Clay at middle linebacker

Why?

no

Who ya got to play olb?

Let's take on of the better edge rushers in the league and put him inside.

Raji at tailback fixes two problems

Don't worry, Paperboy will be here at any minute to hold your hand.

If Clay replaces Tramon at CB it may help reduce the missed tackles.

I miss the 70's and 80's when expectations were low.

Good. Got all the expected answers. Now ask yourself, how much good did Mathews do locked up with big tackles all season while the game was going on around him, mostly directed at Walden and Hawk? Who had more impact this week, Clay Mathews with one sack or ancient Ray Lewis with 17 tackles? People forget what a good middle linebacker offers a defense, because we haven't had one in so long.

I've thought of this before....our 2 current best players on defense are CM & Raji, in a 3-4 Raji "eats up blockers" , controls his gap,etc., which is not condusive to using his strength, which is an explosive first step, which could be used to be disruptive in a 4-3. CM is a great speed rusher & holds his edge pretty well vs. the run....but teams can double him and / or run the other way, which takes him out of the play. At MLBer in a 4-3 he would be involved in every play, in the middle of the field. Yes we take away our best pass rusher, but we have our best player in a position to be involved in more plays. Capers was quoted as saying that CM could play any defensive position on the field.....just like an OC does, Capers has to ask himself, "how do we get our best players in the best postion to make big plays"....thought of like that...which position gives more opportunity to make plays, outside LBer in a 3-4, or MLBer in a 4-3?

quote:

Originally posted by Hud:
Good. Got all the expected answers. Now ask yourself, how much good did Mathews do locked up with big tackles all season while the game was going on around him, mostly directed at Walden and Hawk? Who had more impact this week, Clay Mathews with one sack or ancient Ray Lewis with 17 tackles? People forget what a good middle linebacker offers a defense, because we haven't had one in so long.

So you think by putting Matthews in the middle the game won't still "go around him" with guys like Walden and Hawk still in the mix? Brilliant line of thinking.

He is best at OLB. Take away the inane reaching argument you just made and look specifically at Matthews and his skillset. ILB? What a ****ing waste.

Talk about "getting cute". Christ, Ray Lewis is a MLB, Matthews is a OLB. Even if Matthews does move inside you have already minimized some of his talents.

Here's a thought, how about having a healthy Bishop and finding another thumper to play next to him?

Moving Clay so he could rush the blind side was jeenyous. He needs to stay where he is.

Find a plugger in the middle not named Clay Mathews.

Moving along....

Nose tackle. Then he is in the center of the field and closer to the ball.

Mason Crosby at MLB would be a better argument.

If you watched the game, Ray Lewis didn't have 17 tackles. He wasn't a 1 man wrecking machine.

Last I heard Lewis had guys like Ellerbe and Suggs playing around him. Yeah, it must be the position.

On the other hand. Things worked out well when Parcell's moved Lawrence Taylor to ILB.

And who are your pass rushers then? It would make more sense to put Perry at ILB.

Lewis falls on a lot of piles.


Draft interior D, keep CM3 outside.

What's inane is to think that Walden and Hawk still should be in the mix. And how exactly do you go around the middle linebacker? In a 4-3 he's free to go after the ball, like Nitschke and Huff and Butkas and Uhrlacher and Lewis... all of whom had more impact than Clay, for all his talent. I may be reaching but I think after the historic failure of our defense, not just in this last game but for the last couple of years, we should be thinking where our best players are best served. And what in Clay Mathews "skill set" disqualifies him from playing middle linebacker?

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
He is best at OLB. Take away the inane reaching argument you just made and look specifically at Matthews and his skillset. ILB? What a ****ing waste.

so they changed to a 4-3? Who knew.

Well, Clay did get some good pressures up the middle on stunts. I could see him coming on delayed blitzes from the middle and with his speed be almost unstoppable. It is difficult to see him locked up with the other guys' best tackle and Clay is too light to do much. Does anyone have any info on from where Clay's sacks have come from, over LT? Middle? Were they stunts or rushes from his side?

quote:

Originally posted by Hud:
What's inane is to think that Walden and Hawk still should be in the mix. And how exactly do you go around the middle linebacker?

So drafting great passs rushers is really easy but finding a good inside linebacker is almost impossible?

Moving Matthews to the middle is pure stupidity. Not drafting/finding better linebackers to fill the other spots is a failure. Why make the good you have suck also?

quote:

Originally posted by Hud:
What's inane is to think that Walden and Hawk still should be in the mix.

No ****. How exactly does that have anything to do with putting Matthews inside as a fix? If Hawk is still on the team are you going to put him outside? WTF.

quote:

And how exactly do you go around the middle linebacker? In a 4-3 he's free to go after the ball, like Nitschke and Huff and Butkas and Uhrlacher and Lewis... all of whom had more impact than Clay, for all his talent. I may be reaching but I think after the historic failure of our defense, not just in this last game but for the last couple of years, we should be thinking where our best players are best served. And what in Clay Mathews "skill set" disqualifies him from playing middle linebacker?

Last time I checked slick they are still playing a 3-4. Even if they switched to a 4-3 are you going to put Bishop on the outside? Again, WTF.

Hate to burst your bubble but "we" don't decide anything. If you want to go on fantastic flights of fancy knock yourself out.

So let's delve farther shall we? Let's take Perry and Matthews. Perry, a 4-3 end who is strong as hell and more of a thumper. Yet, you want to take Matthews who is a exceptionally fluid LB with great hand fighting skills, speed and coverage skills and put him on the inside?

I have no doubt Matthews would play well where ever you put him but you are still weakening another position where the fix is finding a player to go along with Bishop.

quote:

Originally posted by Hud:
And what in Clay Mathews "skill set" disqualifies him from playing middle linebacker?

His greatest asset is rushing the passer. Why would you pull him back from that?

Clearly you don't understand the value of a sack.

Sacks? How gauche! He has one of these.

OLB's are Clay and Perry. ILB's are Bishop and ???. Finding an upgrade for Hawk is the key. Might turn out that Manning is that guy.

Clay is double teamed 40% to 50% of the time. 11 sacks this year while missing 4 weeks. 2012 probably would have been a career year in sacks if he plays 16 games. He's not moving anywhere.

Get a really good DT to go with Raji to make teams pay for doubling Clay, or force them to reduce the number of times they double him.

quote:

Originally posted by Fandame:
Well, Clay did get some good pressures up the middle on stunts. I could see him coming on delayed blitzes from the middle and with his speed be almost unstoppable. It is difficult to see him locked up with the other guys' best tackle and Clay is too light to do much. Does anyone have any info on from where Clay's sacks have come from, over LT? Middle? Were they stunts or rushes from his side?

You think he's going to breeze by the LT every time? Mike Neal did pretty well on some stunts with Clay, let's put him at OLB.

I will with hold judgement on this jeenious plan until I know what pakrzboi and his ten disciples think

every day I get a subtle reminder of what great job security I have

Jesus, I hate playoff losses.

quote:

Originally posted by Iowacheese:
I will with hold judgement on this jeenious plan until I know what pakrzboi and his ten disciples think

That only makes 11. If you need 12 Impact Players, wouldn't you need 12 impact posters?

Be nice if you made more sense, Slick. If Hawk isn't "in the mix" than why would you think I'd suggest putting him outside? I'm for putting him outside the gates of Lambeau. And you're right, slick, they are playing a 3-4. How's that worked out? I know, a Super Bowl and some playoff appearances. Maybe that has to do with having an all time great qb. Be nice to give him a defense before he's using a walker. Brady may soon be going to his 6th SB. How confident do you feel right now that Rodgers will make it to his second? Perry did little at outside linebacker. Looks and plays more like a DE. Bishop we can only hope will be back to what he was, but even at his best he doesn't have the "skill set"that Mathews does. I doubt this "flight of fancy" I posited will actually ever happen, doubt even that MM will fire Capers, as he should, but I still think it's worth discussing, as we are.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:

quote:

Originally posted by Hud:
What's inane is to think that Walden and Hawk still should be in the mix.

No ****. How exactly does that have anything to do with putting Matthews inside as a fix? If Hawk is still on the team are you going to put him outside? WTF.

quote:

And how exactly do you go around the middle linebacker? In a 4-3 he's free to go after the ball, like Nitschke and Huff and Butkas and Uhrlacher and Lewis... all of whom had more impact than Clay, for all his talent. I may be reaching but I think after the historic failure of our defense, not just in this last game but for the last couple of years, we should be thinking where our best players are best served. And what in Clay Mathews "skill set" disqualifies him from playing middle linebacker?

Last time I checked slick they are still playing a 3-4. Even if they switched to a 4-3 are you going to put Bishop on the outside? Again, WTF.

Hate to burst your bubble but "we" don't decide anything. If you want to go on fantastic flights of fancy knock yourself out.

So let's delve farther shall we? Let's take Perry and Matthews. Perry, a 4-3 end who is strong as hell and more of a thumper. Yet, you want to take Matthews who is a exceptionally fluid LB with great hand fighting skills, speed and coverage skills and put him on the inside?

I have no doubt Matthews would play well where ever you put him but you are still weakening another position where the fix is finding a player to go along with Bishop.

quote:

Originally posted by GBFanForLife:

quote:

Originally posted by Iowacheese:
I will with hold judgement on this jeenious plan until I know what pakrzboi and his ten disciples think

That only makes 11. If you need 12 Impact Players, wouldn't you need 12 impact posters?

only if they are going to hell.

Good catch on my fuzzy math

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
And who are your pass rushers then? It would make more sense to put Perry at ILB.

AJ Hawk. DUH!

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Nose tackle. Then he is in the center of the field and closer to the ball.

EXACTLY!

quote:

That only makes 11. If you need 12 Impact Players, wouldn't you need 12 impact posters?

Chuck Bednarik played both sides of the ball, right? Packers need a center, right? Get this slacker Mathews to man up and be a complete player.

By moving CMIII inside, you weaken OLB and OLB is much more difficult position to find an all-pro, especially when it comes to pass rushing.

This would be like asking Reggie White to play nose tackle and take up 2 blockers every play b/c your nose tackle isn't very good. Yes, Reggie could have played nose tackle very well but it's not a best use of his ability and by moving him, you create a huge hole that is much more difficult to fill (compared to nose tackle). Same applies to moving CMIII to ILB (and yes, i know CMIII isn't Reggie, but thought it was a fitting analogy).

Besides the reality of taking away a strength (pass rush), CMIII is not built for middle linebacker. He would get eaten up by interior linemen. His main asset is speed, he will never be a thumper like Urlacher or Lewis....or Bishop.