PackFoo posted:I would say let the Joe Callahan era begin, but I know MM has too much of the old P'burgh 'Cho stored up to willingly admit any sort of defeat. The Sons of the Monongahela ain't built that way.
Pulling Hundley is a lose-lose proposition. On hand, it admits he was rong about him. On the other, if Callahan fails, then he was rong about him too, and there is no plan C.
I say a few more games for hundley...then put Callahan in...
PackerJoe posted:Hundley did exactly what NFL teams would hope a backup quarterback would do in his situation on Monday night. 86.0 quarterback rating, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles. Worst number was 3 sacks but on 2 of them he was moving forward so the three sacks only totaled a loss of 12 yards. He missed some reads but still completed nearly 70% of his passes and was responsible for zero turnovers. That's decent backup quarterback stuff there. Manage the game and don't completely screw it up. The reason the Packers could play .500 football with Matt Flynn a few years ago wasn't because Flynn was a great quarterback, but because he was a solid backup quarterback with a good surrounding cast. That's not the case with Hundley. His running backs aren't as good, the offensive line isn't as good, and the defense can't defend the pass at all (can't cover and can't create pressure, they are just awful). Maybe the Packers could have out-gunned the Lions with the league's best talent at quarterback, but even with an average starting NFL quarterback the Packers had very little chance of winning this game. If the Packers started putting up points then Caldwell would have likely just said "forget the running game" and would have let Stafford/Jones/Tate bomb this defense. Stafford had a QB rating of 132.4 in this ballgame, and there is little doubt the Lions probably could have hung 40+ on the Packers if they would have wanted too.
Also hate the way McCarthy started the game with 4 Aaron Jones runs in the first 11 plays and 8 of those 11 snaps were taken with Hundley under center. The team went down the field and botched the field goal, no fault of the offense. But Jones' fourth carry was as 8:48 of the first quarter. The next time a running back got a handoff (not counting the gadgets to Davis/Cobb) was a Montgomery carry with 2:04 left in the second quarter. So with the backup quarterback in, McCarthy somehow made the decision to go 21+ minutes in the first half without a "traditional" running play. Also, after the first drive Hundley was in the shotgun on 20 of the next 25 plays. Great way to help out a backup quarterback, abandon the running game and completely telegraph to the defense that you want to pass, pass, pass.
I didn't see the game, but based on comments, and reading the box score/seeing highlights, didn't Hundley have 97 yards passing headed into the 4th quarter? I thought most of his yardage came against the Lions second team, as the game was pretty much decided.
What he did, or, more to the point, did not do against the first team D is what worries me going forward. That with two weeks to prepare for the Lion defense.
Was it McCarthy being ultra conservative with the play calling? Maybe. But looking at some earlier posts, Hundley had a few receivers that he completely whiffed on. Rodgers, and most other starting QBs hits Nelson, likely for a score, on the left side of the field.
Kendricks running open at about the 35.
Too many options for a young guy. Which wide open guy should I throw it to?
MM needs to scheme only one guy open at a time.
MJ, what down was that? What was the result of this play?
Got that shot from here and Hundley drops it off to a back (unsure of down). Kruse also points out that what he's showing now is just what his weaknesses were coming out of college.
Pikes Peak posted:Too many options for a young guy. Which wide open guy should I throw it to?
MM needs to scheme only one guy open at a time.
That's amazing. There isn't a single guy who isn't open. The two checkdowns are both open. Kendricks is the safest throw. The seam route on the left side of the field is open as well. The outside receiver on the left would require dropping a throw into a tight window.
I take back what I said--MM is definitely calling new plays and changing up the offense. I never see plays like that with guys open when Rodgers is playing.
The guy on the far left is set up perfect for a back shoulder throw too.
Brett “Hesitation” Hundley. After three years in the NFL, I doubt there will be much of a change.
packaddict posted:MJ, what down was that?
Just noticed the stick says first.
PackerPatrick posted:Brett “Hesitation” Hundley. After three years in the NFL, I doubt there will be much of a change.
Three years riding the pine gives you live game experience?
GBFanForLife posted:PackerPatrick posted:Brett “Hesitation” Hundley. After three years in the NFL, I doubt there will be much of a change.
Three years riding the pine gives you live game experience?
Valid point, except that we are told by the coaching staff that he has had three years of NFL experience and has been ready for some time.
I am a hopeful guy by nature, but I doubt there will be much of an improvement.
Maynard posted:I take back what I said--MM is definitely calling new plays and changing up the offense. I never see plays like that with guys open when Rodgers is playing.
Two things. D's are loading the box to stop the run and leaving their secondary a bit thin - daring 7 to beat them. And WR's actually were getting open with AR as noted earlier in the year (pre-CIN game) when AR was apparently not throwing to his open read but holding the ball and buying time waiting for something bigger to open further downfield. After 80% of our OL went to the tub, he had no choice but to start throwing to what the D was giving - quicker timing routes.
Hungry5 posted:He essentially did not have any game action in pre-season year 2.
Exactly and preseason doesn't mean much. No real playing time against starters or a full defensive scheme.
They're 0-3 since Brett Hundley took over in Week 6 and haven't mustered more than 17 points in any of those games. It's the Packers' longest streak of scoring fewer than 20 points since 2005.
GBFanForLife posted:PackerPatrick posted:Brett “Hesitation” Hundley. After three years in the NFL, I doubt there will be much of a change.
Three years riding the pine gives you live game experience?
I expect him to be competent after 3 years in the QB guru's system & MM telling us "The QB room is fine!"
Everything I've seen from photos & the All-22 tells me different. MM is coaching his ass off offensively. Defense Coaching otoh....
DH13 posted:Maynard posted:I take back what I said--MM is definitely calling new plays and changing up the offense. I never see plays like that with guys open when Rodgers is playing.
Two things. D's are loading the box to stop the run and leaving their secondary a bit thin - daring 7 to beat them. And WR's actually were getting open with AR as noted earlier in the year (pre-CIN game) when AR was apparently not throwing to his open read but holding the ball and buying time waiting for something bigger to open further downfield. After 80% of our OL went to the tub, he had no choice but to start throwing to what the D was giving - quicker timing routes.
No, I agree...I as trying to be sarcastic a bit but probably wasn't obvious!
PackerPatrick posted:GBFanForLife posted:PackerPatrick posted:Brett “Hesitation” Hundley. After three years in the NFL, I doubt there will be much of a change.
Three years riding the pine gives you live game experience?
Valid point, except that we are told by the coaching staff that he has had three years of NFL experience and has been ready for some time.
I am a hopeful guy by nature, but I doubt there will be much of an improvement.
Well, preseason means he would rarely see the full first team defense for other teams. And, we really don't have a first team defense of our own for him to practice against. So.....
Tom details a couple of the plays that have been posted in this thread. Hopefully we'll see some improvement in his work from the pocket tomorrow.
PackerPatrick posted:Brett “Hesitation” Hundley. After three years in the NFL, I doubt there will be much of a change.
I like it, Hezzy.
I saw some great throws today. Maybe we actually need to let the guy progress with some in game experience. I’m guessing many of us blew ass the first couple weeks on the job until we got up to speed on how **** works.
In the words of Mike Holmgren....."I'm calm "
Unrealistic expectations abound.
Tavis Smiley posted:I saw some great throws today. Maybe we actually need to let the guy progress with some in game experience. I’m guessing many of us blew ass the first couple weeks on the job until we got up to speed on how **** works.
Other back-ups don't seem to have his difficulty.
MM being McStupidFace:
The Packers don’t appear poised to give up on Hundley. He’ll have this offseason to prove he learned from his struggles in 2017. McCarthy was damning at the combine, blunt when discussing his poor play.
“Brett Hundley wasn’t ready for what he needed to be ready for,” McCarthy said. “That’s something that we have to learn from, and that stings. That’s something that we should’ve been better prepared for, and I say ‘we’ because it’s not just on Brett.”
Pressed on who was at fault for Hundley’s lack of preparation, McCarthy declined to specifically parse out blame.
But he presumably preferred to go in a different direction with how the position is coached. Alex Van Pelt, once thought to be a burgeoning offensive coordinator candidate, was not retained this offseason. He found shelter with the Cincinnati Bengals, where he’ll be Andy Dalton’s quarterback coach.
The decision to not renew Van Pelt’s contract — irking Rodgers in the process — allowed a new voice to lead the position. The Packers hired Frank Cignetti Jr. as their quarterbacks coach. Offensive coordinator Joe Philbin and pass-game coordinator Jim Hostler also will have input.
“It’s a big room,” McCarthy said. “So we have plenty of seats.”
The hope, McCarthy said, is for Hundley to rebound in 2018. While he acknowledged the young quarterback’s lack of preparation, McCarthy also showed strong support.
“He definitely improved throughout his opportunities there,” McCarthy said. “So I feel very good about that. I believe in Brett Hundley. So I do fully recognize that he has a lot of football in front of him.
“I do believe Brett has a big upside and looking forward to getting back to work with him.”
The Packers can’t count on Hundley reaching his potential, not after last season. So there may be a place for the Benkerts and Laulettas in Green Bay.
Nothing motivates like competition.
“Do I think it’s healthy that players look over their shoulder and are worried about the guy taking their spot?” Gutekunst said. “Sure. No matter what level of sport you’re in, that’s a healthy driver for some guys. You would love them all to be so self-motivated that it didn’t matter but that’s just not the case."
Someone PLEASE beat out Hundley in training camp.
I agree with MM that the upside is there, but the article is correct in pointing out that they can't count on him. He should have been the #3 QB all these years, especially last year. I think he has the tools, it's clearly all mental for him. Can't make the correct decision fast enough and seemed to really be affected by mistakes. It was like he was doing a bad Rodgers impression with all the moving around letting things develop, but he even Rodgers knows when to take the easy completion and when things need to move around a little more. Surprisingly his completion % is just over 60% and it may even be higher if you account for all the drops he had to deal with, so there is a glimmer of hope, but a 3:4 TD to INT ratio and 29 sacks in 11 games is absolutely outrageous. I think he can play, but he has to get his head on straight.
Grave Digger posted:I agree with MM that the upside is there, but the article is correct in pointing out that they can't count on him. He should have been the #3 QB all these years, especially last year. I think he has the tools, it's clearly all mental for him. Can't make the correct decision fast enough and seemed to really be affected by mistakes. It was like he was doing a bad Rodgers impression with all the moving around letting things develop, but he even Rodgers knows when to take the easy completion and when things need to move around a little more. Surprisingly his completion % is just over 60% and it may even be higher if you account for all the drops he had to deal with, so there is a glimmer of hope, but a 3:4 TD to INT ratio and 29 sacks in 11 games is absolutely outrageous. I think he can play, but he has to get his head on straight.
He was pretty much the same player at UCLA that’s the most frustrating part
He's very accurate, just his timing is off
I don't think he was less accurate than most young QBs who are starting for the first time. I still don't think the problem was accuracy, it was always timing. He didn't have the timing with receivers when he first started, which is normal, and later it was just him not pulling the trigger when he needed to. He hit some really accurate passes, I don't consider that to be a major issue for him.
Good gravy. The guy's timing and accuracy was more often off than on. Of course he threw some accurate passes and of course his timing was occasionally on. However, I feel that the 'body of work' we saw last year is enough to know he isn't a backup NFL QB that a Super Bowl contending team needs. I would cut him tomorrow (busy today).
If he is ever needed in a big game again who will be more nervous, BH or MM? Who will have more riding on it?
At some point a player gets a chance to show what he can do. BH had ample time to learn the system and more than enough time to show that he could be an adequate backup. IMO, he failed miserably. His completion % is a result of throwing 5 yard throws on 3rd and 10. He showed no pocket awareness at all and a total lack of vision downfield. I was comfortable with the risk of him last year, but he has no business being in camp this year. They need to spend the $$ on a serviceable backup and bring in an arm or two through the draft to challenge Callahan for #3. Letting MM (indirectly) blame Van Pelt and double down on his mistake is a recipe for disaster again.
Nothing but up for this plug. He can't get any worse.
GratefulPack posted:At some point a player gets a chance to show what he can do. BH had ample time to learn the system and more than enough time to show that he could be an adequate backup. IMO, he failed miserably. His completion % is a result of throwing 5 yard throws on 3rd and 10. He showed no pocket awareness at all and a total lack of vision downfield. I was comfortable with the risk of him last year, but he has no business being in camp this year. They need to spend the $$ on a serviceable backup and bring in an arm or two through the draft to challenge Callahan for #3. Letting MM (indirectly) blame Van Pelt and double down on his mistake is a recipe for disaster again.
We do what we do.
See Capers, Dom.
YATittle posted:GratefulPack posted:At some point a player gets a chance to show what he can do. BH had ample time to learn the system and more than enough time to show that he could be an adequate backup. IMO, he failed miserably. His completion % is a result of throwing 5 yard throws on 3rd and 10. He showed no pocket awareness at all and a total lack of vision downfield. I was comfortable with the risk of him last year, but he has no business being in camp this year. They need to spend the $$ on a serviceable backup and bring in an arm or two through the draft to challenge Callahan for #3. Letting MM (indirectly) blame Van Pelt and double down on his mistake is a recipe for disaster again.
We do what we do.
See Capers, Dom.
You did make me laugh, but the roster is not MM's decision, sometimes you need to save someone from themselves. The first thing Gute should have done is cut Hundley.
Hundley continues to suffer from the same flaws and shortcomings that were in his scouting reports when he came out of UCLA. Pretty evident to me that the QB guru felt he could fix him and he miscalculated badly in a mistake that unfortunately appears to be ongoing.
michiganjoe posted:Hundley continues to suffer from the same flaws and shortcomings that were in his scouting reports when he came out of UCLA. Pretty evident to me that the QB guru felt he could fix him and he miscalculated badly in a mistake that unfortunately appears to be ongoing.
What I don't get is why he can't see what we see. I live in SoCal, used to see Hundley at UCLA, thought he had real potential, but he hasn't fixed any of his flaws. Compare that to AR who was solid in college but had some tendencies that needed to be changed. He from his first action in that Dallas game coming in for Favre didn't look like the same guy he was in college.
Some are teachable, some aren't.
