7 "top ten" ranked defenses in his 16 years in GB. Rodgers' has had 2 in his 8 years as a starter.
God Bless his soul. RIP Fritz Shurmur!
phaedrus posted:oldschool:
"Yes...and Lombardi bolted to the Redskins.
So lick his cornhole if you want to...makes just as much sense.
Lombardi chose his legacy."
Makes just as much sense? In other words, you see what Lombardi did as a very close parallel to what Favre did?
First off, Lombardi honestly thought he didn't sufficiently have enough left to coach an NFL team. He was tired and thought it was time.
So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?
Moreover, his wife Marie really did not like Green Bay. She wanted to be in an eastern big city. Washington was a far different choice than was Favre with the Vikings.
I suppose the right tack to make with respect to your post is what others did. It is astonishing to me that you see the two situations as close parallels.
You have got to be kidding me.
"So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?"
Yes! and why not?
Bengston went 6-7-1 hardly any better than Rhodes first season at 8-8 and Wolf was just fine in firing him.
If Wolf could do it to Rhodes there is no good reason Lombardi couldn't have done it to Bengston...and maintained his Green Bay legacy...as we expect Favre to do.
The only reason Lombardi's legacy wasn't damaged is that he suddenly died unexpectedly and tragically.
I remember very well when Lombardi bolted to the Redskins...and it was not how you are portraying it. There were very bad feelings...anger...hurt feelings and feelings of "why would you do that'?...why would you tarnish your Green Bay legacy and go to another team? The word "traitor" was not too strong. It was not all sunshine and lollipops..."Oh , Marie needs the big city" That's B.S. she was an alcoholic introvert and it wouldn't have mattered much where she lived by that time...she was in pretty bad shape.
Again...the sudden death of Lombardi is the only reason some people do not know the true feelings and true history surrounding Lombardi leaving Green Bay.
Don't shoot the messenger...I'm just telling you what actually happened back then...not some second hand story people are reading from the ball washing media that wasn't even alive when it happened.
I'm just sayin...it's funny how we give one a free pass but not the other.
If you had been there when it happened you would know the real story is quite a bit different.
Oldschool, you make a shameful suggestion that Favre should die so that we forgive him. You are letting your Favre hate get the better of you.
A lot of GB people said "Where's this loyalty he spoke of so often?"
phaedrus posted:One that got me Timmy (and this preceded the Giant game) was a playoff game against the Vikings. The Packers were near the goal line. Favre could easily have run it in, but he threw an INT instead. It looked like he no longer had the will to take a hit with an attempted run and a run was absolutely the correct choice.
I hope I am recalling the same play as you, but as I remember it, it had broken down and Bert was scrambling. He was nearing the goal line, but wasn't going to make it in. He was way past the line of scrimmage, so throwing a pass wasn't an option...yet he did just that, flipping the ball to the receiver in the end zone, instead of taking a hit from the defender.
If memory is still serving, it seems like it was a 4th down play, so the illegal forward pass penalty was moot, and we turned the ball over on downs.
The thing that pissed me off so much about that play was Bert laughing and smiling after it was over. I guess it was big fun to him...
"This is not Detroit, man! It's the Super Bowl."
One of my favorite calls.
Kevin Greene's speech was OUTSTANDING!!! What a good person!
LOL, Stabler doesn't have any Raider gear in his display locker either!
Who the hell's in charge of of that?
Eddie's bust looks like my cousin vinny.
Am a little nervous about Brett's speech.....it's off the cuff??? Oh yah, everyone will say well, that's Brett. Is that why he's last to talk??
He's the last to talk because he's the biggest draw.
(much to my chagrin)
Dungy doesn't say a word about his son that took his life in 2005.
oldschool posted:phaedrus posted:oldschool:
"Yes...and Lombardi bolted to the Redskins.
So lick his cornhole if you want to...makes just as much sense.
Lombardi chose his legacy."
Makes just as much sense? In other words, you see what Lombardi did as a very close parallel to what Favre did?
First off, Lombardi honestly thought he didn't sufficiently have enough left to coach an NFL team. He was tired and thought it was time.
So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?
Moreover, his wife Marie really did not like Green Bay. She wanted to be in an eastern big city. Washington was a far different choice than was Favre with the Vikings.
I suppose the right tack to make with respect to your post is what others did. It is astonishing to me that you see the two situations as close parallels.
You have got to be kidding me.
"So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?"
Yes! and why not?
Bengston went 6-7-1 hardly any better than Rhodes first season at 8-8 and Wolf was just fine in firing him.
If Wolf could do it to Rhodes there is no good reason Lombardi couldn't have done it to Bengston...and maintained his Green Bay legacy...as we expect Favre to do.
The only reason Lombardi's legacy wasn't damaged is that he suddenly died unexpectedly and tragically.
I remember very well when Lombardi bolted to the Redskins...and it was not how you are portraying it. There were very bad feelings...anger...hurt feelings and feelings of "why would you do that'?...why would you tarnish your Green Bay legacy and go to another team? The word "traitor" was not too strong. It was not all sunshine and lollipops..."Oh , Marie needs the big city" That's B.S. she was an alcoholic introvert and it wouldn't have mattered much where she lived by that time...she was in pretty bad shape.
Again...the sudden death of Lombardi is the only reason some people do not know the true feelings and true history surrounding Lombardi leaving Green Bay.
Don't shoot the messenger...I'm just telling you what actually happened back then...not some second hand story people are reading from the ball washing media that wasn't even alive when it happened.
I'm just sayin...it's funny how we give one a free pass but not the other.
If you had been there when it happened you would know the real story is quite a bit different.
Was Lomabardi not offered 5% of the team as part of the deal to go coach the Redskins! I also do not see the connection! Favre wanted to srick it to the Packers and Lombardi did not have that motivation.
Timmy! posted:phaedrus posted:One that got me Timmy (and this preceded the Giant game) was a playoff game against the Vikings. The Packers were near the goal line. Favre could easily have run it in, but he threw an INT instead. It looked like he no longer had the will to take a hit with an attempted run and a run was absolutely the correct choice.
I hope I am recalling the same play as you, but as I remember it, it had broken down and Bert was scrambling. He was nearing the goal line, but wasn't going to make it in. He was way past the line of scrimmage, so throwing a pass wasn't an option...yet he did just that, flipping the ball to the receiver in the end zone, instead of taking a hit from the defender.
If memory is still serving, it seems like it was a 4th down play, so the illegal forward pass penalty was moot, and we turned the ball over on downs.
The thing that pissed me off so much about that play was Bert laughing and smiling after it was over. I guess it was big fun to him...
Yeah, and I think something else was going on. I am pretty sure there was a 1st down before a TD and had Favre run it, the 1st down was in the bag.
That's how I remember it, but then again, it was a while ago and there are a couple cobwebs in my brain since!
We're splitting hairs now boys. Only consensus is that opinions will never change.
Pack88 posted:oldschool posted:phaedrus posted:oldschool:
"Yes...and Lombardi bolted to the Redskins.
So lick his cornhole if you want to...makes just as much sense.
Lombardi chose his legacy."
Makes just as much sense? In other words, you see what Lombardi did as a very close parallel to what Favre did?
First off, Lombardi honestly thought he didn't sufficiently have enough left to coach an NFL team. He was tired and thought it was time.
So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?
Moreover, his wife Marie really did not like Green Bay. She wanted to be in an eastern big city. Washington was a far different choice than was Favre with the Vikings.
I suppose the right tack to make with respect to your post is what others did. It is astonishing to me that you see the two situations as close parallels.
You have got to be kidding me.
"So, when he realized he still had the fire, what was the context? He had passed the reins to Bengston. What was he supposed to do, fire Bengston and put himself back in?"
Yes! and why not?
Bengston went 6-7-1 hardly any better than Rhodes first season at 8-8 and Wolf was just fine in firing him.
If Wolf could do it to Rhodes there is no good reason Lombardi couldn't have done it to Bengston...and maintained his Green Bay legacy...as we expect Favre to do.
The only reason Lombardi's legacy wasn't damaged is that he suddenly died unexpectedly and tragically.
I remember very well when Lombardi bolted to the Redskins...and it was not how you are portraying it. There were very bad feelings...anger...hurt feelings and feelings of "why would you do that'?...why would you tarnish your Green Bay legacy and go to another team? The word "traitor" was not too strong. It was not all sunshine and lollipops..."Oh , Marie needs the big city" That's B.S. she was an alcoholic introvert and it wouldn't have mattered much where she lived by that time...she was in pretty bad shape.
Again...the sudden death of Lombardi is the only reason some people do not know the true feelings and true history surrounding Lombardi leaving Green Bay.
Don't shoot the messenger...I'm just telling you what actually happened back then...not some second hand story people are reading from the ball washing media that wasn't even alive when it happened.
I'm just sayin...it's funny how we give one a free pass but not the other.
If you had been there when it happened you would know the real story is quite a bit different.
Was Lomabardi not offered 5% of the team as part of the deal to go coach the Redskins! I also do not see the connection! Favre wanted to srick it to the Packers and Lombardi did not have that motivation.
Favre played three more years after MM told him... we are moving on.
I don't believe Lombardi was fired.
Not to say Favre didn't probably deserve it...but he was still able to play. Why can't Favre do it for the money, if Lombardi can?
All together 12 Mill from the Jets and about 28 Million from the Vikings...that's 40 Million more dollars in Favre's pocket.
Brett Favre on why he played in 2010: “First of all, the money”
http://profootballtalk.nbcspor...st-of-all-the-money/
bvan posted:LOL, Stabler doesn't have any Raider gear in his display locker either!
Who the hell's in charge of of that?
His family seem to be on good terms with the Raiders, so that was the NFL's call. Mark Davis isn't very popular at owner's meetings. He stormed out of the press conference the league gave after the Rams move was made official, and a lot of owners aren't happy with his attempt to move to Las Vegas. Wouldn't put it past the league office to omit Raiders memorabilia from Stabler's display as a way of telling the Raiders and Davis how they feel about them.
That's it then. I thought the owners weren't happy with his haircut.
In a cost cutting move the bronze castings were outsourced to India this year...no, no, no, thats not a constipated Mangini...thats Brett Favre.
Looks like Bert from hair to nose, looks like Reggie from nose to chin...
oldschool posted:Favre played three more years after MM told him... we are moving on.
IIRC this was only said when Brett refused to report when told he would have to compete for the starting QB position. Once that happened MM decided to move on with