ILB Tracker: Preseason 2015

Let me ask you a question Pistol

There are 11+ guys on defense - do you really believe that moving one of them on some of the plays can account for all of those improvements ?

(Clay only played inside in base defense, which accounts for a paltry 25 % of the total snaps)

 

Or, is it more likely that several changes were made to all aspects of the defense and that the sum of all those changes is responsible for the improved defense down the stretch?

 

Bob McGinn did a pretty good job of laying it all out in an article he wrote at the end of 2014. There was a lot more than just moving Clay on 25 % of the snaps- and that makes a lot more sense than what many fans cling to as the sole reason for the improvements

 

Here's the article, and of course you're welcome to disagree -  but at least give it a read

Its a very well-written piece imo

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...753z1-287430621.html

 

So let's add it up.

The talent, speed, size and nerve of their cornerbacks enabled the Packers to turn around an inept first-half performance against the run by permitting Capers to remove a safety from coverage and consistently creep him into the box.

At the same time, Capers blitzed even more knowing his cornerbacks would hold tight regardless of coverage or opponent.

That's the definition of a job well done.

 

Capers made adjustments across the board and those adjustments were instrumental in putting a better defense on the field. The best use of Clay is "all over" and sentencing him to a life inside, banging guards is a poor use of rare resources imo.

Others feel differently.  I just hoped to show you a better view of the Big Picture

Surely I could have done it without the snark, but I haven't evolved that far yet 

I agree it wasn't all Clay Matthews moving inside as perception seems to hold. Figure, we had a rookie starting S in that backfield. It is going to take any rookie at least 4-8 games to get up to speed with the NFL game, and get into a comfort zone.

 

I suspect we will see some failings in our coverage the first half of this season, while everyone gets to learn their roles and surrounding personnel - especially the rookies. Might cost us 2 or 3 games in the first half of the season.  2nd half, I think this D could be one of the best we have seen in quite some time.

 

I do agree with pistol that Matthews game improved moving inside. I think he became more effective, vs. when he was strictly used at OLB, where it seemed he was becoming less effective. He's too talented to be a one trick pony.

Not seeing any snark Satori.

 

Sure Matthews was only one piece.  One VERY BIG  and ominous one, smack dab in the middle.  So now the entire offensive line has to worry about him, instead of just one side. And if you're saying it was only 25% of the snaps I'll take your word for it, but offenses don't know that: they have to be ready for it on 100% of the snaps.  

 

And really, if it only ended up being 25% of the snaps, isn't that all the more reason to leave it as is?  It's a new arsenal of ways to use one of their best weapons.  Why not add it to the repertoire?  

 

Seeing Matthews in the middle, to me it just looked right.  He's taller, he's surveying the whole field.  He can (and did) go everywhere.  He looked like a natural there.  He looked a little like Urlacher in his day.  Even if you disagree with that, the numbers don't lie:  Mathews got the majority his sacks after the switch.  You don't mess with production.

Whatever. It is supposed to be fun.

 

And, yeah, I happen to think James Vaughters will be a great player for us if we can keep him around and get him a year or two of development. Yoops. C'mon. All you have to do is disagree if you don't think so.

 

I guess I like "football players" as opposed to the workout warriors. Glad Ted is filling our roster with more of those the past two drafts, maybe three. Have you ever seen film on James Vaughters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcy2xoZI60Q

 

It is part of the reason I want to keep some of these recently added players over some underperforming vets. I believe firmly that Ted Thompson got away from drafting the true "football players" in 2011 and 2012. The only real, key contributors we have out of those 18 players drafted are Randall Cobb, Mike Daniels and Casey Hayward. I refuse to talk about another one of the players picked during that time. Keeping players who consistently underperform on the 53 could cost us the opportunity to develop someone who might prove far better.

 

James Vaughters was the most productive LB per snap in the entire 2015 draft per PFF.

And my thing is I used to think exactly they way you do, I thought Christoper Darkins was gonna be phenomenal running back for us because how dominant he played in the pre season, boy was I rong, It's because of players like him why I simply won't drink preseason Kool Aid anymore

Yoops, you make a great point about preseason Kool Aid. And, I agree with you.

 

While we are in preseason now, and I post stuff on OTAs, TC practices and stats during this time, the fact that a lot of this stuff is compiled against a lot of other variables, 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers, vanilla schemes, etc. is not lost on me.

 

I'm really just wanting to get the best guys we have at all positions, while not losing out on those who show good potential. I've got some favorite players too, but keeping an open mind towards that, as well as towards others I'm not as high on. They'll figure it out, and I just hope we keep the best players we are able to in order to win now and in the future. Some guys can be hidden on the PS, while others cannot. I feel Vaughters is one of those who cannot be stashed there for further development. He'd get snatched up. Makes those roster choices for the final 53 that much more difficult.

wasn't sure where to post this but it probably belongs here.

anyone know when Nate Palmer will lose the club on his hand, if at all this year?

BB I asked the same thing in another thread. I just did a search, only thing I could find is from back on Aug 3rd.

Sounds like it's his finger(s). At that time of the article he didn't know how long he'd have to wear it

  http://espn.go.com/blog/green-...lay-matthews-absence

"James Vaughters was the most productive LB per snap in the entire 2015 draft per PFF."

 

And that got him a ticket to the practice squad.

I'm swearing off anything ILB related for a while, but I still believe in these players.

I asked someone who might know:

Mike Clemens: McCarthy won't give hardly any injury info until Weds, Week 1. Nate seemed to think he' d get it off by now 2 weeks ago, but he hasn't been around. they could use another hand on defense.

Where is Doc Benni?

Performing surgery, I believe.

Glad to see your enthusiasm Trophies... and your admittance.

 

Accept this fact.  The GPB do NOT play rookies.  When they do, it's at STs and then later in the season as they have earned their spot.  We can speculate, kvetch, ponder, blather, whine, beg, and squeal, but fact is, it's the way the GBP work.

 

I actually find it interesting that Palmer has earned his week 1 starting call at ILB.  I am sure the Bores do too.  Most greatly noted is the fact that the last time he played he still had a club at the end of his arm.  

 

It's real time.  Now the games begin.

Squealing is frowned upon in this establishment.

Cavetoad,

 

Everything I saw from Nate Palmer since the OTAs prior to his hand injury was one of the more impressive progressions of any player on our roster from last year to this year. I guess more than anything, I was taken by his physical development, his confidence in play, and his speed. If you watched him closely in preseason, he was at the right place most of the time, but was limited by the club. If that comes off he should be really good. Jake Ryan came on looking like a lost rookie with his head swimming early, but he progressed very well through most of the preseason too. We have improved talent at ILB.

 

Adding to what Satori said earlier, the times we use base D is minimal. The Packers switch to 6 or 7 DBs for about 75% of their defensive snaps. What I love most, is Ted added some ballers in our secondary. Every one of the new rookies hits like a ton, and has shown themselves adept at forcing TOs, whether it be by INT or FFs. They all play with more speed than we had with House and Williams, and are adept at finishing plays. They will take some lumps early in the year, but I suspect they will be looking very solid by midseason. My only concern is with the play of Shields and Hayward. Hopefully, they both play well, and if not, we have talent behind them the likes of which we may have never seen in GB. That is a DEEP secondary.

 

ILB and CB were our two greatest needs for improvement, in team speed, recognition, instincts for the game, and in shutting down the opposition via pass or run. Looks like we are improved. This will make for some fun football to watch this season, added to a very potent offense.

 

Our plus/minus in Takeaways is going to be over the top this season. Would be great to see our ILBs forcing a bunch of TOs, but I have complete confidence our secondary will. Maybe we rival that stretch we had between 2009-2011.

The Packers worked out ILB Jeff Luc 6-1 256 out of Cincinnati on Friday. Kind of cool. I liked him as a later pick this past draft. Hits like a freight train. Glad the guy is on Ted's radar.

 

Power­-lifter playing inside linebacker. Thick through his chest, waist and trunk. Has enough upper-body strength to torque blockers off of him. Adequate functional quickness. Plays with outstanding balance at contact and plays the game on his feet. Packs vicious wallop on ball carriers when he gets body moving. Has strong hands that rip the ball from the clutches of offensive players in forcing fumbles. Recovered four fumbles and finished with 6.5 sacks in 2014. Nightmare for interior linemen and running backs as A-­gap blitzer.

Somebody....ANYbody to stop the run & NOT fall backwards 5 yards when making a tackle. P-L-E-A-S-E!!

Or to come piling in after the fact and get credit for an assisted tackle

Another article (I forgot where) also made the point that GB did not face as many 1'000 yard RB's after the Saints game. So our run defense might not have been as good as the numbers show. However, I think we did ok vs. Dallas and Seattle. In those games MB and Barrington did well to hold the RB,s to short gains. I expect that without MB the defense will have to rely more on all its ILB's against Forte, Charles and Marshawn.

Actually PackerPatrick, Barrington didn't fare well v. neither Dallas nor Seattle. Sadly.

 

Murray had 25 carries for 123 yds and a TD.

Lynch had 25 carries for 157 yds and a TD.

 

Barrington was a turnstile. Got sucked up by blockers constantly and was often late. I'm hoping like hell that changes. He also gave up a huge pass play to Lynch to set up one of their scores.

 

And, we have a murderers row of good, solid RBs coming at us our first 8 weeks. Matt Forte, Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles, Carlos Hyde and Reggie Bush, Tre Mason, Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, CJ Anderson, Jonathan Stewart. Not unlike last year's start. Hopefully we are better stopping the run this season. We will need that.

Bumping this now that Barrington is out for the season.  

 

Looks like it's going to be CMIII at ILB for the majority of his snaps from here on out.  

 

I like him there (reference the INT vs. Chicago that sealed the win), but this is not how I wanted to see it happen.  This is precipitously thin ice.

We will be fine at ILB.

I think Mulumba can play inside too.

Give Ryan some snaps.

That is probably inevitable.

There's a reason Ryan got zero defensive snaps against the Bears. They'll stick with Palmer as much as possible.

I read that Bishop might be available. http://nflspinzone.com/2015/09...bay-packers-reunion/

 

Palmer was the starter next to Barrington so I would expect they'll stick with him. The question is do they put their best pass rusher inside for the rest of the season? I'd go with Ryan, who is a true ILB, and keep Clay on the edge. They still have the option of moving Matthews inside when they bring Neal or Perry in with Peppers still on the field - we saw that often last year.

Was thinking a heavy dose of Matthews against their RT would be really good. Can see him rotating there with Mike Neal most of the game, with Ryan hitting the middle with Palmer for some reps. Could be fun to see.

I watched the NFLN game replay last night. I specifically watched Barrington on every snap he was in.

 

Brutal.

 

If you want to feel better about losing another starter for the season, just catch a game replay and watch #58.

Same reason it took forever for Desmond Bishop to get on the field.

Bam Bam has a lot of limitations, granted. But to be fair he was playing on one wheel in that game before it forced him to sit, and ultimately IRed for the season.

Watch the first two defensive series.

 

It is not unfair to say that Barrington was out of position or beat on most of the positive yardage plays for the Bears.

 

Instead of filling the hole, he was too easily blocked on several of Forte's runs and left huge running lanes.

 

Jeffreys catch on the crossing route was right in front of Barrington who was moving in the wrong direction seemingly unaware that the opponent's top WR was entering his coverage zone.

 

The foot could have been bothering him but there is no way he was our best option to start that game at ILB. That is on the coaches.

It's not like the coaches have a lot of good choices to work with. Barrington may have been the best of several bad options. TT shouldn't be given a pass for his failure to adequately address the position.

This wasn't an anomaly. Look at the NFCC game Marshawn Lynch highlights. Same stuff as many of the games he played in last season, and what we saw from him all preseason. Nick Perry was right along with him missing, missing, missing. Barrington's problem has always been getting to the point of attack to make plays. He missed far more than he made, mostly because he chose the wrong spots or was blocked out and couldn't get free.

 

Brutal. Indeed.

 

FreeSafety, you are dead nuts on here. And, this is on the coaches for putting him that high on the depth chart. At some point, Dom has to let his best players play. Mike McCarthy should be seeing to that. If Dom's D is that complex, where calling it on field trumps playing ability, why don't they just have Matthews make the calls and get everyone aligned???

 

Looks like that job is Palmer's now. Here's to him having a great game. I think he will.

I had high expectations for Barrington.  I think it was more like I was praying Barrington would be a good inside LB.  The only thing I saw him doing was get pushed around.  I am not worried about this loss. Either someone we have will be better or at worse will be like Barrington.  No loss.

Keep in mind Palmer was still playing with a rather bulky brace on his hand last week. This after playing with a club in PS.

 

As that brace gets smaller that will only help his dexterity. CMIII got better and better as his splint got smaller.

Right, but Ryan is still going to play.  Inevitable when you're #3 on the depth chart.

http://www.packers.com/news-an...01-8e67-fec7f0da2637

 

Jack from Concord, MA

Is there a magical free-agent linebacker pickup similar to the magical WR pickup of James Jones? Unfortunately, ILB is of little depth, opposed to WR. Who has to step up?

I disagree. I think the “woods” are full of run-stuffing linebackers. The “woods” are not full of linebackers of equal skill against the run and the pass; those are the Clay Matthews types and they are few and far between. Nate Palmer stepped up against the run in Chicago and his play improved as the game wore on. He’s being counted on to step up again.