How many positions is GB "away" from being a SB contender?

Henry posted:

He had the shoulder injury issue in college I believe.  In fact, I think that was the biggest knock on him in the draft.

As far as Clay, yeah, he's not a starter who is going to play an absurd amount of downs like he has been playing.  He would be more than fine at ILB and situational outside.

The other thing with Clay, who is behind him?  No one.  Zero people.  If Fackrell, who I still don't believe is a full time guy, is taking Perry's spot there is absolutely zero option behind Clay.  That's a truckload of LBs to bring in this season.  If the contract is respectable I think you need to keep him for multiple reasons, desperation being one of them.

For that reason, I'll be we see one FA OLB and TWO draftees, one in the first round. Just a hunch.

Chongo posted:

3 new OL...New England's D isn't anything to write home about. Tom Brady has been in a clean pocket the entire playoffs. Look where they are.

Two new OG, a healthy Boo-lager, and a competent backup, and I think the offense will explode.

Wishing for a healthy Bulaga may be a little like planning on winning the lottery.  He has missed and played hurt in parts or most of the last 3 years - without looking it up.  I think he is a replacement candidate.  GB is really missing OL Madison Cole.  I wonder if he is coming back this year.  If he does this IS his rookie year.  He should have had plenty of playing experience last year.  That will hurt next year.  We need 2 new guys on the OL - at least.  McCray didn't stay healthy last year and Taylor had trouble stay healthy too.  In my mind only 2/5ths of the line is set for next year.  

I know King missed much of the exhibition and perhaps a couple early games due to shoulder, but I thought his later inaction was due to hamstring issues.

Pretty sure thinking Madison is ever going to return is fruitless.  Even if he does he's not only a rookie but a year out of football.  Madison essentially adds up to a blown pick through no fault of Gorp.  It's a kick in the nuts for a disintegrating Oline.

Here's my list, at a minimum :

Quality starting OLB

starting RG

two starting-quality defensive backs

swing tackle (and Bulaga heir)

optimal: 

Starting or situational pass rusher (future starter)

wide receiver

interior lineman, either take Taylor's or Linsley's job or be an heir and quality backup.

tight end

One. If the QB is great again in 2019, the Packers will be a contender. 

Not all positions are created equal.  An upgrade at one position may by its very nature improve another position.

An elite QB can make average WRs better than they are.  An above-average running game can makes pass pro better.A stud LT means help can be given to the right side of the line, etc.

heyward posted:

One. If the QB is great again in 2019, the Packers will be a contender. 

Make Aaron Great Again!!

As bad as the team was this year, they played the Rams, Pats and Hags all on the road in 4 weeks and were ahead or tied in the 4th each game.  Yes, I think there are many positions that can be upgraded, but how many positions are they away from making a run?  I would say not as many as most people think.  Injuries are always the wild card.  Execution and accountability can be a big difference maker and Gute and the new coach staff is looking to address this.  Scheduling was awful this year, but won't be every year.  Add 3-4 big upgrades which I am not saying is easy and some luck from the football gods and I can be optimistic going into the next season. 

I think that some of the most important positions have already been added. That is the new coaches. That alone could give us a few more wins. After that I would agree with others and guess somewhere between four and eight. Perhaps less if these players are more than simply impactful and turn out to be outstanding.

Mike should have grabbed a HC gig this year. 

Another bad move on his part. 

He wanted to bring Moss, Capers & Zook into NY Jets.....Jets leadership was having none of it.

Three

2 play makers on D and a coach that can get Rodgers back on track. 

ChilliJon posted:

GB lost to LA in LA by 2 then cut Ty. Then lost to NE in NE a Week later. 

Lets not overwork this. Don’t need to add 4. Or 6. Or 9. Or 15. Just need to play better football. 

Regular season football. Plus we lost anyway. Bad teams lose close games and take it as a moral victory.

GratefulPack posted:

As bad as the team was this year, they played the Rams, Pats and Hags all on the road in 4 weeks and were ahead or tied in the 4th each game. 

All of this was because of the coaching.

Crossing my fingers... 

Brainwashed Boris posted:

He wanted to bring Moss, Capers & Zook into NY Jets.....Jets leadership was having none of it.

To be fair to MM (I know you're joking, I think?), if staffing was the hang up I don't think it was an issue isolated to him. They also wanted Matt Rhule and that fell apart because of staffing. The FO is on their second coach, they don't have much more time to get it right and are seemingly dictating who is hired on staff. Ironically though, they're going to fail BECAUSE they passed on good coaches and are asserting too much control. 

One - Antonio Brown

Johnny Z posted:

One - Antonio Brown

If you had him, signed two league average guys to be their 5th and 6th offensive lineman at G/T, and acquired a premier edge rusher, then yes. 

No matter how good the offense might become, they still need at least one premier defensive player. 

Let's get some defensive talent.  I'm over the bullshit of Rodgers masking for a defense that'll flop in the playoffs.  Pettine is a good start.  Give him some talent. 

Defense, yes please.  And I look forward to the new coaching which I hope is an improvement.
For the last 3 seasons I have watched as NE's defense looked like crap in the first 4 weeks of the season and thought they were finally done.  And lo and behold, that unit comes together, with a lot of no names, and becomes a solid playoff defense.  I'm gonna say that's damn good coaching.

Let's do it here.

Do your job.

Simple philosphy. One Brian Bostick would have done well to adhere to....

Tdog posted:

Defense, yes please.  And I look forward to the new coaching which I hope is an improvement.
For the last 3 seasons I have watched as NE's defense looked like crap in the first 4 weeks of the season and thought they were finally done.  And lo and behold, that unit comes together, with a lot of no names, and becomes a solid playoff defense.  I'm gonna say that's damn good coaching.

Let's do it here.

I think with Pettine if you can get him healthy players on defense (and some better talent) look out.  Even when Pettine had to put no names on the field he had them playing hard .  I am very excited to see what could happen on defense if Pettine has some real players to put out there.

Tdog posted:

Defense, yes please.  And I look forward to the new coaching which I hope is an improvement.
For the last 3 seasons I have watched as NE's defense looked like crap in the first 4 weeks of the season and thought they were finally done.  And lo and behold, that unit comes together, with a lot of no names, and becomes a solid playoff defense.  I'm gonna say that's damn good coaching.

Let's do it here.

McVince.

BTW, if Pettine and the defense absolutely takes off exponentially next year . . . yeah.  To be fair, no coach is responsible for a shitload of injuries.

Henry posted:

Tdog posted:

Defense, yes please.  And I look forward to the new coaching which I hope is an improvement.
For the last 3 seasons I have watched as NE's defense looked like crap in the first 4 weeks of the season and thought they were finally done.  And lo and behold, that unit comes together, with a lot of no names, and becomes a solid playoff defense.  I'm gonna say that's damn good coaching.

Let's do it here.

McVince.

BTW, if Pettine and the defense absolutely takes off exponentially next year . . . yeah.  To be fair, no coach is responsible for a shitload of injuries.

No, but every coach is responsible for preparing a just-in-case plan for a possible s******* of injuries.

They don't need a homerun on the OL, so 2 Lane Taylor types would work. The need pass rushers and pass defenders. I don't care where they come from.

Fandame posted:

Henry posted:

Tdog posted:

Defense, yes please.  And I look forward to the new coaching which I hope is an improvement.
For the last 3 seasons I have watched as NE's defense looked like crap in the first 4 weeks of the season and thought they were finally done.  And lo and behold, that unit comes together, with a lot of no names, and becomes a solid playoff defense.  I'm gonna say that's damn good coaching.

Let's do it here.

McVince.

BTW, if Pettine and the defense absolutely takes off exponentially next year . . . yeah.  To be fair, no coach is responsible for a shitload of injuries.

No, but every coach is responsible for preparing a just-in-case plan for a possible s******* of injuries.

Maybe that's why McVince got shit canned?  Hell, The Wizard couldn't even prepare with healthy players.

Hungry5 posted:

They don't need a homerun on the OL, so 2 Lane Taylor types would work. The need pass rushers and pass defenders. I don't care where they come from.

Taylor took 2 years to develop.  Do we have 2 years?  Lane, Bulaga, and whoever plays RG can't stay healthy.  To develop chemistry health is a must.  

I think we need 1 more finished OL product in the draft, and another by FA.  Guys who come with solid skills so that OL integration is the only issue.  

I posted this in a different thread but makes more sense here:

How I'd fix the Packers OLB problem:

1) Cut Nick Perry.  This guy played the financial game right - showed just enough in his first 4 years to make his 5th season look like a break out and cash in on free agency, only to revert back to the injury plagued player he was early in his career once he got the money.  Big cap hit here but they just need him gone.   

2) Let CMIII walk.  It's just time.  He's 32 so he's not turning things around.  Maybe he comes back cheap in a situational role but like we saw with Jordy, Gute probably low balls him and CMIII's camp goes public with the "insulting" offer.  The media makes the Packers look bad but 2019 season will prove Gute right (just like his call on Jordy).  

3) Target Shaq Barrett in free agency.  He's been a backup the last 4 years for the Broncos, playing behind the likes of Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Bradley Chubb, and Shane Ray.  He's been productive when he's had the chance but those haven't been plentiful playing behind those four (Ray isn't special but they did use a first round pick on him, so naturally he gets the playing time over an undrafted Barrett).  He'll come relatively cheap, at least compared to the other pass rushers in this years free agent class.  Yes there are better players in free agency but with Perry's $11m dead cap hit, they just don't have the room to sign another OLB for $14m+ (which is what the top 5 guys are going to get).  He's a guy that I don't think we've seen his best yet because he hasn't been given the chance.  These are the guys you want to grab in free agency.  

4) Draft a guy at #12.  I have't paid much attention to the draft yet so not sure who it'll be.  But sounds like this draft is full of edge rushers, so should find a nice one at #12.  

5) Draft another guy late in the draft.  Gotta keep drafting pass rushers with the cupboard being so bare.  I'd prefer high upside, high downside prospect here. They don't need solid here, they need impact. 

That gives you starters in a highly draft rookie and Barrett, a good situational pass rusher in Fackrell, a quality back up in Reggie Gilbert, and a developmental guy from round 4 or 5.  I think that gives them the best set of OLBs they've had going into a season in years. 

I'm warming up to digger's theory Pettine doesn't need to focus resources on OLB.  If your highest rated prospect at #12 is an OLB then take him.  If not then go DL, OL, ILB, TE whatever.  Our DL will be the engine for pass rush and we need more talent behind them.  Go after Mosely if he's not tagged.

Ghost of Lambeau posted:

Hungry5 posted:

They don't need a homerun on the OL, so 2 Lane Taylor types would work. The need pass rushers and pass defenders. I don't care where they come from.

Taylor took 2 years to develop.  Do we have 2 years?  Lane, Bulaga, and whoever plays RG can't stay healthy.  To develop chemistry health is a must.  

I think we need 1 more finished OL product in the draft, and another by FA.  Guys who come with solid skills so that OL integration is the only issue.  

Linsley stepped in from day 1.  This guy likes Chris Lindstrom, says he could start right away.  

The Draft Network: Lindstrom

A couple of fun facts. Despite having no Von Millers, K. Mack, Joey Bosa, etc the Packers thanks to Mike Pettine got after the QB plenty, 

The Packers ranked 8th in the NFL with 44 sacks. 

And in QB pressures, also pretty damn good. Just imagine what Pettine could do with a bonified pass rusher..

Teams getting after the QB this year on defense.

Hope everybody who celebrates had a great Christmas. We'll have some interesting situational stats coming out soon so keep your eyes peeled!#DUUUVAL #LARams #GoPats #HereWeGo #RavensFlock #Skol #ChiefsKingdom #GoPackGo #GoSaints pic.twitter.com/0DS9eNOqd6

— NFL Matchup on ESPN (@NFLMatchup) December 26, 2018

To get this team back on a Super Bowl track, they need to fix OLB (addressed above), OL, and safety.  Those are the first tier needs.  Second tier needs are slot WR and TE.  I think they're set at other positions (maybe not ideal, but they have the players to develop).  

OL: Bakhtiari, Taylor and Linsley are the only positions they are set at.  Bulaga is in a free agent year but i just don't trust him.  He guts it out but seems like he just can't finish games.  This makes a backup OT mandatory, and Spriggs isn't it.  I'm not a McCray fan either. They really need a starting guard and a good OT to be set at this position.   OL is hard to find, so not sure where they're going to get this.  

Safety: Cupboard is bare here.  They need at a minimum, one starter and really could use 2.  I would draft one at #30 or 45 (if value is there) but they really can't afford to sign a big name here (ie: Thomas, Collins or Mathieu).  IMO, they screwed up big on Tramon Williams.  He's a $6.4m cap hit this year ($4.75m if they cut him) and he can't play CB and not sure he's that good at safety.  So that prohibits them from signing a big name guy.  

As for second tier needs:

TE: Lewis and Kendricks are free agents.  I can see Kendricks coming back for another season but don't see Lewis.  Big question mark is Graham.  It's hard to evaluate him b/c Rodgers has just never really used the TE for long periods of time.  There was a half season of Finley but that's about it over Rodgers entire career.  Maybe the new offense changes that.  IMO, you keep Graham and Kendricks and draft a prospect late (and not a blocking TE, get a guy who can actually run).  I've heard the two Iowa TEs are gonna be good but again, Rodgers just hasn't used the TE so not sure you can invest in a first rounder without guaranteeing he'll be heavily used in the offense.  

Slot WR: They're set on the outside with Adams, MVS, ESB and Moore.  Ok maybe "set" is strong but you have the talent here to develop.  I'd bring back Allison but depends on price.  They lack a Slot WR though.  This is an odd suggestion but I'd sign Cole Beasley.  He'll be cheap for a couple years and you really just need a guy that can sit in zones and run slants for 8-10 yards.  

IMO, they're fairly set at QB, ILB, DL, outside WR, RB, and CB.  Maybe they're not incredible but at every position you have guys that are either established or highly drafted/talented guys who are on a path to establishing themselves.  They just need guys to step up.  

CUPackFan posted:

 Safety: Cupboard is bare here.  They need at a minimum, one starter and really could use 2.  I would draft one at #30 or 45 (if value is there) but they really can't afford to sign a big name here (ie: Thomas, Collins or Mathieu).  IMO, they screwed up big on Tramon Williams.  He's a $6.4m cap hit this year ($4.75m if they cut him) and he can't play CB and not sure he's that good at safety.  So that prohibits them from signing a big name guy.  

This isn't accurate. GB will have enough cap room to sign at least 1 big name FA, possibly 2. Mathieu is below Collins in tier but let's also remember how many quality safeties in the last few years sat without contracts. A lot of guys sat and sat well into June before finally signing for far less than expected. 

Gute isn't afraid of going after franchise tagged players either. It wouldn't shock me to see him go after a transition tagged player like he did with the Bears. 

From Over the Cap:

According to the NFL Players Association, the Packers will carry over $7.8 million of unused cap money heading into the 2019 season. It's the most carryover money out of all the teams in the NFC North and it's the third-most carryover money in the NFC only behind the Dallas Cowboys ($11.7 million) and the San Francisco 49ers ($35 million).

Per Over the Cap, the Packers are projected to have $36,546,760 of salary cap space. So with the cap carryover from 2018, Green Bay will likely have $44,346760 of cap space for 2019. Of course, this is assuming that the Packers don't sign pending free agents such as Randall Cobb, Clay Matthews and Lance Kendricks. It's likely the Packers could let all three players walk.

I also think they'll cut Perry. Which while yes still a big cap hit, results in an overall cap savings of I believe 3 million. 

As for Bulaga, keep him and your quality back up OL problem is solved. You need a starting RG and RT. But Bulaga would make a fine rotational back up at either position. 

If you keep Bulaga and he is able to play he will be your starter (graded out very highly in games he played in last season), the problem is how games will he play in? 

Don't disagree that they CAN sign a big name free agent, but it's about at what position.  I look at spending by position and with Williams already making $6.25m in 2018, do you really want to put another $8-10m at safety?  With the backups, you'd be spending nearly $18m on safeties, or 10% of your cap.  If Packers want to go big, I'd go big at pass rusher, not safety.  Get a guy like Reid or Boston for $3-4m per year rather than go for Collins or Mathieu at $10m (Collins may actually be higher).  Just my opinion though.