I think the Brewers are in pretty good shape but in reality it's like comparing the Vikings and Packers. The Brewers can be competitive but the Cards have the legacy and tradition and rings. I think they also do a better job of drafting and developing players- especially pitchers.
It drives me crazy the Brewers can't seem to beat those guys but with La Russa and Pujols gone it's tough for me to really hate that team. Respect yo
Brewers:
RF Norichika Aoki
SS Jean Segura
LF Ryan Braun
3B Yuniesky Betancourt
2B Rickie Weeks
CF Carlos Gómez
C Martín Maldonado
1B Álex González
RHP Yovani Gallardo
Cardinals:
2B Matt Carpenter
RF Carlos Beltrán
LF Matt Holliday
1B Allen Craig
C Yadier Molina
3B David Freese
CF Jon Jay
SS Pete Kozma
RHP Adam Wainwright
It would be nice to get an aggressive Hank Jr. post now. They will need all the help they can get.
Go Crew!
RF Norichika Aoki
SS Jean Segura
LF Ryan Braun
3B Yuniesky Betancourt
2B Rickie Weeks
CF Carlos Gómez
C Martín Maldonado
1B Álex González
RHP Yovani Gallardo
Cardinals:
2B Matt Carpenter
RF Carlos Beltrán
LF Matt Holliday
1B Allen Craig
C Yadier Molina
3B David Freese
CF Jon Jay
SS Pete Kozma
RHP Adam Wainwright
It would be nice to get an aggressive Hank Jr. post now. They will need all the help they can get.
Go Crew!
I'm worried how short Nori is, thus making him much more likely to be injured.
Let me guess, Pohlad is the cream of the crop.
I'm not sure what you talking about. I mentioned I don't know how one would rate an owner earlier in this discussion.
My point is that Mark A is a helluva owner, IMO, who had a much bigger task in front of him when he bought the team than St. Louie guy did...IMO. So, I suspect one could think he is "better."
1. A laughing stock organization from top to bottom.
2. Not the greatest attendance with a new park.
3. Smallest market in the majors (I think...at least bottom 3).
I agreed that the Dirty Birds are a better organization as a whole...how can one argue that? Look at the W/L records, playoff appearances and championships.
My point is that Mark A is a helluva owner, IMO, who had a much bigger task in front of him when he bought the team than St. Louie guy did...IMO. So, I suspect one could think he is "better."
1. A laughing stock organization from top to bottom.
2. Not the greatest attendance with a new park.
3. Smallest market in the majors (I think...at least bottom 3).
I agreed that the Dirty Birds are a better organization as a whole...how can one argue that? Look at the W/L records, playoff appearances and championships.
Number one and three are relative. Get some measurable data and compare.
I'll take this start
Taller ss would have hit that through the seats.
truth
I'm guessing hoping Maldy would beat out two throws would be greedy
I'm guessing hoping Maldy would beat out two throws would be greedy
I hate the cardinals
This will be the Brewers inning. Or the next one or the next one or just maybe the last one.
damn double play
Aoki throwing darts lately
I guess you can't blame Ron for bunting as often as they are hitting into double plays
****
I loath those bastards.
Still, it would be better to have the NLs leading hitter make the last out rather than a guy hitting .193 or even less.
Still, it would be better to have the NLs leading hitter make the last out rather than a guy hitting .193 or even less.
that is astute.
2nd in the NL in OPS (5th in Runs).
14th in ERA.
And you identify a hitter as the problem.
2nd in the NL in OPS (5th in Runs).
14th in ERA.
And you identify a hitter as the problem.
I hear you loud and clear C-K-B but a manager can not really control how a staff pitches. What he can control is getting the NL leading hitter as many at bats as possible during a game. That is the problem I identify.
Weeks sucks right now, no argument there.
Miller Park has become a launch pad for hitters. Since miller park opened the Brewers have ranked in the bottom half of the league when it comes to ERA. The one year they bucked this trend was 08 when sabathia went unconscious for a few months. 2011 the pitching was decent. Point being, pitchers may never flourish consistently at miller park.
Miller Park is certainly a hitter friendly park, that's for sure.
However, if you look over the years since it has opened how many really good starting pitchers have the Brewers had? Very few. You referenced Sabathia and I'd say he's in that elite class. I'm not sure the Brewers have had 1 other guy in the last 10 years as dominant as he has been over the last decade.
Gallardo is pretty solid but is he elite? Not sure. Lohse is a middle of the rotation type guy and he's probably their 2nd best starter right now. Although, he hasn't gotten much help either (5 quality starts but only has a 1-3 record to show for it).
Estrada is mediocre, Peralta is talented but lacks experience and is wildly inconsistent, and Burgos, well, he's pitched pretty good but he's a triple AAA guy.
What this team has really failed miserably on is drafting and developing really good starting pitching. Look at the team that's kicking our asses right now (STL). All they seem to do is find great pitching year after year. We're basically hoping our best young pitcher in the last 5 years (Peralta) can be the savior and it seems like every season they have a Peralta waiting in the wings.
Until this team can find a way to get more younger arms in the system and then to the majors we'll always be chasing teams like the Cardinals. That has nothing to do with the configuration of Miller Park.
However, if you look over the years since it has opened how many really good starting pitchers have the Brewers had? Very few. You referenced Sabathia and I'd say he's in that elite class. I'm not sure the Brewers have had 1 other guy in the last 10 years as dominant as he has been over the last decade.
Gallardo is pretty solid but is he elite? Not sure. Lohse is a middle of the rotation type guy and he's probably their 2nd best starter right now. Although, he hasn't gotten much help either (5 quality starts but only has a 1-3 record to show for it).
Estrada is mediocre, Peralta is talented but lacks experience and is wildly inconsistent, and Burgos, well, he's pitched pretty good but he's a triple AAA guy.
What this team has really failed miserably on is drafting and developing really good starting pitching. Look at the team that's kicking our asses right now (STL). All they seem to do is find great pitching year after year. We're basically hoping our best young pitcher in the last 5 years (Peralta) can be the savior and it seems like every season they have a Peralta waiting in the wings.
Until this team can find a way to get more younger arms in the system and then to the majors we'll always be chasing teams like the Cardinals. That has nothing to do with the configuration of Miller Park.
quote:2011 the pitching was decent
2011 their bullpen was decent. Not so sure I'd go as far as saying their starting rotation was decent.
The only real difference between 2011 and 2012 was that the bullpen blew like 35 games in 2012. That's probably twice as much as they did in 2011, and the biggest reason to explain the win differential.
In 2011, I believe team ERA was 7th. Which when you compare to other years was drastically different.
Don't forget ZG. He's probably not in sabathia's class but very close.
Don't forget ZG. He's probably not in sabathia's class but very close.
Second only to Wrigley
Not sure if the above stat is an indictment on brewer pitching or exasperating how much balls are flying out of miller park. Probably both.
Not sure if the above stat is an indictment on brewer pitching or exasperating how much balls are flying out of miller park. Probably both.
Actually, really like giving Burgos a chance. He may be more than a AAA pitcher. Looked composed on big stage during WBC. Put it this way, no one will ever know what some of these guys have until they get a chance. Hope Hellweg is next.
Burgos has looked OK at times but then so did Mike Fiers and he got sent back down. Mark Rogers is another one.
Peralta is a legit prospect but I still think he would be better served playing one more year in the minors. As it is he's been graded out by most experts as a B level prospect. I hate having to think they need to get lucky with a Thornburg or Fiers or Burgos or Peralta but that is where they are at.
Seems to me they really found a guy in Jean Segura but they need to strike gold with a pitcher too.
Peralta is a legit prospect but I still think he would be better served playing one more year in the minors. As it is he's been graded out by most experts as a B level prospect. I hate having to think they need to get lucky with a Thornburg or Fiers or Burgos or Peralta but that is where they are at.
Seems to me they really found a guy in Jean Segura but they need to strike gold with a pitcher too.
I blame tuna and his massive head injury
I realize the Cards own us but this is embarrassing 
Pitching, pitching and pitching. The much hated Cards lose an Ace in Chris Carpenter and still have perhaps the best FIVE starters in the league.
Very surprising to lose 5 in a row at home, but, it's a LONG season and we still have a shot to beat out the Reds or Pirates for a wild card. St. Louis will win our division and I hate saying that, but they are really good.
Bring on the Rangers!
Very surprising to lose 5 in a row at home, but, it's a LONG season and we still have a shot to beat out the Reds or Pirates for a wild card. St. Louis will win our division and I hate saying that, but they are really good.
Bring on the Rangers!