Desmond Bishop/AJ Hawk vs Nick Barnett/Brandon Chillar

quote:

Originally posted by PackerHawk:
There is no question this defense is better since Barnett went out and Bishop replaced him.

It's impossible to argue with the results on the field. For whatever reason, Bishop's presence has also appeared to have elevated the play of Hawk.

Wayne Simmons was a total dirtbag, but he was a good LB and a better athlete than Bishop. Not that it matters now, but if given the choice I'd resign Bishop and let Barnett and Hawk walk unless they were both willing to come back at a greatly reduced price.

quote:

Originally posted by PackerHawk:
He's closer to Wayne Simmons than Bernardo Harris.

There is no question this defense is better since Barnett went out and Bishop replaced him.

Simmons was a great athlete and much better in space but I can see the comparison from the standpoint of being hitters and agressive.

The defense is playing well, I'm not denying that, and Bishop is playing far better than expected (and Hawk seems to finally be "getting it" but his role has also expanded). But Barnett was playing danged good ball before his injury and what the defense does is very interesting concerning the changes they've made with the injuries to Barnett and Chillar. Collins especially, and to an extent Woodson have had their roles change to where they aren't the playmakers they have been.

For instance, last year Woodson had 9 picks, 2 sacks, Collins had 6 picks and a sack and the team had 37 and 30 respectively. In '08 each had 7 picks and Woodson added 3 sacks.

This year Woodson has 2 picks and 1 sack, Collins has 3 and none. As a team they only have 22 picks this year. That's down 15, which is huge. On the plus side, Raji, Mathews and Jenkins have all upped their sack totals but even with the added pressure the playmaking defensive backs haven't had the chance to make their plays like they have been.

Maybe the defense needed to change and Collins and Woodson not be in as versatile a position. But that's a goodly number of turnovers the Packers haven't gotten this year that were there before. Barnett and Chillar gave them more versatility.

The questions become....

How much is the defensive improvement in scoring allowed on Hawk & Bishop vs. the scheme change and other players stepping up?

Are they getting a contract year boost and will their demands be ridiculous?

Is Barnett (or/and Chillar) wearing down physically?

Is the Bishop love more Ruvell Martin and the fan bagging of Barnett, Colledge, etc. just displaced backup QB love so many other fanbases experience and we haven't really had for 20 years?

I thought Bishop was nothing. I'm very happy to be proven wrong. I think Dom & probably more so Winston Moss have a lot to do with his rapid development.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Is the Bishop love more Ruvell Martin and the fan bagging of Barnett, Colledge, etc. just displaced backup QB love so many other fanbases experience and we haven't really had for 20 years?

No.

pseudo-intellectuals make me giggle.

It always amazes me me reading threads like how:

1. Really really football stupid a couple of posters are.

2. How the same posters can be shone just how stupid they are and they just keep plugging along.

3. I have to equate the Bishop=Harris comment to the Favre is smarter than Starr, because he skipped training camp.

4. I swear some fools just enjoy being made to look like a fool.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Barnett going down had ripples across the defense, all the way out to Woodson.

I agree with this statement, but probably not the way you meant it. With Barnett out, Capers has changed his game and the defense has gotten better.

quote:

Originally posted by oldnavy:
2. How the same posters can be shone just how stupid they are and they just keep plugging along.

Agreed shone and shone again. dum dums

Some are more nefarious for it than others.

quote:

Some are more nefarious for it than others.

Oh you contrarion you.

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:

I agree with this statement, but probably not the way you meant it. With Barnett out, Capers has changed his game and the defense has gotten better.

There is a lot of difference between last years defense and this year. Caper's and the other defensive coaches made that perfectly clear this training camp that they were going to be able to do more things this year being in the 2nd year of the defense. It's not just injuries why were seeing different looks this year.

quote:

For instance, last year Woodson had 9 picks, 2 sacks, Collins had 6 picks and a sack and the team had 37 and 30 respectively. In '08 each had 7 picks and Woodson added 3 sacks.

This year Woodson has 2 picks and 1 sack, Collins has 3 and none. As a team they only have 22 picks this year. That's down 15, which is huge. On the plus side, Raji, Mathews and Jenkins have all upped their sack totals but even with the added pressure the playmaking defensive backs haven't had the chance to make their plays like they have been.

And they CAUGHT everything last year. Woodson has dropped at least 4 interceptions this year.

Collins has TWO taken away on penalties vs the Bears and dropped a sure pick on Sunday.

To argue the mere fact on interception comparions is foolish because they have been in position to make plays but haven't like last year.

Just because Barnett and Chillar are better individual players than Bishop and Hawk doesn't mean the former two make the defense better than the latter two.

For reasons that we probably don't understand, the defense has been better with Hawk and Bishop. I don't know how much further you need to go in the analysis.

quote:

Originally posted by TD:

And they CAUGHT everything last year. Woodson has dropped at least 4 interceptions this year.

Collins has TWO taken away on penalties vs the Bears and dropped a sure pick on Sunday.

... they have been in position to make plays but haven't like last year.

Agreed. The DB's have had iron hands as of late. However, I think that we have had several defensive players playing through significant injuries and that's a big part of it. (Especially when talking about Collins and Woodson.)

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Barnett going down had ripples across the defense, all the way out to Woodson.

I agree with this statement, but probably not the way you meant it. With Barnett out, Capers has changed his game and the defense has gotten better.

Actually I do agree with this. I don't agree it was because Barnett wasn't good or was the "problem" but fully acknowledge Capers has had to rethink things and has had good results. I'm not ready to say Barnett couldn't adapt to the new wrinkles Capers has put in. The defense is now almost two years in to the new scheme too.

quote:

Originally posted by oldnavy:
It always amazes me....

It always amazes me how a difference of opinion makes some people so irrational and irate.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:

quote:

Originally posted by oldnavy:
It always amazes me....

It always amazes me how a difference of opinion makes some people so irrational and irate.

I doubt you can be amazed, I think it would require some degree of intelligence on you part, something you have shone repeatedly you are lacking in.

Yet I'm not the one making childish attacks.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:

quote:

Originally posted by oldnavy:
It always amazes me....

It always amazes me how a difference of opinion makes some people so irrational and irate.

Agreed. We should be able to debate here without the personal attacks. (although I'm pretty much used to it by now)

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Yet I'm not the one making childish attacks.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:


I'll try to keep this really simple so maybe you can keep up.

You can never have enough good LB in the 3-4 defense. Bishop and Hawk have proven to be a better combo then Barnett, Chillar. Restructure Hawk's contract. Resign Bishop. Release or reschedule Barnett and Chillar's deals.

Teddy and Mike both burned a few bridges with both Bish and Hawk this year and in the past.


Uncle Ted has some work to do to get them both to fall into place like he wants. Although, Hawk is still under contract, but the leverage there is very small since dude has a 10M price tag. However, a nice extension with guaranteed money can change minds. Hopefully, Bishop is back - but i see that situation as being a little tougher. I'd like to see it get done. I really think Barnett is not as effective.

Maybe Uncle Ted thinks his nephew BJ is so good he can play lesser tallants at LB.

Well like another TT first round pick with similar initials, Hawk has proven to be a flaming bust.

nephew BJ needs to make more of an impact before he is invited to next Christmas as Uncle Ted's. Being on the ass end of rush D has a lot to do with nephew BJ's average to worse performance this year. I still can't believe you homers can't see that he is taking tons of plays off. He's the 2010 version of Clet Hunt.

I can't see what you see but I can see what you are.

sez the 2010 version of icon.

Keep diving for those pearls of wisdom rainbow diggy.

So 15.8 pts/G is the back door?

quote:

to worse performance this year.

You said he sucked last year. Can you make up your mind? Bi-polardiggy.

He sucked last year too. Correct me if im wrong oh timberlake.. but he didnt play for a good chunk of the year... and, didnt start most games + Pickett played nose.


Again, when he improves I will acknowledge it. But he is a big reason why this defense can't stop anyone on the ground. I know you don't see what I see, but I watch other positions other than the QB. Amazing - try it sometime.

quote:

Originally posted by Shoeless Joe:

I don't even wanna know what type of search you did and what type of results came up when you found that photo.

He didn't have to. pablo likes to put self-portraits on Facebook without any kind of privacy settings.

quote:

Originally posted by Diggr14:
He sucked last year too. Correct me if im wrong oh timberlake.. but he didnt play for a good chunk of the year... and, didnt start most games + Pickett played nose.


Again, when he improves I will acknowledge it. But he is a big reason why this defense can't stop anyone on the ground. I know you don't see what I see, but I watch other positions other than the QB. Amazing - try it sometime.

Correct you if you are WRONG? Well, Raji did play in 14 games last year! So was that a good chunk or two games?
More Diggy pulling crap out of his arse.

Can't stop anyone? They are 4th in rushing TD's allowed at 6 total. Jenkins played with one arm. Neal was hurt most of the year. Pickett missed time with an ankle.

You said you watch more than the QB, so how could you miss Raji playing in only 14 games last year. Failure again by diggs. Just more continual stooge time.

By the end of the season next year the consensus will be that Raji is the best NT in the game.

quote:

but I watch other positions other than the QB. Amazing - try it sometime.

full of self-righteous crap is no way to go thru life.
anyway, this game is far too tired for me. I quit. Enjoy your delusions.

quote:

Originally posted by Diggr14:
I still can't believe you homers can't see that he is taking tons of plays off. He's the 2010 version of Clet Hunt.

Damn the Man! I mean their just not dropping Bishop into coverage much

Shoeless Joe....

Good to see Diggr sticking to his meme. Great way to kickoff 2011

6.5 sacks at NT and he sucks and takes plays off. Priceless!

FYI, I don't look at anything except the football when I'm watching

Diggr, it's killing you that TT is awesome isn't it?