College Football Players starting a Union

We could really use someone to step up right now and do the right thing

JJSD, even so, I'd think that is more of a beef between the universities and the NCAA, not the students and the NCAA.

It is the universities' product that is not being fully compensated. As somebody posted above, when students create marketable products in science and technology, the university usually holds all rights to the product and the profits, not the student.

And that beef it getting stinkier, which is why more talk is surfacing about the 'big' schools breaking off from the NCAA.  I agree, though, that even if that happened it would not solve the problem such as it is.

The bottom line for me is that they should be given a reasonable stipend, but not necessarily be paid salaries.  Someone above posted that these folks should just 'live like normal college students and get a job' or something like that.  Guess what?  When I was in school, scholarship athletes were not allowed to work during the school year.  Only recently did the NCAA 'allow' them to work, but they can only earn $2,000 above their scholarship benefit during the school year.  

Give them stipends and don't force them to go to college at all if they want to try to go right to the pros.  

... and not the NCAA. Which kinds of aligns to the OP from JJSD where he mentioned the bigger schools forming their own org.

That's fine, but do you really want college football run like the science and technology departments? That is where I have an issue with the NCAA, personally. If the colleges don't want to pay the players, fine! Why though, do they stop the players from acquiring funding outside of the athletic institutions? If the kid in the research department starts their own project and someone pays a bundle for their research do the schools cut them off? NO! Allow others to pay the players.

This whole union discussion is why I am against a college playoff system. College are asking so much of there student athletes that they have little time to study. What good is a scholarship if the recipient has not time to go to school or there is not enough study time to get a degree worth the paper it is printed on.

 Those people on the NCAA "board" gots to get paid....know what I'm sayin'?

You're right. Any extra money should go to let's say under-privileged students for a scholarship to...you know....actually learn something & get a job. Think that's happening?  

So no Div I, II, or III playoffs anymore?

The smaller schools don't seem to have any problem hosting playoffs. Why are the D1A kids such sacred cows?

Because they are all better looking than you

They should be able to earn outside cash;

I donated plasma at $ 14/ pop and there were student athletes in there doing the same thing. ( not football players)

Well, I guess I would counter that if a university is punished for not educating kids, perhaps the schools would take a harder look at who they are letting in to play sports.

The spirit of my comment though, is directed to the true victims of college sports today. For the no doubt prospects, of course there's a bit of exploitation going on here, but those guys are going to get paid. Even the ones who get injured in NCAA likely have some sort of insurance policy worth money.

The real victims are the guys who aren't good enough to be pros and the coahes/university don't care about them once they can't contribute. It could be the players that are recruited to play at Alabama, don't develop, and then have their scholarship yanked for the next guy. Or it could be the hoops player that gives four years, but the coaches have them taking a minimal course load and they leave without a diploma.

Those are the real problems, in my opinion. And paying athletes doesn't make it right that they are brought to these institutions with incredible opportunity and then discarded once they stop producing.

No, not in the eyes of a large chunk of society today. It's the fault of the teachers, it's the fault of the school systems, it's the fault of the curriculum, it's the fault of parents, it's the fault of anyone and everyone other than the student. Bullskit. It's time to put a large chunk of the onus on students. If they are on scholarship, they should go to class and take responsibility for their education or give the scholarship to a kid who would use it. Yes, you may have to further crack down on coaches who persist in making a kid feel like they need to spend 40+ hours a week watching film in addition to practices and other mandatory sessions. The athletes are getting everything free, but are one blown-up body part or one lack of athleticism from having to use that degree. So give them the time and encouragement to pursue their degree.

The NCAA is a huge corporation that is nothing more than an overseer/developer of "student" athletes for the pros. If anything, D3 or NAIA probably has kept sports in a better perspective.

Man.

Great topic and I'm completely on the fence on additional remuneration.

I played D1 soccer at UW-Milwaukee and was scholarship my last two years. Since tuition was $445/semester and I had like 25 chicks come to see me at each game paying $5.00 per ticket, I was revenue neutral to the university.

....at least that's how I remember it. 

...and does anybody find it ironic that Northwestern players are forming a union----they'll be breaking unions when they get into their professions. 

Not necessarily.  I hear Northwestern has a really good welding certificate program.

Yeah, but that's generally reserved for the guys who washed out of the plumbing program.

Pun intended.

What is the graduation rate of the smaller schools? Same problem, colleges expect a lot in return for there scholarships, coaching jobs depend on the team winning, if a kid spends too much time studying then coaches will pressure them to study less, if the kid insist on studying or taking a too hard of a class schedule they will lose there scholarship.  It happen to my brother at ASU, he was good but not NFL good. Instead of football he choice an EE degree.

Why in heck do college fans need a national championship, for their own gratification? These are kids trying to build their future, for these kids job #1 is to graduate. The simple fact that someone thinks a union is need is a strong indicator that the whole college sports thing is gone off the deep end.

I Know I have argue against union and that the kids are exploited, the solution is not to turn college kids into professional athlete but to change the whole system. Fans of college sports need to stop being selfish  and start thinking what is the greater good for the college kids.

To me, the answer is simple. Don't allow athletic scholarships.

Public universities don't exist for the purposes of providing sports programs, a fact that seems to be lost on too many people.

If true amateur sports are going the way of the dodo, so be it. If 'student-athletes' want to get paid, organize, and bargain for rights and benefits, let 'em do it on their own dime.

Tim you made my point much better then I did, Thank you.

Thanks for wrecking my Saturday afternoons, hater.

Here's my favorite graphic..... 

Totally agree, but the colleges fear the best athletes will move on to minor league systems. They want their cake and, by golly, no one can stop them from eating it too.

Remember the old saying death and taxes. If college students become unionize and get paid they will be taxed. Their scholarship will be imputed as income, the tax bill on the scholarship alone could be north of 15k a year. That is the same problem with raising the minimum wage from 7.50 to 15.00 and hour, tax bracket  creep only the government makes out with these schemes.

Yes and no,

Some kids are granted the gift of intellect and some get less intellect but more athleticism. College is there to prepare them for a future and if athletics is really their future, then the colleges need to develop those skills too.

The fact that a college is earning TV money from sports doesn't change a thing imo. The student athletes are not an aggrieved party simply because somebody else is making money. What a wonderful opportunity to teach them how about life works

Life isn't always fair, but it is equitable

Low cost/free education at an institute you might not merit based on academics

( which speaks to the point Rockin Robin made above)

High-end coaching & training

Free gear; enough to outfit an entire wardrobe

publicity and the chance to play in front of millions

Increased sex opportunities both in quantity and quality

Just toss in a little more $$ on a stipend and they should be all set

But do not pay them for their services.

Ahh yes, I forgot to add high end tail to my list of free things the athletes were provided.

Really? That's sucks. I got neither. Who do I talk to about this miscarriage of justice?

BTW, you get what you fight for. Let's see what the colleges do when the kids form a group to reject the current system. I suspect we would quickly find out what they are worth.

You were given a rapier wit ? You used to be somebody around here when your post count was showing. Now, you're japf with a tan.

I think it would really shake some Ivory Towers if these kids tore down the current system, but there are always unintended consequences . I am always reluctant to let the inmates run the asylum and those fat cats at the top aren't going down without a fight.

I wish them luck in their endeavor, this country has a long history of student activists fighting to stop The Man from keeping them down.

Don't let Henry find out.

But goalline has this going for himself:  Community Rank #7 

That just means you are more rank than others in the Community.

El-Ka-Bong won't like your post. Community Rank #2

So, . . . if, in essence the players need a union to "negotiate" their "conditions," (in other words PAY), it seems to me that the IRS and the state departments of revenue (or whatever they're called) should be collecting tax from them on the value of what they're receiving.  Right?

When I think about what it costs to attend college these days, that could mean a pretty hefty tax bill that these kids might have to be paying.

Maybe they would be smart to stop looking a gift horse in the mouth, shut up and be thankful that (regardless of whether the schools make money on them) someone is willing to offer them an education and perhaps a future outside of sports in return for their athletic performances for four years.

Just maybe . . . . .

Stevie, 

Part of the issue is the players have virtually no say in anything when it comes to their situation.  Take for example, a "student athlete" who gets a 4 year scholarship to XX University.  He gets red shirted the first year, the second year he gets some playing time, his 3rd year he suffers a bad injury and the school yanks his scholarship since he won't be able to help the athletic team achieve the goals, and that scholarship goes to someone else.  There are no guaranteed scholarships, this happens quite a bit.  Look at the high school FB signings in the $EC.  70-80 scholarships, but they sign 20-30 kids every year (oversigning), in hopes to keep them away from the rivals or to "maybe offer them a scholarship" if they walk-on one year.    

Furthermore, what happens when coach Y recruits that player, and then takes off to another school or gets fired, the student athlete has to go through hoops to try and transfer.  These are the situations I would imagine that this "union" would try and alleviate.  Coaches move all the time, that affects "student athletes", while a "student athlete" wanting to transfer, and its like moving heaven and earth.  

There are 6 guys ahead of me? See? That's why we need reparations.

I see your points, Russ.  However (and I realize this is most likely expecting too much), it seems to me that the issues like the ones you raised are things that the NCAA ought to be dealing with; not each individual school and a "union."  Of course, I suppose I'm showing my "longevity"when I say that I think "student-athletes" ought to be just that; students and athletes, and they should not be given the privilege of going to a college or university to hone their athletic skills for a year or two and then take off for pro ball somewhere.  If they do, I think they should have to reimburse the school for the cost of their tuition, room and board, and perhaps some agreed-upon-up-front charges for the athletic instruction they were given.  Obviously, I have a lot more empathy for the schools in this regard than I do the kids.  I just think that our value system has become totally out of whack, and this is just one more example of it.  Almost makes me glad that I'm past the halfway point of my life.

Well, if the IRS steps into the fray and starts collecting taxes, thus lowering the paycheck of the unionized athletes, think of the sticker shock they will have when they also pay union dues on top of taxes. It's a huge chunk ($164 and change) out of my paycheck every two weeks.

Do you think the university would also start charging them for health/disability/dental insurance?