@ammo posted:And there was also a holding penalty on the last KC drive that nullified a long pass that would have been a 1st down too.
They let KC's T line up off the LOS and let a bunch of false starts go throughout the game. They were due.
@michiganjoe posted:And I remain a Goff skeptic....
There are plenty of skeptic but since he went to Detroit he seems like a different QB. He's never going to be a superstar but a QB that doesn't beat himself is why I think he's underrated. I also think his teammates really believe in him which didn't seem to be the case in LA.
<Goff made it through the game without throwing an interception, which is notable, because he's now put together one of the longest streaks in NFL history without throwing a pick.
The Lions quarterback closed out the 2022 season by making 324 straight pass attempts without throwing an interception. If you add that to the 35 passes that Goff threw against the Chiefs, that means the veteran QB has now thrown 359 straight passes without an interception, which is the third-longest streak in NFL history. >
@Fandame posted:There were a lot of killers in this game. The one that made me say "game" was Toney's drop with about 2:30 left when he was wide open and had acres of running room. No doubt, Detroit played hard but KC probably would have won if Toney caught the balls thrown right to him or if he didn't play. Rodgers would have ignored him for the year after the INT!
Even if Toney just catches the one that turned into a pick 6 the outcome flips.
@PackerRick posted:Even if Toney just catches the one that turned into a pick 6 the outcome flips.
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There's a reason the Giants dumped this guy after one season despite spending a #1 pick on him. Sometimes the Chiefs come across as arrogant picking up other teams disappointments as if to show Mahomes can make anybody look good. No matter what Hill was going to cost them, he'd have far more impact that all the WRs combined they tried to replace him with. Hardeman and Hill was a lot of speed to lose.
@michiganjoe posted:And I remain a Goff skeptic....
Same. Yes he hasn’t thrown a pick in forever but when you watch him play he just seems slow. Slow to move, slow release. And last night missed some really easy throws.
I was mostly shocked by how open Detroit’s receivers got. KC looked like they played soft zone all night or something. Pretty easy to make plays when there’s nobody around the WR.
No one should be surprised by how Goff currently looks. This is exactly who he was in LA when they had a talented roster around them. They launched him to DET when they realized they couldn't win the SB with a QB at his ceiling, and one with a higher ceiling was available. He has some talent around him again and what looks like a good OC so he's back to where he was.
Good O-Line....good skill positions
I still haven't seen him throw a ball longer than 15 yards. Did I miss a longer throw last night??
No matter what Goff looks like the results are there. He doesn't turn the ball over, his teammates love him, and the Lions have won 8 of their last 10 games. At one time it took 3 seasons in Detroit to win 8 games. He had 4400 yards, 29 TDs with only 7 Ints last season. How many of us would be happy with that from Love this year?
He has a couple very good seasons in LA and then something changed and I'm not convinced it was Goff that changed.
@PackerRick posted:Goff is a lot better than people give him credit for. He's not dynamic, just a game manager, but he takes good care of the ball.
He's a guy who can lead this team to 8 or 9 wins.
@H5 posted:He's a guy who can lead this team to 8 or 9 wins.
He must have gotten lucky the years he won 11 games and 13 games.
If you take out his rookie season where he had 7 starts for the team that had the #1 overall pick and the obligatory 3 win season in Detroit when he first got there, he has a career record of 52-28.
DET is not a loaded team. They won 9 last year, 8-2 down the stretch with 4 of those wins coming from CHI & GBP.
11 or 13 wins with a completely different roster and scheme is irrelevant to my comment - this team.
I hope you're right. He's already won 9 in Detroit and now he's won at KC. Few QBs "win" games. Goff doesn't make mistakes and that makes him dangerous because he won't "lose" a game and there are several QBs that do that.
Hear me out...
— Steve Rieder (@AvoidtheVig) September 8, 2023
4 & 25
KC should have stepped out of bounds on their own 9 yard line. DET couldn't milk the clock and would have to score a FG or TD. KC would be guaranteed to get the ball back in a one score game with a new set of downs and 1:30 or so left on the clock.
@PackerRick posted:There's a reason the Giants dumped this guy after one season despite spending a #1 pick on him. Sometimes the Chiefs come across as arrogant picking up other teams disappointments as if to show Mahomes can make anybody look good. No matter what Hill was going to cost them, he'd have far more impact that all the WRs combined they tried to replace him with. Hardeman and Hill was a lot of speed to lose.
He's the same type of receiver Gutekunst has gone after: Athletically freakish, big play potential, questionable hands.
@PackerRick posted:There's a reason the Giants dumped this guy after one season despite spending a #1 pick on him. Sometimes the Chiefs come across as arrogant picking up other teams disappointments as if to show Mahomes can make anybody look good. No matter what Hill was going to cost them, he'd have far more impact that all the WRs combined they tried to replace him with. Hardeman and Hill was a lot of speed to lose.
MVS was the bargain basement version of Hill.
Mahomes can make almost any WR look good as long as they can catch the ball. You can get away with slow WRs because they don't need to be as open as they do with a league-average guy. They'd be better off with a bunch of Lazards than a bunch of fast guys who can't catch.
@H5 posted:He's a guy who can lead this team to 8 or 9 wins.
@PackerRick posted:I hope you're right. He's already won 9 in Detroit and now he's won at KC. Few QBs "win" games. Goff doesn't make mistakes and that makes him dangerous because he won't "lose" a game and there are several QBs that do that.
I certainly don't want to speak for H5, but I believe the key word (highlighted above) is "lead". Lots of QBs can have winning records or really good stretches of games/season simply by not losing games. But it takes more than being "good enough" to actually lead teams year after year to great records and championships.
@PackLandVA posted:it takes more than being "good enough" to actually lead teams year after year to great records and championships.
That's exactly why the Rams let Goff go. He's a tease. Good enough to get you there but at some point you need your QB to make a play and most of the times "just good enough" doesn't win you a championship.
Unless you're the 2000 Ravens with Dilfer or the Tampa Bucs with Brad Johnson, both teams had EVERYTHING else (defense, running game, special teams) both teams were able to win by leaning heavily on their strengths and protecting the QB from having to be great. They just needed their QB to be "good enough".
The Lions are nowhere NEAR those teams. From what I saw their O-Line played well. D-Line played about average and they had their opponent make a LOT of mistakes. In the NFL that can equate to wins....and it did on Thursday Night.
Credos to the Lions. Now let's see where they are in December 😉
