Is Aaron Rodgers a HOF QB?

Boris posted:

Just because I don't see Brady as the GOAT, doesn't mean I don't recognize his accomplishments. I'd put him in the top 10 certainly. We're talking about QB'ing not team accomplishments like World Championships.

For me it's Automatic Otto or Unitas.

There are 2 players that have a shot to surpass those 2 but they have more work to do.

One is Rodgers....The other is a player I haven't seen come into the league since Rodgers and that player is Patrick Mahomes.

The both have ongoing careers so let's see what happens when they're done. Lotsa football to play yet.

We're discussing the GOAT and you dare even mention Patrick Mahomes... a guy that has been in the league 3 years and hasn't won shit?  

We deserve better. 

Blair Kiel posted:

But I’ll still take Starr.

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

Pakrz posted:

Blair Kiel posted:

But I’ll still take Starr.

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

No offense Pakrz,  but with everything that was written and broadcast at the time of Bart's death, do you really need to ask  "Why"?

Pakrz posted: 

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

To answer with a question, why not?

Possibly the most intelligent QB ever.
The leader of an offense (if not team) that won 5 World Championships in 7 years, including 3 consecutive (unmatched to this day).
League MVP.
4 time Prob Owler.
2 time Superb Owl MVP.
9-1 in playoff games.
104.8 QBR in those playoff games (highest in league history to this day).

ammo posted:

Pakrz posted:

Blair Kiel posted:

But I’ll still take Starr.

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

No offense Pakrz,  but with everything that was written and broadcast at the time of Bart's death, do you really need to ask  "Why"?

I take no offense.  Bart Starr was an excellent human being and a damn fine football player.  But I don't think he's even in the conversation for the GOAT.

His best season was probably 1966 where he threw for 2,257 yards, 14 tds and 3 picks.  He also played for a HOF coach and the luxury of having 11 HOF players on his team.  Thats unheard of and one hell of an advantage, no?

When I hear some argue against Brady being the GOAT and then want to put Bart Starr in the conversation, I struggle to understand why.  

As Timpranillo previously stated, Brady has:

6 Super Bowl Wins

2nd all time in TDs (and 12 behind 1st)

3rd all time in passing yards (will move into 2nd this Sunday)

4th all time in QB Rating,

2nd in INT Rate

Most wins in NFL History

2nd highest winning percentage all time

He also has three league MVP awards, 4 Super Bowl MVP awards, 14 Pro Bowl selections, has the 3rd highest career passer rating in league history, etc.

Not to mention the guy is 42 years old and still tearing up the league.  The list goes on and on and on with this guy and some people want to dismiss his accomplishments and put a guy like Starr on a pedestal? 

Yea, Packer or not... it doesn't make a damn bit of sense. 

Timmy! posted:

Pakrz posted: 

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

To answer with a question, why not?

Possibly the most intelligent QB ever. Based on absolutely nothing. 
The leader of an offense (if not team) that won 5 World Championships in 7 years, including 3 consecutive (unmatched to this day). I'm certain a HOF coach and 11 HOF teammates had a role in that. 
League MVP. Brady has more. 
4 time Prob Owler. Brady has more.
2 time Superb Owl MVP. Brady has more.
9-1 in playoff games. Brady has started 40 playoff games and won 30 of them.
104.8 QBR in those playoff games (highest in league history to this day). Brady is 90.5 so Starr has him here. 

Timmy! posted:

Pakrz posted: 

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

To answer with a question, why not?

Possibly the most intelligent QB ever.
The leader of an offense (if not team) that won 5 World Championships in 7 years, including 3 consecutive (unmatched to this day).
League MVP.
4 time Prob Owler.
2 time Superb Owl MVP.
9-1 in playoff games.
104.8 QBR in those playoff games (highest in league history to this day).

I just cringe at dimple boy’s responses at his post game talks, and then I hear my boyfriend’s press conference.  No comparison, Aaron is just the smartest QB out there.  Brady still sounds like a college QB, ah, everyone plays so tough, O line did their job and everyone played really hard.  Aaron Just has the smarts to sound so much more intelligent.  

Some say he is the most stable genius ever.

ammo posted:

So I'm listening to the Will Cain show while driving today.  Question, "What active QB would you want to win a much needed game for you?"  Not sure who the voters were but Brady got 14, Mahomes, Brees, Big Ben and Deshon Watson got 1 each. Not even one vote for AR12. 

He must not have voted if there was no Dak Prescott. 

A HOFer? Can you vote someone MVP of the league TWICE and not vote him into the hall? If no, one or the other is diminished.

and seriously did anyone just see dimple boy’s answer on them winning tonight?? “Can I just say hello to my wife?”  Really??  What a dufus.  And they’re the best team in the NFL,  but seriously...”can I just say hello to my wife”???

ammo posted:

Pakrz posted:

Blair Kiel posted:

But I’ll still take Starr.

I hear this now and again from Packer fans... 

I have one question.

Why?

No offense Pakrz,  but with everything that was written and broadcast at the time of Bart's death, do you really need to ask  "Why"?

I think sometimes when we talk about the best QBs of all time we get really wrapped around eye popping stats without truly understanding how great a player was.  I also think that we kind of forget the the NFL was playing before the ESPN era.  Bart didn't have stats that jump out at you (24,000 yards 152 TDs) but sometimes you have to look at the context of when he played.  Defenses played DEFENSE back then and they didn't chuck the ball around like they do now.  He won and won and won as Lombardi's field general.

Unless I missed it I haven't seen anyone mention Joe Montana yet and am of the opinion that he has to be in the discussion..  He had very good stats 40,000 yards, 273 TD, 92 Passer rating and he won like crazy.  

Goldie posted:

"and seriously did anyone just see dimple boy’s answer on them winning tonight?? “Can I just say hello to my wife?”  Really??  What a dufus.  And they’re the best team in the NFL,  but seriously...”can I just say hello to my wife”???"

 "I just cringe at dimple boy’s responses at his post game talks, and then I hear my boyfriend’s press conference.  No comparison, Aaron is just the smartest QB out there.  Brady still sounds like a college QB, ah, everyone plays so tough, O line did their job and everyone played really hard.  Aaron Just has the smarts to sound so much more intelligent."

Admittedly my sample size is very small.  But every time I have seen a post game Brady interview he says hello to his wife.  I suspect that is part of his routine.  Giving credit to his OL and others publically is a smart idea.  I shows he valued their contributions to making the offense go and keeping him upright.  Just a guess - but I think they will play as hard for him the next game - smart.  Also, in the post game interviews I saw Brady does go on to answer every question the reporter asks - unlike his coach.  To reporters he seems to come off as approachable - which is important for them. 

But so does AR in his own way.  He just doesn't have a wife to say hi to.  I would not question the intelligence of either of those guys.  Now, what they say in public and what they say behind the scenes might be very different.  But we will never know.  Oh, BTW, neither Rodgers last Sunday or Brady Thursday night threw a TD pass.  What are we to think - washed up?  NO, both are likely to come back and throw 4 TDs the next game. 

And I would not question the intelligence of Bart Starr either.  But he played in a different offense.  The run was front and center for Vince Lombardi.  Receivers could be mugged in comparison to todays allowable coverage.  If the NFL had changed the rules for them like they are today, their offenses would look very different as well.  Lombardi, Landry, and Billicheat all know how to take advantage of their situations in life - some more extreme than others. 

ammo posted:

So I'm listening to the Will Cain show while driving today.  Question, "What active QB would you want to win a much needed game for you?"  Not sure who the voters were but Brady got 14, Mahomes, Brees, Big Ben and Deshon Watson got 1 each. Not even one vote for AR12. 

Where is Cain's show broadcast out of? Boston? I never listen to the likes of Cain.

NYC but from Texas. Biggest Cowboy homer out there - rivals Skippy. 

Is the greatest QB one who executes a perfect game plan perfectly or the one who makes lemonade from lemons most weeks?

I believe the most difficulty in comparing QBs comes not from their era but from their responsibilities. Paul Brown called the plays for Otto Graham (The first to do so). Starr called his own. Some players have almost unlimited freedom to change plays. P Manning did. Rodgers did until this year. Maybe they overused that freedom. Maybe it was the only reason they won even 1 SB (Manning's 2nd was solely because of his defense- he was awful) It appears Brady does not feel the need to change plays often, even if he has the option.

No coach is likely to state a QB pulled his ass out of the fire by ignoring instructions. Most won't go too far in criticizing their starter, either. I think Rodgers last year was as apparent in his discontent as I've ever seen a QB.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/24/...aqC8LrAh5tBiqPDVZm2E

1st ballot.

There’s the answer. 
Heckler and GD scratched all over it but didn’t say it. Osh did. 

ammo posted:

So I'm listening to the Will Cain show while driving today. 

Well, there's your problem.

Driving in LaCrosse. Couldn't find anything else I liked.     I know, another problem. 

ammo posted:

Driving in LaCrosse. Couldn't find anything else I liked.     I know, another problem. 

Yo, ammo.....where are you??  Would buy you a drink or two if I knew you were in town.    

A budding romance?

Pakrz posted:

A budding romance?

Damn right, always want to see fellow timesfour folk. And I did meet ammo way, way, way back......lots of us had a get together in Mauston Wisconsin.   

Yah, doing a drink is impossible as I was picking up 4 highschool boys who do special programs in LaCrosse.   Pakrz  would throw the book at me.   

Ghost of Lambeau posted:

 

Admittedly my sample size is very small. 

I'm really sorry to hear that, Bro.

Goldie posted:

Pakrz posted:

A budding romance?

Damn right, always want to see fellow timesfour folk. And I did meet ammo way, way, way back......lots of us had a get together in Mauston Wisconsin.   

Sounds like a fun meating. 

Unitas and Starr are the 2 best. Not about stats, not about titles or MVPs, but about their play.

Sometimes when I feel really shitty about myself and my life I like to play the game of IF  "It makes me feel a lot better about myself and has even helped in the bedroom."

You all sound like a bunch of Vikings fans with your "if's"

- IF only  I was born in Wisconsin instead of Minnesota.....

-IF only Bud Grant was born a blonde....

-IF only Gary Anderson was Irish.......

-IF only Randy Moss didn't have so many friends in NYC.......

-IF only Tracy Porter had never been born.....

-IF only the Germans hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor.....

IF

conjunction

noun

Boris posted:

Goldie posted:

Pakrz posted:

A budding romance?

Damn right, always want to see fellow timesfour folk. And I did meet ammo way, way, way back......lots of us had a get together in Mauston Wisconsin.   

Sounds like a fun meating. 

Let me know if there's a get together.  I'll show up not tell anyone who I am or join the group, eat 5 gas station burritos and just continually crop dust everyone.  If you see a guy eating burritos in the corner that is not me.  

I've never met anyone from this site. As far as I know none of you actually exist.

I've met Henry...and he still doesn't exist.

I'm full Deep State . . . and I'm a large talking rabbit

Henry and Harvey 

MichiganPacker2 posted:

Another QB that never enters the conversation probably deserves consideration. If I told you that a QB had accomplished the following what you would you say. 

A win-loss record of 120-93

Took his team to the playoffs 6 times. 4 Division playoffs and 1 Conference title game appearance. 

Lead a team to a 14-2 record one year but got beat by Brady/Belichick in the playoffs. 

381 TDS and 182 interceptions. 

Thrown for more than 20 TDS 13 years in a row. 

Thrown for over 4000 yards 10 times in a season

Made 8 Pro Bowls

That all looks like a HOF resume, right ?

That's Philip Rivers. 

****.q Philip Rivers, that ****.qing sauce can. 

Hungry5 posted:

I've never met anyone from this site. As far as I know none of you actually exist.

I did say I was a ghost.  What did you expect?  

If a tree fell in the forest and no one was around to see it fall - did it really fall?

If I didn't exist to type this - did it really get typed?  

These are mysteries for the physically present and unimpaired to answer.  

Physicist just proved larger mass objects also are subject to quantum superposition, which means there will be two of me crop dusting any get together.

That was a fascinating article.  Suggests all kinds of possibilities.  I knew they had done it with individual atoms before but molecules is a game changer. 

I met @Iowacheese once before he changed his name to @justintimberlake 

DH13 posted:

That was a fascinating article.  Suggests all kinds of possibilities.  I knew they had done it with individual atoms before but molecules is a game changer. 

Link?