Jon Ryan.quote:Exactly which players that left the Packers under TT actually played at the same level they did while with GB?
I'd throw Sharper in there as well. The totality of TT's record indicates that he almost always makes the correct call.
Originally Posted by Fedya:
Jon Ryan.quote:Exactly which players that left the Packers under TT actually played at the same level they did while with GB?
He said "players".
Wahl, Longwell, Sharper, Colledge, Barnett, Ryan, B-Junk (technically). Colledge's strength was his great chemistry with an ageing Clifton though, which soon became moot. The only real mistake though may have been keeping AJ Hawk over Barnett. Barnett was a little older, but had a couple of pretty good years in Buffalo and played some solid snaps in Washington before hanging them up. He was a goof complement to Desmond Bishop, skills-wise. Hawk was and continued to be, well, AJ Hawk.
I think Cullen Jenkins was the classic "a year too early than a year too late". He would have been a huge contributor in 2011 but after that his impact on the Eagles then Giants seriously diminished (he was cut after 2012). Paying him $5-6m at that point would not have been worth it.
Jone Ryan was definitely a guy who was worth keeping. However, if I remember right, he didn't like punting in Green Bay and wanted out. Plus, he wasn't actually that good here. Could punt it a mile, but never had the touch or accuracy to be a top notch punter.
And agree Herschel. Barnett is the only guy I can remember who TT should have kept (with hindsight). I never liked his attitude and maybe that was the reason. But when Barnett was let go after an injured 2010, Hawk actually wasn't playing that bad. Like signing Jones after a very good 2012, it may have been a poor decision in hindsight but it made all the sense at the time.
And I think Sharpers "me" like attitude is what sent him packing, personally I never cared for the guy ever and felt he was an overrated stat padder
In his two years in Cleveland, Jackson was injury plagued and managed only 54 total rushing yards.
No idea Jackson did that poorly in Cleveland. He really wasn't a very good player and the production wouldn't have been there had he stayed healthy. Pretty amazing that Lacy was picked only two spots higher than he was.
"B-Junk" as some of you call him, helped us win a super bowl
I'll always thank him for that.
I'll always thank him for that.
Randy Moss.
What a year he had. Does the Pack beat the Giants in the NFC Champtionship with that team + Moss?
Originally Posted by phaedrus:
Randy Moss.
What a year he had. Does the Pack beat the Giants in the NFC Champtionship with that team + Moss?
We'll never know, but the Patriots could not beat the Giants either and they had Moss on their team.
I don't think we talk enough about how letting Nic Barnett walk was a franchise crippling move
If only Thompson would have traded for Lynch, we'd have won the Super Bowl in 2010.
As great as Barnett was (potential 13th ballot Hall of Famer), you can't keep a guy on the roster that publicly states it's "kind of sad" about being left out of the Super Bowl team pic.
He had to go. Same with Finley when he spouted off being left out of the photo was "not cool".
Did letting them go set the team back several years? Yes. But you have to have photo principles.
Originally Posted by Goalline:
Originally Posted by Fedya:
Jon Ryan.quote:Exactly which players that left the Packers under TT actually played at the same level they did while with GB?
He said "players".
Originally Posted by ChilliJon:
As great as Barnett was (potential 13th ballot Hall of Famer), you can't keep a guy on the roster that publicly states it's "kind of sad" about being left out of the Super Bowl team pic.
He had to go. Same with Finley when he spouted off being left out of the photo was "not cool".
Did letting them go set the team back several years? Yes. But you have to have photo principles.
Originally Posted by Fedya:
Originally Posted by Goalline:
Originally Posted by Fedya:
Jon Ryan.quote:Exactly which players that left the Packers under TT actually played at the same level they did while with GB?
He said "players".
People, yes. Football players? NO!
You want him on that ball...
If they got rid of punting in the NFL, would anyone be that upset? I think it'd make the game more exciting.
I'd be upset, because it would be a sign that the league is even more focused on offense.quote:If they got rid of punting in the NFL, would anyone be that upset?
No punting. Basically teams that suck on offense will get blown out by the end of Q1
Originally Posted by Boris:
I don't think we gave James Lee enough chances to get past the 2nd play of TC.
Petve.
Regarding Chilijon's video of the punt return, it's only exciting because the refs failed to call two obvious block in the back penalties and because the score on the top of the screen shows GB is pummeling Seattle 35-13
The kickoff has been taken away, the xtra pt may be taken away, some advocate for the punt to be taken away...how long will it be called football?
Originally Posted by 18c3v:
Regarding Chilijon's video of the punt return, it's only exciting because the refs failed to call two obvious block in the back penalties and because the score on the top of the screen shows GB is pummeling Seattle 35-13
Plus it was against the Broncos.
Originally Posted by GBFanForLife:
Man, that is bigtime encouraging. Sure hope the writer is right in his take on Ryan.
Originally Posted by Herschel:
http://www.nationalfootballpos...the-urgency-index-2/
"When in doubt, a team should draft a player at a position of need for which there is the biggest disparity in results between a player drafted earlier and a player drafted later."
There are some Interesting data points for a tie-breaker system regarding prospects, though it is a bit of a "chicken and egg" scenario. What it basically said was the sweet spot for getting a five-year starter at ILB is the guys taken in the 25-46 range over similar prospects at other positions, otherwise there wasnât as much difference in waiting.
Cornerback, on the other hand, in the first few rounds is much more so âtake the corner".
IoW: If TT had Stephone Anthony and Randall graded evenly, odds were slightly better that Randall was going to turn out to be a five-year starter. And if he had Ty Montgomery and Paul Dawson rated similarly and he felt a KO return guy/4th receiver/backfield weapon was as big of a need as ILB, taking Montgomery gives him a better shot at having that long-term guy.
Getting back to the chicken-and-egg scenario, though, is one of the reasons WR odds are good in the second and third round is because of TT's success in taking them there.
So, using this idea, if TT felt the other positions were as big a need as ILB, he played the odds with his selections.
Of course, that doesn't account for if that feeling was correct, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Thompson certainly didn't fail us at the ILB position. This is one of the weirdest sets of circumstances that I've seen in recent memory involving the draft.
For whatever reason, the draft sites and media outlets keyed on 5 ILBs primarily as the options at the position. Looking at Jake Ryan's stats, his are on par with or exceed those of all 5 of Kendricks, Anthony, Perryman, McKinney and Dawson. Plus, Ryan has size and great instincts. To me, it was a perfect example of Ted Thompson finding value, taking Ryan at #129.
Add to that, we moved Matthews to ILB last year, and promoted Barrington to starter status. Carl Bradford, taken in the 4th round last year, was the #4 rated LB in the entire 2014 draft, and the #52nd ranked player overall out of over 2000 players. As per Dom's wishes, he prefers to sit rookies. I can see where they may have decided after TC last year to groom him exclusively to challenge for one of the starter positions this year. Add to that players like Palmer, Thomas and Dantzler who are also in the mix at ILB, and this unit really looks deep.
Sadly, I bought in on the top 5 hype myself, and over estimated the need there in GB as well. Hook, line and sinker. I'm very confident, now, with who we have and thrilled Ted loaded up at CB.
How in the world did Ryan last?
I feel like there is a disconnect somewhere.
He was injured and then they had him playing multiple positions last year which didn't allow him to settle in and build a resume at ILB.
Great post, Trophies. Totally agree.
I think that's it DH13. Good get.
Jake Ryan forced more TOs than Perryman and McKinney, tied with Kendricks and Dawson with 8 (7 FF, 1 INT), one TO fewer than Anthony who had 9. Tied Anthony as sacks leader amongst those 5 ILB with 9.5. Had 12 more TFL than Anthony, leading the entire group of 5 ILBs by a long shot.
At 6-3 240 he is as big as Anthony, quite a bit larger than Kendricks, Perryman and Dawson. Faster than Dawson, Perryman and McKinney. Far more instinctive than Anthony, which was the big knock on Anthony. Far better run stopper than Kendrick's, which actually was the big knock on Kendricks. Ranked just behind Dawson at PFF in tackling efficiency (Dawson led that category by quite a bit, but freelanced A LOT, which will not work with Capers).
Smart. Responsible. Not a head case.
I like the the pick at 129. Love it. And, to think I was so steamed after both nights 1 and 2 of this last draft. I was out of my head knowing we passed on all 5. I believe Ted really knew what he was doing there.
Ted Thompson always knows what he is doing. Better than Packer fans and better than every other NFL GM.
Going to be interesting to see how these guys translate to the NFL. I liked Kendricks. A lot.
Now that he's a Viking I wish him a career full of misery and failure.
The memory of Hawk looking like he had no idea WTF he was doing on the play Peppers stripped Murray on the potential long gain and then a week later after Clay was spent and on the sideline is still fresh enough for me to hold off embracing another Big 10 ILB rook. **** Hawks last two games as a Packer were brutal.
Originally Posted by ammo:
Ted Thompson always knows what he is doing. Better than Packer fans and better than every other NFL GM.
Brad Jones and A.J. Hawk, both of whom TT signed to significant second contracts, were the Packers starting linebackers going into last season even though many fans were concerned about that prospect. Jones was pretty much benched after game 1 in Seattle. Hawk was allowed to continue his putrid play until he was finally benched mid-season. The principal backup, Jamari Lattimore, was no better than Jones or Hawk.
While TT has had more hits than misses overall, the idea he "always knows what he is doing" is a bit of a stretch after what occurred at inside linebacker in 2014 (and safety in 2013).
I have hope that between shifting Clay to ILBer, the possible emergence of Bradford, and the continued development of Barrington that the position will be much improved.
As for Ryan, maybe he just got lost in the fog of the Brady Hoke era, but I see a less athletic AJ Hawk. Ryan is not a natural linebacker and he only shifted to the middle last season. Why an inexperienced and not particularly instinctive player would be expected to emerge at the position is a bit baffling to me. Of course, he could turn out to be this year's version of Cory Linsley, so we can always hope.
Originally Posted by ammo:
Ted Thompson always knows what he is doing. Better than Packer fans and better than every other NFL GM.
What!? Even better than Spielman?
Originally Posted by SteveLuke:
Originally Posted by ammo:
Ted Thompson always knows what he is doing. Better than Packer fans and better than every other NFL GM.
Brad Jones and A.J. Hawk, both of whom TT signed to significant second contracts, were the Packers starting linebackers going into last season even though many fans were concerned about that prospect. Jones was pretty much benched after game 1 in Seattle. Hawk was allowed to continue his putrid play until he was finally benched mid-season. The principal backup, Jamari Lattimore, was no better than Jones or Hawk.
While TT has had more hits than misses overall, the idea he "always knows what he is doing" is a bit of a stretch after what occurred at inside linebacker in 2014 (and safety in 2013).
I have hope that between shifting Clay to ILBer, the possible emergence of Bradford, and the continued development of Barrington that the position will be much improved.
As for Ryan, maybe he just got lost in the fog of the Brady Hoke era, but I see a less athletic AJ Hawk. Ryan is not a natural linebacker and he only shifted to the middle last season. Why an inexperienced and not particularly instinctive player would be expected to emerge at the position is a bit baffling to me. Of course, he could turn out to be this year's version of Cory Linsley, so we can always hope.
You raise super points here.
I do think agreeing with moves made by Ted Thompson shouldn't equate with a belief that "everything he touches is gold."
Personally, I struggled with the Brad Jones signing, one player who I thought completely lacked instincts for the ILB position. Also had issues with him taking from Oct 2011, when Nick Collins went down until April 2014 to add a quality player at Safety. Letting Cullen Jenkins walk was a huge mistake, much like the one Seattle made when they let Chris Clemons go.
GMs across the NFL make mistakes, even with all those resources at their disposal, and for some, that's all they do is make mistakes.
Thankfully, Thompson has kept his miscues to a minimum, and I believe he made a personal commitment to perform better after so many whiffs in his 2011 draft. So many teams would love to have Ted Thompson at the GM position. We are fortunate.
SteveLuke, I don't see Ryan as inexperienced, and I do see him as a natural LB with sound instincts. Just watch any of a multitude of highlight reels he is featured in. http://youtu.be/bLamo58-BDc
Just look at this hit
His film is very good.
Jake Ryan also was playing on a pretty poor Michigan team. That has to factor in some In his not cracking that top set of ILBs this past draft.