Desmond Bishop On Our Defense

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Article is about the 'toughness" Bishop brings to the defesne & I think this is what he is referring to when he says 'mindset"

packers were unfortunately atrocious in 2011 when he played. sure he is a good player, but not a difference maker.

So you are blaming the totally bad D in 2011 on the fact that Bishop played that year and since the D was statistically better in 2012 and Bishop did not play this is the reason. Unreal. I hope you forgot this:

Just getting Bishop back won't fix the linebackers/defense. Even if Bishop plays well that's only 50% of the group that's worth more than a warm bucket of spit. His speed deficiency needs to be covered but he brings more to the table than any LB not named Matthews.

i think getting our best linebacker back from injury will help the defense.

The "best"? I think someone else has something to say about that...

in no way i am suggesting that a healthy bishop would be detrimental to the defense. but, even with him, there is a glaring weakness in pass coverage. my interpretation is that bishop is talented, but not talented enough to make up for playing alongside hawk. although hawk seems to be a very nice person, the defense will not be elite as long as he remains the starter.

the other problems that has been frequently mentioned is health. the packers need to be granted a roster exemption of 5 players to even be competitive it seems. how the niners are able to play bowman and willis together for 90% of games over several seasons is incomprehensible. even matthews is guaranteed to miss 4-6 games per year due to hamstrings.

thoughts?

While I do agree that the defense will never take that next step with Hawk in there, even 1 good ILB can make a huge difference. ILB is the most crucial part of the whole defense...if the ILBs aren't doing their job, nothing gets done. The NTs, DEs and OLBs spend a lot of time setting the play up for an ILB to make and if they're not making the plays they're given then the whole scheme falls apart.

In 2011 they had real problems on the DL. They lacked talent, and I think they've solved a lot of that problem. With Neal playing well, Daniels playing well, and Worthy playing well I think life got easier for the ILBs in 2012. The problem is our ILBs weren't doing their jobs. Bishop isn't Patrick Willis, but he gets the job done. I think having Bishop in would have made a HUGE difference.

While hindsite is 20/20 but just think had Green Bay drafted either Harrison the ND Safety or the Boise running back who went to Tampa Bay! There back end would be set and they would have a real hitter at safety or a top back. Instead they have a injured D.-end/ Outside Backer who is a big question mark.

Yeah because they didn't need to draft a OLB, one of the more important positions in a 3-4. Already discounting Perry, hilarious. Tell me, why is he such a huge question mark?

At this point anyone who thinks Perry ain't legit needs an eye doctor. Now, whether he's a true OLB is another story but Perry will be successful in this league barring injury. I don't want to see a lot of him in pass coverage but he can handle all the running game and put pressure on QBs.

The point of the article is that Bishop is our hardest hitter & gives the defense some "nasty" which it lacks, not so much about his talent, but more about him being the type of hitter that no one else on the defense is.

It may be a bit of forecasting on my part but I think you can put Perry in the same "toughness/physical" category as Bishop.

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even matthews is guaranteed to miss 4-6 games per year due to hamstrings.

thoughts?

CMIII has played in 15 or 16 games 3 of his 4 years in the NFL. I don't where your getting "guaranteed" 4-6 games per year. This past season yes he was held out but it's also well known MM and Capers was being especially cautious with him because they knew GB was playoff bound and wanted zero issues with his injury going into the playoffs. CMIII had said he was ready to resume play after 2 weeks but GB trainers were holding him out.

If you get a chance listen to the Journal Sentinal Podcast with McGinn about the defense. Posted on line 1-28 or 1-29. When the discussion comes to Perry he talks about pick being a need pick last year not BPA and tells stories about scouts who saw Perry as an underproducer. Scouts were not high on Perry according to McGinn. Like him or hate him McGinn has been fairly accurate.

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Originally posted by Henry:
Yeah because they didn't need to draft a OLB, one of the more important positions in a 3-4. Already discounting Perry, hilarious. Tell me, why is he such a huge question mark?

Scouts saw holes in Aaron Rodgers game as well.

I would have given a shaved testicle to have Perry on the field in SF instead of Walden. Perry is going to be fine.

I'm going to go ahead and say this as well. I would love to see TT sign Richard Seymour and draft Alec Ogletree if he happens to be there. He's a converted safety and would be a great compliment to Bishop. Seymour has plenty left in the tank. Find a way to land Travis Fredrick in round 2.

I'm asking a lot but this team is thisclose!

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Originally posted by noiropus:

quote:

Article is about the 'toughness" Bishop brings to the defesne & I think this is what he is referring to when he says 'mindset"

packers were unfortunately atrocious in 2011 when he played. sure he is a good player, but not a difference maker.

I'll go out on a limb & say no way Kaepernick rushes for 181 yards if he was playing.

You underestimate the toughness he brings to our defense

Starting Defensive guys out with injury

Desmond Bishop
Jerel Worthy
Nick Perry
Charles Woodson
Clay Matthews for a few games

Who else?

Chilli I know the Podcast is 53 min long but interesting points regarding Walden. Says he was 2nd best linebacker last year. Clay was player of year for team. I think they see Perry ending up at end going forward.

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Originally posted by ChilliJon:
I would have given a shaved testicle to have Perry on the field in SF instead of Walden.

You mean that's all we needed to beat the Niners? I'm ready.

So a writer from a newspaper is a player expert. Wonder why he doesn't work in the NFL.

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Like him or hate him McGinn has been fairly accurate.

Like him or hate him, McGinn has been wrong a lot. He is human, just like TT, only TT knows a hell of a lot more about the game. I think I will let it play out, but Perry was a force against the run and a pass rusher when he played.

Come on. I'm not saying Bob McGinn is the expert. We all know he is pretty connected with the team for the Past 20 Years. We all have opinions about "Our Packers", I think his statements are not made so he looks better than anyone else but instead he is telling us what other scouts etc. are saying and what he saw from his perspective.

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
So a writer from a newspaper is a player expert. Wonder why he doesn't work in the NFL.

In college Perry was lined up on the end with a hand on the ground and was told to beat his guy and get upfield.

In GB he's asked to stand up and play the opposite side and learn to read 4 or 5 things pre-snap. What we saw out of him last year was nothing but athletic talent and instinct. The play when he blew by Indy's RT and absolutely destroyed Andrew Luck is a great example. He's only going to get better as he learns how to play the position.

I know this though. On Scampernicks 56 yard TD run a FB washed out Walden by himself after Walden dove inside. Perry would have rag dolled a FB 1 on 1 and held the edge.

What is more likely: Super Bowl winner and 2 time Executive of the Year Ted Thompson disregarded his scouts, panicked and picked the first pass rusher available OR McGinn is wrong?

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Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
If you get a chance listen to the Journal Sentinal Podcast with McGinn about the defense. Posted on line 1-28 or 1-29. When the discussion comes to Perry he talks about pick being a need pick last year not BPA and tells stories about scouts who saw Perry as an underproducer. Scouts were not high on Perry according to McGinn. Like him or hate him McGinn has been fairly accurate.

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Originally posted by Henry:
Yeah because they didn't need to draft a OLB, one of the more important positions in a 3-4. Already discounting Perry, hilarious. Tell me, why is he such a huge question mark?

Or I could look at what he's done on the field while transitioning from a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB. He is physical and has the skill set. I'm going to trust TT more than McGinn, and I like McGinn.

But feel free to keep wetting your pants on every pick and buying whatever is being shoveled.

.

Nick Perry is going to be a difference maker in 2013. As far as the draft goes, they couldn't go wrong with big body DL in the mold of Ryan Pickett, SS (they haven't come within miles of filling the hole that losing Collins has left) or ILB (what more needs to be said about Hawk at this point?). Even if they don't find any answers at ILB in the draft, they would be well advised to just cut Hawk and plug Brad Jones into his spot next to Bishop. As far as talent goes, there wouldn't be much of a change, but they'd be freeing up salary cap space that is better spent elsewhere. I'm really hoping they address at least two of those three positions on defense and find a new center (no more of this undersized Wells/Saturday/EDS 6'2", 300lb crap at C, they need a big, mean, nasty son of a bitch who lives to runblock in January) in the top half of the draft.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
What is more likely: Super Bowl winner and 2 time Executive of the Year Ted Thompson disregarded his scouts, panicked and picked the first pass rusher available OR McGinn is wrong?

Neither as Perry wasn't the first pass rusher taken but it is conceivable to believe Perry was taken higher than Thompson wanted or was not the ideal guy Thompson wanted as Irvin, Coples, Ingram, McClellin, Jones and Mercilus were all taken before Perry. Courtney Upshaw, Vinny Curry and maybe Andre Branch were the only other guys to really fit the position taken in the next 2 1/2 rounds.

I think Perry could turn out to be stout but if he is the starter at LOLB and Bishop comes back well than the other ILB spot really needs to have superior speed/range.

I think that's a fair assessment. There is absolutely a need for a ILB that has much better coverage skills. Perry isn't a slouch when it comes to speed but again, coverage is probably the biggest adjustment from DE to OLB.

McGinn's larger point was that when you're asking a player to make that type of switch in position there's a risk that the move won't pan out. I didn't think he was really negative about Perry at all, just realistic.

Maybe one of the guys on IR?

DJ Smith, Jamari Lattimore or my pick Terrell Manning

I expect improvement here.

They simply cannot have a slow ILB like AJ Hawk covering Vernon Davis. Gimme a break

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Originally posted by Boris:
Terrell Manning

That.

Injuries doubly suck. They didn't just limit this team this year but it makes it that much more difficult for TT and the coaching staff to know what they have in their rookies when they end up on IR. TT has to make an even tougher guess about whether guys like Perry, Manning, Sherrod need better replacements or if he can address another spot higher in the draft.

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Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
If you get a chance listen to the Journal Sentinal Podcast with McGinn about the defense. Posted on line 1-28 or 1-29. When the discussion comes to Perry he talks about pick being a need pick last year not BPA and tells stories about scouts who saw Perry as an underproducer. Scouts were not high on Perry according to McGinn. Like him or hate him McGinn has been fairly accurate.

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Originally posted by Henry:
Yeah because they didn't need to draft a OLB, one of the more important positions in a 3-4. Already discounting Perry, hilarious. Tell me, why is he such a huge question mark?

Perry ran the second fastest 40 to Bruce Irvin 4.5 to 4.43. Yet he is 30 lbs bigger and does 35 to 23 reps. Incredible size,speed,strength combo for OLB. McGinn is a bucket of ass on Perry.

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Originally posted by michiganjoe:
McGinn's larger point was that when you're asking a player to make that type of switch in position there's a risk that the move won't pan out. I didn't think he was really negative about Perry at all, just realistic.

That makes more sense. There isn't a scout out there that has a problem with Perry's overall skill set. He is strong and fast, now it's just learning the position. He was starting to look more comfortable right before he got hurt and I was impressed with how he was throwing guys around.

FWIW, Perry is out of the cast and is just wearing a brace. He will be 100% for the first set of OTAs right after the draft.

Perry's only potential weakness at this point is his hips. Can he open them up and turn to run with a guy out into the flat or to change direction in pursuit. Or is he too stiff? That is what will prove critical in his transition to OLB when people talk about whether or not he can cover. He doesn't have to be a DB but he can't get burnt reliably enough for offenses to keep going after him.

Walden had great flexibility just poor awareness and couldn't drop his anchor on the edge.

I think Perry will always be a bit lacking in coverage because he does look a bit stiff, but it will be up to whether or not the rest of his skills can outweigh that or the rest of the D/scheme can cover for it.

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Originally posted by DH13:
his hips. Can he open them up and turn. Or is he too stiff? Walden had great flexibility and anchor

I think Perry look a bit stiff,

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Originally posted by Boris:
Maybe one of the guys on IR?

DJ Smith, Jamari Lattimore or my pick Terrell Manning

I expect improvement here.

They simply cannot have a slow ILB like AJ Hawk covering Vernon Davis. Gimme a break

I'd like to see Manning get involved too. He had that illness all through training camp and that seemed to kind of keep him out of the spotlight all year. Hopefully he's healthy and can make some moves up the depth chart in training camp.