@D J posted:

Seems like a bit of a dumdum YouTuber... not that he's entirely wrong, in fact I'd say the Bills did get screwed on those calls.

Anyway, first off on the 4th down call... on the preceding 3rd down it looked like the guy might have just outright gotten the first. It's hard to tell on my YTTV as there's no frame-by-frame, the play/pause is unresponsive, and it's very hard to tell when/if his elbow hits. The initial spot from the ref looks reasonably fair, literally an inch or two short. Then for no reason in particular it seems like the actual spot of the ball ends up being pushed back some inches. Then the center of course moves it up to about where it was initially spotted anyways. Not clear but I think he maybe made it. Bills go fast for the fourth down so there's no replay and the play is quickly forgotten. 1st and 2nd down spots looked good to me.

On fourth down in the reverse angle replay, he may have gotten it on his first effort, but pretty clearly got it on the second effort. That's also the angle the official who spotted what looked like a first down initially had... but he weirdly shifted backwards as he navigated the players as he ran in. And then yeah I guess officials often average out their spots... but this wasn't that kind of spot. Allen's body was completely obscuring the ball to one side. The guy at the top of the screen should have indicated first down right away. He saw it. And the marker is right on the 40. There's no ambiguity, it's an easy call.

As far as the Worthy "catch", I guess I should explain my dumdum comment... the guy completely ignores that there was a declined defensive call on the play that would have resulted in a first down. So, he sounds dumb acting like it prevented a fourth down and extended the possession.

And then he messes up the verbiage when talking about the catch. Granted lots and lots of people do that but it's annoying (Romo does it here too). People keep saying "possession" when they should say "control". Control of the ball, along with getting your feet down for example, is an element of establishing possession. No idea why that's so complicated. The refs always talk about "control" e.g. "did not maintain control." If you didn't maintain "possession" well that's a fumble innit? Pretty distinct concepts.

Anywho, Worthy slams the ball into the ground with one hand kind of guiding it down while pinned to the BUF guy's arm... it definitely moves a bit and most importantly the ground pretty obviously is what lets him get "control", which is the exact thing the ground can't do even under the tyranny of the Bert Emanuel rule. Great work Bert, because you couldn't do the simple job of keeping the ball from hitting the ground we get to deal with this extra bit of BS judgment call idiocy apparently till at least the end of our natural lives.

But fighting a player for control as the ball hits the ground is clearly not control. What are we even talking about here?

@YooperPackfan posted:

That’s because when you get right down to it, defense wins championships

As always, Marv Levy would like a word with you.

The Bills have no one to blame but themselves. First of all KC drops two balls that could have been intercepted on the very first drive. Secondly, KC is driving for another score on their second possession when they have an unforced fumble. Thirdly, Allen fumbles but the ball bounces right back up to him. So three turnover worthy plays that all went the Bills way, which often in close games is enough to tilt the game your way. However the really big mistake the Bills made was one that Romo referenced early in the game. When the Bills starting DB went out with the concussion, Romo said "he was going to be a big part of their game plan to play a lot of man coverage. There is a real drop-off in his replacement, they are going to have to alter their game plan' When they didn't Romo said "I think that is a mistake". Subsequently, every time KC really needed a play, especially the last two first downs, they knew the Bills were in man coverage and schemed guys wide open. This was the first time in the last 29 games that KC has scored 30 points.

Was McDermott asked postgame why he felt it necessary to go for two to tie the game....in the second quarter?

May not have ultimately mattered, but he was chasing the points all night.

@YooperPackfan posted:

Nick Foles, Brad Johnson, Terry Bradshaw, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Peyton Manning in his last Super Bowl all come to mind without thinking too hard

OK. now do the other 40 SBs going back to Bradshaw.

@Boris posted:

This has a chance of being a lower rated Super Bowl but I'm sure we will hear about "record numbers" when it's all over with.

Someone named Mahomes and/or Brady have been in 9 of the last 11 SBs. 

@DH13 posted:

OK. now do the other 40 SBs going back to Bradshaw.

The comment was “not without a top qb” well all that I’m proving here is it can be done and it’s the defense on those particular teams that won it more than the qb

Still wrong.  "it can be done" is not what your argument was.  "Defense wins championships" is not the same as "defenses CAN win championships".

On top of that, your list gets even shorter when you consider how those QB's played through the playoffs and in the SB.

Just off the top of my head, Bradshaw was a very underrated QB, he had an elite deep ball.  Eli played out of his mind in both their SB runs and SBs.

@4 Favre posted:

I'd say the Bills did get screwed on those calls.

But fighting a player for control as the ball hits the ground is clearly not control. What are we even talking about here?

That is an amazing dissertation. I have a summary.

1. Josh got the first down
2. The ball hit the ground while 2 players were fighting for it. It's not a catch but would've been a first down around the 20-25 yard line due to the defensive penalty.

All that being said. Buffalo had their shot & didn't get it done. Football sucks anyway

Eli barely has a .500 record. We had 30 years of top ranked hall of fame qb’s and won a whopping 2 Super Bowls during that time. Let that sink in

Just remember, football is a team game.

@DH13 posted:

Someone named Mahomes and/or Brady have been in 9 of the last 11 SBs.

And the 2 Super Bowls that didn't have Mahomes or Brady in them were with teams that had Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Payton Manning, and Cam Newton in them. 3 Hall of Famers and a former MVP/multi-time Pro Bowler.

@FLPACKER posted:

The Bills have no one to blame but themselves. First of all KC drops two balls that could have been intercepted on the very first drive. Secondly, KC is driving for another score on their second possession when they have an unforced fumble. Thirdly, Allen fumbles but the ball bounces right back up to him. So three turnover worthy plays that all went the Bills way, which often in close games is enough to tilt the game your way. However the really big mistake the Bills made was one that Romo referenced early in the game. When the Bills starting DB went out with the concussion, Romo said "he was going to be a big part of their game plan to play a lot of man coverage. There is a real drop-off in his replacement, they are going to have to alter their game plan' When they didn't Romo said "I think that is a mistake". Subsequently, every time KC really needed a play, especially the last two first downs, they knew the Bills were in man coverage and schemed guys wide open. This was the first time in the last 29 games that KC has scored 30 points.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And regarding that 4th down rush - it's on the Bills to make it clear and it just wasn't. The harping on the refs for the most unclear, impossible to say either way calls is getting old. If you need 1 yard, get 2. Don't get exactly 1 yard b/c no one on Earth can say for sure if the ball got every last centimeter it needed. Don't put the game in the refs hands on these coin flip calls. Bills and Allen deserved to lose.

@DH13 posted:

OK. now do the other 40 SBs going back to Bradshaw.

Here's my subjective list. Basically 75% of the time, a Super Bowl is won by a team with a first-ballot HOF QB.

Super Bowls won with

Top 5 QBs all time 17/58 (29%)

Top 25 (not top 5)/first ballot HOF QB 21/58 (36%)

Another HOF QB, very debatable to be in the top 25, 6/58 (10%)

If you are among the 25% that don't have a HOF QB, it helps to have a first-ballot HOF DL/LB like Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis or the 1986 Bears defense

=================

Super Bowl Winners with QBs in the upper pantheon of QBs (top 5 of all time) 17/58 (29%)

Brady 7, Montana 4, Mahomes 3, Payton Manning 2, Unitas 1

==================

Super Bowl winners with QBs who are first-ballot Hall-of-Famers (top 20-25 QBs all time) 21/58 (36%)

Bradshaw 4, Aikman 3, Starr 2, Staubach 2, Elway 2, Roethlisberger 2, Brees 1, Rodgers 1, Favre 1, Young 1, Warner 1, Len Dawson 1

==================

QBs who are Hall of Famers (or will be) but aren't necessarily first ballot guys 6/58 (10%)

Bob Griese 2, Namath 1, Wilson 1, Stafford 1, Stabler

================================

How did that happen? Defenses were good and/or an otherwise average QB got hot at the right time (14/58, 25%)

Eli Manning 2, Jim Plunkett 2, Theisman 1, Phil Simms 1, Jeff Hostetter 1, Flacco 1, Foles 1, Dilfer 1, Doug Williams 1, Jim McMahon 1, Rypien 1, Brad Johnson 1

So many of these games boil down to teams making plays or not making plays.

For a road team like Buffalo to win, they had to come out and start fast and take the crowd out of it and they didn’t do that.  You also need a break or two and they got one early with the Mahomes fumble.  As it was Buffalo nearly turned the ball over 3-4 times and used up all of their luck.  

Buffalo made a game of it but you knew that in a close matchup the odds clearly favored the Chiefs.  That team just doesn’t beat themselves.  

The good news is we should get a decent matchup in the Super Bowl as these probably were the two best teams remaining.  The bad news is I can’t stand either team.  Oh well, can’t have it all.  

Did the Bills have plenty of time to at least tie it?  I heard Schlereth on Denver radio this morning.  He said on the Kincaid drop play Allen went the wrong way considering the way the O line blocking was set up. And IF he went the right way he had Shakir wide open for at the very least a first down.  I’m not a football savant like many here but if true that says a lot.

Im betting that in a similar situation Pat plays is right.

If Bills had gotten a stop on the last third down it would have ben an interesting decision for Reid. Without gaining a yard it would have been a 53 yard FG. Miss it and you give the Bills the ball at the 43 with around 50 seconds left. And yes I went back and looked at the 4th down play for the Bills , if Allen had looked left to Shakir he'd still be running. It looked like that was the play set up as they had a numbers advantage to that side and the other 3 receivers took the defenders upfield and away. No one within 10 yards of him had he caught it.

@FLPACKER posted:

And yes I went back and looked at the 4th down play for the Bills , if Allen had looked left to Shakir he'd still be running. It looked like that was the play set up as they had a numbers advantage to that side and the other 3 receivers took the defenders upfield and away. No one within 10 yards of him had he caught it.

I had a patient this morning said he read where Jayden Daniels/commanders have a VR training device that they program for. 1.75 times faster to help him process info for game day. I can’t look it up right now but anyone know what they were talking about.

@Tschmack posted:

So many of these games boil down to teams making plays or not making plays.

That team just doesn’t beat themselves.  

Pretty much sums it all up. Especially when the Packers are concerned.

In the end, the Bills just didn't have the smert horses to get the job done. The all-out blitz on the fourth-down play by KC was a gutsy call when they hadn't used it all day. I bet every guy in that KC huddle when that call came in just lit up and wanted to make the play. Allen had no clue it was coming and just heaved up a ball that was dying in air but could/should/maybe have been caught but wasn't. Then the Bills' D gave up the first down on a play that was like candy to Mahomes when he saw the coverage.

The Bills came back and played well and hung in there, but just didn't get the job done. That's sports.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

This is what is maddening for coaches. Spags is getting a lot of love for dialing up this blitz, but in reality Bills OC had the PERFECT call for it. The play may have put them in FG range, or at least well on their way to it, and possibly the go-head TD. However, your veteran QB, who is being touted as the league MVP fucks it up.

@PackerBackerDPM posted:

I had a patient this morning said he read where Jayden Daniels/commanders have a VR training device that they program for. 1.75 times faster to help him process info for game day. I can’t look it up right now but anyone know what they were talking about.

That would seem to be extremely helpful with “slowing the game down” for players, if they can essentially learn to “keep up” with the trainer in the first place.

I thought I read it mentioned in an SI article about Daniels this last weekend.

@FLPACKER posted:

This is what is maddening for coaches. Spags is getting a lot of love for dialing up this blitz, but in reality Bills OC had the PERFECT call for it. The play may have put them in FG range, or at least well on their way to it, and possibly the go-head TD. However, your veteran QB, who is being touted as the league MVP fucks it up.

It also looked like Allen decided pre-snap that he was going to roll right and throw to Kincade or bust.  If he had kept his eyes across the formation he would have seen the left side had no pressure, a lot of open grass and at least one guy wide open (also a receiver somewhere near the left sideline off camera) to convert and probably get out of bounds.  You have to watch the video clip instead of the still shot but he ran to the side of the pressure right after the snap.

Exactly. Makes you wonder what on earth he was thinking? From the receivers actions, to the blocking, to Shakir changing his direction in motion, the play screams that it was designed to go to the left. Why in the world Allen went to his right I guess we'll never know.

I think he went to his right because he had already determined pre-snap that's where he was going to roll out to throw to Kincaid.  He never even turns his head.  Crunch time separates the haves from the have nots.

It's not just GB HOF QB's that force the ball while missing the open guy on 4th-or-die in the playoffs!

@PackerBackerDPM posted:

I had a patient this morning said he read where Jayden Daniels/commanders have a VR training device that they program for. 1.75 times faster to help him process info for game day. I can’t look it up right now but anyone know what they were talking about.

I believe this is the same device they use in testing QBs at the combine. It tests how quickly they read a defense, make a decision, and where they would go, I guess. If I recall, Bryce Young tested off the charts on the machine. I think it's been around a while, but QBs don't want to test at the combine on it for fear of not having good numbers. 

@FLPACKER posted:

This is what is maddening for coaches. Spags is getting a lot of love for dialing up this blitz, but in reality Bills OC had the PERFECT call for it. The play may have put them in FG range, or at least well on their way to it, and possibly the go-head TD. However, your veteran QB, who is being touted as the league MVP fucks it up.

Totally agree. When crunch time really hits, his brain tends to get a bit scrambled. And he goes to his right more often than not.

He is a right handed QB.  Harder roll left and throw.

@Fandame posted:

I believe this is the same device they use in testing QBs at the combine. It tests how quickly they read a defense, make a decision, and where they would go, I guess. If I recall, Bryce Young tested off the charts on the machine. I think it's been around a while, but QBs don't want to test at the combine on it for fear of not having good numbers.

I think you're referring to the S2 Cognition test, which sounds more abstract and done on a laptop, not a VR headset.

Unless they are now doing another test with VR.

I think you're correct, DH. I wouldn't doubt that they now have some sort of VR to test guys, though. It's pretty wild what they can do, and yet they still can't predict success with great success.

Thanks, Yogi.

@DH13 posted:

Thanks, Yogi.

Yer welcome, Boo-boo.

(Yes, I know about Berra, too.)

As we learned just week, because a guy is wide open doesn't mean he will catch the ball.  Mark Andrews could not have been any more wide open and a shorter pass than the one to Shakir would have been.   

Eagles head coach Nick Sirianni LIT UP Chiefs fans after beating them on Monday Night Football (last year). 😂😂

(🎥: @NBCSPhilly) pic.twitter.com/3kWyxqRzj8

— TSN (@TSN_Sports) November 22, 2023

Fuck Siriani and fuck the Eagles and their awful fans. I hope the Chefs streamroll them.

This is Championship.

.

Dam ewe, D J!

I had to click the link, and wound up watching the entire game!
And was glad I did! I wasn't particularly impressed by the film itself, but the condensed game footage was awesome!

Of course, when one watches an old game like that, it's always quite striking to notice the differences between then and now.
I was surprised how much "giving him the business" after a play was over was going on. Guys diving on another player who was down way late. One late hit OOB was pretty bad.
Poor ol' Jimmy took a beating that game. I kept hoping he'd get a shot at Huff; don't know if he ever did, though.
Speaking of, I noticed all the Packers that were injured during the game returned to action. Currie, especially, looked like he had a catastrophic injury on the KO return, and I thought he was toast after that. Nope, back out there kicking ass just a few minutes later. No blue tent needed.

The refs wearing white socks and shoes!

Oh, and open flames along the benches...

Last, but not least, I see the Packers STs sucked ass back then, too...

Thanks for posting!
It's a great way to pass the offseason.

Rereading Lombardi's "Run to Daylight" published in 1963 which covers the 7 days leading up to playing the Lions. Details his insights into the players and the prep that goes into the game.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.