Bucks New Arena

Combined with the local $$$ and the $200M+ from the new owners and Kohl, it should solidify the deal.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/m...436z1-294697751.html

 

Looks like a stalemate so far..

Closing in on a deal...

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015...-deal.html?referrer=

Deal is pretty much done.  There is a county board meeting on Tuesday where a lot of Bucks fans will be showing up at, but Im assuming even the County Board can't f-this up.... then again, it is a possibility they are completely inept.

 

Hopefully they do this and kill that stupid trolley.

 

Ironically, it was basically Chris Abele and Scott Walker coming together to save basketball and thousands of jobs in Milwaukee.  Tom Barrett was an epic bag of tool and douche during this whole process.

By my count that will be 3 arenas and one trophy.....

The Milwaukee Arena (which became MECCA) was not built exclusively for the Bucks and Bradley Center was basically given to the Bucks for free but was multi purpose as well. The new arena is really the 1st for the Bucks if you consider use and funding involved. 

At least the Bucks have a title.  That's probably 1 more than half the teams in the league

 

If anyone steps up and derails this arena plan it would hardly qualify as a f*ck up.  It would be a huge win for the average citizen and taxpayers in the state of Wisconsin.

arena consensus board in development

Define what exactly a "huge win" is in reference to this issue? 

We are taxed to death in this state but there is economic value to the community to have a pro basketball team

You people are funny.

What do you mean funny?  Like ha ha funny?  Do we make you laugh do we amuse you?

All of the above.

How the hell do you figure this.  You either have done zero reading on this, or you are just ignorant to the fact that public dollars toward anything can actually benefit the state?  The current tab as is will cost the state 4m/ year over 20 years.  Just the state jock tax (conservatively) will generate 6m/yr over the same period (plus an additional 10 years after the debt is paid - where there will be no state burden).  Then add in the ancillary benefit of hundreds of jobs, property development (taxable), and many more intrinsic benefits.. the taxpayer comes out ahead here.  If that is actually what you care about... i highly doubt it though.

Jobs, keeping a pro sports team in Milwaukee, revitalising downtown Milwaukee properly.  All of these things.. are big.

 

 

What a bunch of bull****.

 

State bonding will be at 55 million and then add another 25 million in interest so there is 80 million right off the bat.  Always a smart move to be on the hook for 80 million for a 55 million dollar investment but I guess that's how total goverment debt in this country will get to 21.694 trillion by the end of this year.

 

Then there is the state collecting 4 million per year of uncollected debt for the next 20 years to come up with the next 80 million.  At best there is 80 million dollars that had been allocated to something else that is now getting funneled to this new arena.  At worst the state won't make good on collecting that money, then the state pulls money from aid going to Milwaukee county.  I've read somewhere that a good chunck of this money will come out of payments to victims of crime.  However, in the end it's most likely the 80 million dollars comes out of the pockets of teacher, policemen and firefighters (and other public employees) and ends up in the pockets of billionaire hedge fund managers and millionaire basketball players.

 

Then there is the 93 million dollars in bonds that will be issued by the Wisconsin Center District.  This money will come from fees like room rentals, car rentals, food and beverage fees, etc.  But these funds will not become available until 2028.  Why?  Because they are paying off debt service for the convention center and theater.

 

The state pays off 20 million dollars owed on the Bradley Center.  That's right, the state pays off 20 million dollars owed on the Bradley Center.  This payment is part of this deal but I'm not sure if it really should be attributed to the last terrible arena plan or the current terrible arena plan.

 

Don't forget the city has to build a new parking ramp.  Original estimates for that was 35 million but now they are throwing numbers around like 45 million.

 

So just right off the top we have:

80 million state bonds (55 million + 25 million interest)

80 million in debt collections (money funnelled from somewhere else)

93 million - Wisconsin Center District

20 million - Bradley Center

35 million - parking ramp

Well over 300 million right there with just the highlights.  Actual taxpayer cost is currently estimated to end up in the 370 - 400 million dollar range.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/news/m...427z1-305636241.html

 

But don't forget the government feels bad that the billionaire hedge fund managers might actually have to pay for something.  So here comes the onslaught of gifts and tax breaks.

 

Let's give them 8.9 million dollars of public land for $1.  Looks like the taxpayer contribution just went up 9 million dollars and the billionaire contribution just went down 9 million dollars.

 

http://fox6now.com/2015/06/08/...appy-with-that-plan/

 

Don't forget the 8 million the Bucks are giving Milwaukee for commercial development around the arena, and then Milwaukee will give them the money right back through property tax breaks.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/306538861.html

 

And don't forget the complete property tax dodge on the arena itself.  Try like 325 million dollars over 25 years.  Present day value equals 180 million.

 

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2015...m-for-brewers-bucks/

 

How much were the Bucks owners throwing into this deal?  150 million?  Looks like the taxpayer will pay for EVERYTHING in the end.

 

Then we get the honor of seeing Scooter Walker and Terrible Tom Barrett hand in hand talking about 417 million in jock tax revenues over 20 years and that makes it cheaper to keep the Bucks in the end.  But the state only collected 6.52 million in jock tax revenue related to the Bucks and their opponents in 2014 ( http://www.bizjournals.com/mil...sal-looking-for.html&nbsp ...the 417 million in revenues over 20 years seems to be a bit of a stretch.  And even if they hit that number, as the numbers above show the 417 million likely won't come even close in covering the cost to the taxpayer when looking at dollars and donations and tax breaks.

 

And as far as the revitalization of the downtown Milwaukee neighborhood, yeah it will probably be a nice neighborhood for a few years but again, at what cost.  It was hardly a boom for Kansas City:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/m...362z1-302330651.html

Debt service up to 20 million dollars, tax revenue of 4.7 million dollars, taxpayers screwed in the end.  I guess when developers are allowed to dodge all property taxes, all the taxes generated from those high-paying resturant and retail jobs don't quite add up to the revenue that people like Scooter Walker and Terrible Tom expect.

 

But go ahead Diggr14, talk about how wonderful this is and how the public should get behind this.  Quite honestly the general public in Wisconsin couldn't give a rat's ass about the Bucks.  There will be a deal that goes through which will be a real shame, because the result will be a huge net loss for the taxpayers of Wisconsin and money funneled away from middle-class workers.  Meanwhile the billionaire hedge fund managers will sit back and count their money.  And it's all for a team that most people really don't give a damn about.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2015/04/19/scott-walkers-liberal-math-for-the-milwaukee-bucks-new-arena/

 

Check it out. Why am I not surprised the math doesn't work?

 

Professional sports franchises can be a great boon for any city, as long as the city doesn't get completely screwed. I value the Bucks here in Milwaukee, as a lifetime fan. I just want the arena done the RIGHT way, not the wrong way. 

 

The deal is too big to be F'ing around with. If they, by that I mean our governing officials, screw this up we can kiss this team goodbye. 

 

If we lose the Bucks because of a discrepancy in arena funding, I will be pissed!

The math doesn't work and it won't work regardless of which politician comes up with it.  And it's because of one simple reason, the money isn't there.

 

55 million dollars in bonds will become an 80 million dollar investment after interest.  The money isn't there.

 

Wisconsin Center District cannot start paying for their part of this plan until 2028 because of already existing debt.  The money isn't there.

 

Bradley Center still has 20 million in debt that will be paid off in this plan.

 

There is no RIGHT way to use public money to pay for this arena because the public does not have the money to pay for this arena.

 

I'm fine if Wisconsin loses the Bucks because the people decided it wasn't a good idea to hand over 250 million dollars (which becomes 400 million after interest) to a group of billionaires.  In fact I would be overjoyed.  If this is going to be such an ecomonic boom then I have a suggestion...Edens, Lasry, Dinan can pay for it.  All of it.

 

have you considered the impact that less consensus boards connected to local teams would have on the people?

 

I didn't think so.  

 

 

State has taken Bucks arena deal out of the budget. 

 

Some think it will now have better chance to pass. Drama continues. 

What bums me out is the proposed financing was loaded with fees and extraneous channeling of debt payments that actually did not apply to reducing the debt or payment on interest as structured. That's why it would cost $400M+ instead of $250M. That's some sneaky stuff, and not cool with the stakes as high as they are.

 

These guys want to play with very real possibility of the Bucks fans' team remaining in Wisconsin, or leaving for another city? By messing with the terms in the bill to create a state slush fund, causing delays and uncertainty? Wow.

 

What is their plan should the Bucks walk to another destination because we haven't met the contractual timeline on a new arena?

 

 

The language of the bill, and those schemes put forth jeopardize the fan's interests in their team, and their decades of investing in and following the Bucks and the greater community. Not good.

 

Why can't the debt payments go directly towards paying on the debt? Who thought it was a good idea to make those payments go to the state instead, for use at their own discretion, and not apply directly towards the debt repayment?

 

That's BS. And, I'm a fervent fan who wants to support my team and a new arena.

Hmmm, looks like Scooter and Terrible Tom's 417 million dollar estimate of how much the jock tax would raise was off by just a little bit.  They must have been using the Jethro double-naught method of ciphering.  Looks like it's now down to 299 million.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/news/s...639z1-311749561.html

 

Low estimates of how much this costs the public (without all the gifts and tax breaks already described above) is 370 million.  So at best this plan puts the public 71 million in the hole.  But there are some estimates at high at 488 million, and then when you add the free land and the tax breaks, it's not at all unreasonable to think that this will put the public over 200 million in the hole even after the tax revenue from players is figured into the equation.

 

At least all those high-paying resturant and retail jobs will create so much more tax revenue for the state.  Can anybody give me an update on how much a short-order cook makes these days?

Let them walk to Seattle then

We can then pull a Cleveland Browns and pay through the collective asses to get an "expansion" team back (ie they will suck and it will cost twice as much had we kept them) but don't worry

It's all good

In the future the NBA might be more sustainable than the precious NFL

Cuban knows.  Lasry and Edens know too.

Seattle Pilots has a familiar ring to it......

Hell no... You lose a piece of your identity when you lose your sports franchise. A reason for people to come to Milwaukee. God knows no one would come to Green Bay sans the Packers.

Get the deal done. You can bitch about corporate welfare all day long- you lose a professional sports franchise n today's business climate you lose a lot more than tax revenue...

Good point, Seattle is a dystopian wasteland of pain and suffering and self loathing.  The city is literally in ruins and people are killing themselves in record numbers.

 

So, sure Wisconsin, watch as the education system gets gutted further under Governor Fetal Alcohol Syndrome because of lack of funds or whatever canard he'll trot out, and then agree to fork over your tax money to help pay for a stadium for billionaire owners and millionaires to play a game in a new stadium.  Because the 27 year old stadium just isn't good enough!

 

I mean let's forget that Marc Lasry's net worth is 1.7B and Wesley Edens is 2.5B

 

They can easily afford to fund the entire stadium themselves.   If they move, consider yourself lucky that you weren't the city/state that decided to gut actual programs ans state services and education and instead fleeced the tax payers simply to give billionaires that can clearly afford it free stuff.

 

And, the best part is that the jock tax is eventually going to go away in all likelihood, so much for all those "tax revenues"  

I'd hate to lose the Bucks, but f*ck these greedy, wealthy pigs.

I don't disagree that the corporate greed thing is sickening. But it's how things work in the 21st century.

Since you brought up Seattle- the Seahawks stadium was publicly funded- any uproar about that? How much is Paul Allen worth?

It's said that the deal being brokered in MKE is not a total f-job. It's capped, which is the same thing Allen did in Seattle more or less.

Think the point being made was Seattle didn't crumble into Puget Sound when the Sonics left for OKC. But that's just me spitballing. 

My opinions on the Bucks owners are the exact same as with Allen.  I didn't mean to attack you per se, I just think it's disgusting that cities are footing the bills for these things at the expense of far more critical things.  And its gotten worse as teams are now holding cities hostage.  

 

My main point on Seattle was that even though the Sonics moved, even though there is some frustration still, the world hasn't collapsed upon itself up there.  I was just there last month, and it's a thriving beautiful city that supports the ever living daylights out of the Seahawks and the Sounders, has a amazing art and museum scene, great food, and remains firmly the 2nd best city in the Pacific NW.  #rctid

 

Would it be a bummer that the Bucks leave?  Sure.  Would everyone get over it? Sure.  

This should not come as a surprise to anyone.  Silver made it very clear that Milwaukee needed a new arena to stay in the city and here we are at the brink because our idot politicians can't get their act together.

People want to rant about the budgeting woes but wake up and take a look around the country.  It's happening everywhere and WI is not immune either. 

The Milwaukee politicians in general are a bunch of morons and they are leading the charge to submarine this thing and i have yet to hear one of them come forward with a coherent take on why this is bad for the city or the state.  

All people want to do is pile on Walker but that's an easy excuse.  Do you honestlly think they will repeal spending cuts if the Bucks move?  Get real.

One other thing- as long as we are comparing Seattle to Milwaukee why not compare LA to Milwaukee as well.  The apathy runs deep in that town as well eh?  

For a city like Milwaukee it means more because let's face it - it ain't the emerald city.  I think you are also underestimating the reaction of Seattle losing the Sonics.  They had a very loyal fan following and a lot of fans were crushed when they relocated to OK whatever.

The Bucks have been struggling for the last decade but they have a great history and winning tradition.  It would truly be a shame to see them leave.  I hope they can work this out.

I don't know how a Senator cannot vote to support a $250,000,000 investment in the city of Milwaukee and the State of Wisconsin, knowing the NBA is a worldwide market, and the value will only grow exponentially, as will the tax revenues over time.

 

Add to that all the other enterprises that will benefit the state as well, as a result of this investment.

 

The arena will cost each taxpayer less than one small coffee.

 

If we lose this team as a result of them voting the arena down, there will be hell to pay in the ballot box. Allowing a franchise like this to leave the city would be a severe dereliction of duty.

 

Vote for the arena or lose my vote.

The money was already robbed from education to pay for the wealthy guys' stadium, so what the hell? Keep um!

There are a hell of a lot of roads in Western Wisconsin that would put that $250 million to better use than an arena for Milwaukee.  Most of you forget there is much more to Wisconsin that Milwaukee.   Vote for giving more money to millionaires and lose my vote too. 

And exactly what would be the return of investment for roads in western WI? You can't tax what you don't have, can you?

Link: http://www.bizjournals.com/mil...ba-will.html?ana=twt

Interesting discussion, I follow the Bucks (and NBA) casually.  I can see both sides of the argument.  Ultimately I think Milwaukee is better for having the Bucks, but I can see being pissed about helping the super rich get super richer.  

 

I think the timeline helps Milwaukee though.  The new owners want more than the 25 million return on their investment, that should make them a little more eager to meet the needs of the community.  If the NBA sells the franchise with nothing binding them to Milwaukee, I would wager the price goes up significantly.  Only problem for Milwaukee is the current owners are still much better businessmen than the populace, so they will still likely "win" in this deal.  If Milwaukee wins a championship, perhaps most people won't mind.  

 

But I thought everyone knew better roads were better for business and boost the economy.  

 

 

Yeah, the booming economic district of Western WI. That's what the $250M needs to go to...