How many positions is GB "away" from being a SB contender?

4

I agree:  Back when Gb drafted well the 08 and 09 drafts were very good.  10 brought Bulaga.  This is a year with, 5 picks in the top half of the draft, that could really set GB up well.  I almost got a sports  "woody" when I heard the Packers had signed an expert offensive line evaulator.  I hope he is as good as the guy who recoomended Tretter, Bulaga, Sitton Lang and Lindsley.  If so GB could be crapping in tall cotton in 2019.

I think back to that 2010 team that won the Super Bowl.  They were either great or solid at about 17 of the 22 starting positions.  And Mason Crosby and Tim Masthay were rock solid for that season.

They had issues at RB, TE, LG, ROLB, and SS.  RB, TE, and SS were problematic mostly due to injury (Ryan Grant, Jermichael Finley, Morgan Burnett were out most of the year).  LG had Daryn Colledge who I guess you could say wasn't terrible, but I never thought he was a particularly solid player.  ROLB was a revolving door of Brad Jones, Frank Zombo, Erik Walden. 

But the 17 guys that were solid or better, man we had it pretty good with those guys.   You had the elite guys in Rodgers, Woodson, Matthews, N. Collins.  You had the very good guys in Raji, Clifton, Sitton, Bulaga, T. Williams in his prime, G. Jennings, C. Jenkins, D. Bishop, and an emerging Jordy Nelson.  You had the good/solid in Kuhn, a near the end of the line Driver, Wells, Pickett, a talented Nickel in rookie DB Shields.  Hawk was probably the most marginal of those 17 guys but for the most part he had a solid year when forced to take over full time from Chillar.

I think about how far last year's team was from what they had in 2010 and admittedly, it looks almost hopeless to ever reach that level.  That said, a couple of exceptional off-seasons and they can start thinking of approaching that type of level of talent. 

For the Packers' teams of the next 2 - 3 years, I'll say they need another 5 or 6 near all Pro talents added to the roster plus a couple more solid guys to fix weaknesses to even sniff the kind of roster that 2010 team had.  They need guys like Mike Daniels to get healthy and back to what he was, and need a guy like Kevin King to take the next step and stay healthy.

3 new OL...New England's D isn't anything to write home about. Tom Brady has been in a clean pocket the entire playoffs. Look where they are.

Two new OG, a healthy Boo-lager, and a competent backup, and I think the offense will explode.

I think you can find a few solid playmakers and improve pretty fast.  The problem is depth.  Real depth.  Capable depth.  That does not exist on this team.  Zombos and Peprahs aren't on this team.  So yeah, a couple of good signings and hitting on a couple draft picks can go quite aways but good luck making it through the season and going deep into the playoffs if you've got 5th stringers everywhere behind a handful of legit starters.

Chongo posted:

3 new OL...New England's D isn't anything to write home about. Tom Brady has been in a clean pocket the entire playoffs. Look where they are.

Brady also gets rid of the ball on time/timely the majority of the time. 

Off the top of my head:

RG

RT (Bulaga is fine as a back up, no way I can see you counting on him as a starter in 2019)

TE (Assuming the Packers move on from Graham)

FS

SS

ROLB 

LOLB

ILB (opposite Martinez)

CB (Kevin King is a significant question mark with health. Jackson is unknown) 

Thats 9 right there.

my four

Edge rusher

S

TE

RT

It depends who the guys are. They are probably two guys away if they could add Quentin Nelson and JJ Watt, but there a lot of NFL teams that are 2 guys away if you add those types of players. Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith made that difference for the Bears. 

I think there are two ways to look at this. First. I think you need 3-4 impact players for any Super Bowl winning team. These are type of guys that make game-changing plays regularly. Then, you have to make sure you don't have any glaring weaknesses that get you beat even if you have the impact players (the DBs in the 2016 championship game, the ILBs in 2012-15, and OL from other years). 

Impact players are guys that are at least in the HOF discussion if they stay healthy over a period of time. If your QB is one of these guys you don't need many more on the offensive side. 

For impact players, 2010 had Rodgers, Woodson, Nick Collins, and a young CM3. 1996 had Favre, Reggie White, and Butler. Those teams had a lot of other good players (Jennings, Jordy, Tramon, and Josh Sitton and in 1996 guys like Gilbert Brown, Keith Jackson, Sean Jones, etc.). In 2018, the Packers had three guys you'd consider at this level - all on offense. Rodgers (although diminished from 2010), can clearly play at that level, while D. Adams and Bakhtiari are pretty close. They had no one on defense that rose to that level. 

For glaring weaknesses to replace from 2018, they need at least 1 and probably 2 OL positions and at least 2 DBs. This gets to Henry's point about a glaring lack of depth. 

So, they are probably about 6 players away. Out of those 6, they need another 2 impact players - and you generally only get those guys in the first round or by paying a lot of money in free agency. The alternative is to have guys make the leap to that level - the obvious candidates are Kenny Clark and J. Alexander. 

If you have a rejuvenated Rodgers, Adams, get Clark or Alexander to make that jump, and add a guy at that level with one of the first round picks, you have enough to be in the conversation. I think the key guy to add is an edge rusher - either a DE or OLB. 

The other part is what Henry referred to as increased depth. It doesn't matter how good Rodgers, Adams, and Bakh are if you have the 2018 versions of Jason Spriggs and McCray starting on the OL. Those guys lose games for you. So they need 2-3 additional OL, 2-3 additional DBs, and some help at ILB. 

To add that many decent players in one draft is really challenging. They don't have to have superstar guys to replace Spriggs, McCray, their safeties, or their corners. They just need guys that are solid. You can get them in the middle rounds of the draft, but realistically it's a multiyear process to get there. 

GB lost to LA in LA by 2 then cut Ty. Then lost to NE in NE a Week later. 

Lets not overwork this. Don’t need to add 4. Or 6. Or 9. Or 15. Just need to play better football. 

Chongo posted:

3 new OL...New England's D isn't anything to write home about. Tom Brady has been in a clean pocket the entire playoffs. Look where they are.

Two new OG, a healthy Boo-lager, and a competent backup, and I think the offense will explode.

"Fix" the O-Line & I guarantee the Packers make the divisional round at a minimum even with the 32nd ranked defense & 32nd ranked ST's, which won't happen.

Unless Rodgers lost the magic, and I don't believe he has, They're not that far away.

Depends on if they are talking just the starting 22 or are accounting for depth as well.  I think 9 is high.  With significant talent upgrades at SS, OLB, TE, RG and possibly RT, they could make some noise next year.

Summary:  They need to get a bunch of capable guys, all attainable via FA and draft, with a couple of cherries on top.

One of the earlier poster's pointed out that GB was really solid at 17 of the 24 positions on the team in that Super Bowl Year.  It was easy to see because GB had such a  good regular season in 2011.  Now many Superbowl teams get there with much less talent than GB had in '10'  and they don't need all of it to get there.  They do need good drafting,  prudent FA pickups and good health. Should someone say after the 2019 season that GB was a tissue thin team that won the SuperBowl with guile and mirrors I would smile like a mule eating cactus!

YATittle posted:

my four

Edge rusher

S

TE

RT

From a position standpoint, I would say the play at RG was one of the biggest reasons the offense struggled. Byron Bell was all world shitty. 

Packdog posted:

YATittle posted:

my four

Edge rusher

S

TE

RT

From a position standpoint, I would say the play at RG was one of the biggest reasons the offense struggled. Byron Bell was all world shitty. 

My favorites were the pass plays where he went out of his way to block NOBODY! Some were posted on this page. Talk about stealing a salary.

And yet he was still better than McCray.

I think the Packers are 3-4 players away from having the potential to dominate.
The immediate needs are at RG/RT, OLB, and S. 
It's quite a stretch to find that many starters in one off-season, but looks much less formidable when FA acquisition can supplement the draft.

I think 9 is way too many players. If we were 'given' 9 players to upgrade any position, I think there are 5-6 spots where legitimate arguments can be made, but it becomes fantasy football after that.
Even with FA and drafts, "upgrading' 9 positions would likely a 3 year process, and by that time, there are others that have become 'needs', and you're right back where you started.

I'm hoping mid-round picks will stabilize depth issues along the OL, at LB, and at DB. Finding any diamonds-in-the-rough in the late rounds, no matter the position, would be gravy. 

When you look at combined total yards ranking for offense and defense, there were only 7 teams that were better than us this past season ....that does not indicate a total lack of talent. Biggest problems we had were lack of third down conversion on offense & forcing turnovers on defense. I think Timmy hit the nail on the head. RG / RT, Edge , Safety are biggest need areas. Of course so much comes down to injuries

hard to say.  this time of year, who would have thunk that cj anderson would be needed with 30, but he is, so that's a real hard question to answer.  i remember the big nasty on gb's team who had a baller game in the nfcc game, i dont' even remember his name - but different guys step up when the lights go on, we need a bunch of them guys.

Howard Green.

Tdog posted:

Chongo posted:

3 new OL...New England's D isn't anything to write home about. Tom Brady has been in a clean pocket the entire playoffs. Look where they are.

Brady also gets rid of the ball on time/timely the majority of the time. 

Brady has a HC, in BB, who isn't afraid to mix things up, either. BB churns his roster quite a bit. Good clock management and a solid game plan don't hurt things in NE, either.

I think we upgrade to the 5, or so, positions of current need(RG, RT, Pass Rusher,TE & Safety)and hope injuries stay away from this team this next season to give us a shot at being in another NFCC or another Super Bowl.

Chongo posted:

3 new OL...New England's D isn't anything to write home about. Tom Brady has been in a clean pocket the entire playoffs. Look where they are.

Two new OG, a healthy Boo-lager, and a competent backup, and I think the offense will explode.

Agreed.  To me a winning football team has always has started with a very good OL.  So for that to happen they need an upgrade at RG and RT.  I don't think the Packers can rely upon Bulaga staying healthy anymore.  I will maintain you fix the OL you fix AR,  the whole offense gets better, and you help the defense by controlling the clock.

TE - Need a guy who can stretch the middle of the field consistently

Safety X2

OLB - will need to replace Clay or find a player who can play instead of Nick "glass" Perry

ILB - Martinez is decent but will need another guy there unless Burks steps up

There is one other thing that will help this team out and that is for once to be healthy.   I know all teams get banged up but at some point the football gods have to let this team be healthy.

In terms of being healthy... the biggest thing that has to happen is that #12 has to stay healthy.  That's getting harder and harder as the years go on.  As others have said, all the more reason to focus on the offensive line.  I don't know that Rodgers was ever 100% after that injury vs. the Bears in week 1.  That's 2 years in a row that he's had a fairly significant injury even though he started every game last year. 

Injuries control so much.  Look at the teams in the final 4 and you'll find very healthy rosters.  How many starters missed how many games in the second half of the season for GB?  Last time GB was relatively healthy was 2014.  That's all that needs to be said about that.

It's not just players on IR with "bad luck" injuries that have been affecting this roster.  Like some have said, AR is getting injured more and more.  Cobb missed more games every ear.  Bulaga the same.  Perry is a hypochondriac.  Now I can't help but wonder about Aaron Jones's durability as a feature back.  Somehow we need more players that get hurt less.  I'll put that on my list right after suggesting LeFluer needs to "be more like Belichick".

fightphoe93 posted:

In terms of being healthy... the biggest thing that has to happen is that #12 has to stay healthy.  That's getting harder and harder as the years go on.  As others have said, all the more reason to focus on the offensive line.  I don't know that Rodgers was ever 100% after that injury vs. the Bears in week 1.  That's 2 years in a row that he's had a fairly significant injury even though he started every game last year. 

Exactly.  You can't go in to another year with Jason "OLE" Spriggs as one of your main OL backups you just can't.  Or whatever dreg they trot out to play RG they just can't do that anymore and keep #12 upright and healthy.  

Sure some injuries are just bad luck but as someone else said Cobb has been missing a ton of games, Bulaga tries to stay upright but it is getting harder for him to to that, and I don't even want to talk about Perry.  

If you're looking at the glass half full..

This of course depends on contract dollars but, Bulaga, CMII, Brice, Tramon, Fackrell, and Lucas Patrick all could fill important back up roles. Again, not who you'd want necessarily starting but these players could be valuable "on the cheap" veterans to supplement starters. 

I think Clay will play elsewhere... somebody is going to overpay him.  I'd like to see GB resign him and put him in the middle.  He can start there.  Bulaga is tough... when he's healthy he's a quality starter.  He just can't stay healthy.  Tramon has value as defensive back.  He can play any position and not be dreadful.  Brice never amounted to shit and Patrick is just a guy.  

Depends on health, if Bulaga is healthy they don't need a RT. If Alexander and King stay healthy they don't need a starting CB. There's not a position that would put us over the top. Another Davante Adams would be really nice, a young athletic TE would be really nice, a better RG would be great, another pass rusher would be great, etc. We aren't make/break without those things though. We have Aaron Rodgers and when he's playing like Aaron Rodgers we can beat anyone anytime. We won 6 games with arguably the worst offense I've seen in GB since 2005 and a defense ravaged by injury, so it's not unrealistic to think we can get back to the playoffs with some quality depth additions and some luck with health. 

Digger, I didn't even think about King.  Perhaps they may need to consider another corner because he can't stay on the field either.  

I also don't think it is that much of a stretch to think some of the current players and filling in holes with young talent they could make some noise and sooner than we think. 

YATittle posted:

my four

Edge rusher

S

TE

RT

The Heckler posted:

Digger, I didn't even think about King.  Perhaps they may need to consider another corner because he can't stay on the field either.  

I also don't think it is that much of a stretch to think some of the current players and filling in holes with young talent they could make some noise and sooner than we think. 

starting to think maybe king can't be a full time cb - maybe he has to be spelled to slot or something from time to time or nickel/dime duty...maybe every down is too much for his body.  in that case, we do need another cb to be a high caliber.

Pakrz posted:

I think Clay will play elsewhere... somebody is going to overpay him.  I'd like to see GB resign him and put him in the middle.  He can start there.  Bulaga is tough... when he's healthy he's a quality starter.  He just can't stay healthy.  Tramon has value as defensive back.  He can play any position and not be dreadful.  Brice never amounted to shit and Patrick is just a guy.  

I think it's a flip of the coin proposition with Clay.  Agree about everything else.  

I'm not holding my breath on King.  A reoccurring shoulder injury?  Not hopeful.

JMHO, but I think the days of CM III being a starter--outside or inside-- are done.
I'd like to see him as a situational pass-rusher, but I saw nothing from this past season that would make me think he could excel at it. Not to mention he would have to accept that role and the commensurate salary.
The same applies if he were to move inside. There may be some more flexibility in a rotation or sub-packages, but the same salary/playing time concerns apply.

I don't think it was recurring as in the same shoulder.  I thought the first injured shoulder was fine and he then hurt the other one.  If it heals, no worries.

Clay was good but not great at ILB in 14.  He will be 5 years older in the fall.  He'd be great depth at both spots but considering the lack of available edge rushers in this year's FA, he'd get paid more to go somewhere else.

He had the shoulder injury issue in college I believe.  In fact, I think that was the biggest knock on him in the draft.

As far as Clay, yeah, he's not a starter who is going to play an absurd amount of downs like he has been playing.  He would be more than fine at ILB and situational outside.

The other thing with Clay, who is behind him?  No one.  Zero people.  If Fackrell, who I still don't believe is a full time guy, is taking Perry's spot there is absolutely zero option behind Clay.  That's a truckload of LBs to bring in this season.  If the contract is respectable I think you need to keep him for multiple reasons, desperation being one of them.

Yeah I think Clay will find new life as a situational rusher like Chris Long at a much lower salary. Clays production (or lack of) can be forgiven at a lower cost, paying him over $10M is ridiculous.