Is It Just Me, Or Are the Packers Regressing?

GBP1Member

How pathetic was the Packers performance today? HUGELY PATHETIC!

I mean, come on. What is wrong with the defense? At a point in the season where this team should be getting stronger, they have gotten distinctly worse. The NYJs could do nothing bad today. Give them credit. They executed perfectly in the 1st half. But the Packers "D" could not have stopped an egg from rolling off the counter either. They outplayed, outmanned, outcoached and outdistanced.

Then the offense takes over and begins to make a few plays to answer the Jets. But the Oline gets beat. Favre fumbles, etc, etc, etc. Green has some good runs too. But MM calls some bone-head pass plays...again. Subsequently leaving long yardage downs and stalling the drive.

Not to mention that goofy series of plays right after the onside kick. What a momentum-killer they were.

The Special Teams gave up some more big plays again. Nice job guys...grrrr!

Back to the "D". This unit seems to have lost its heart and confidence. Guys are not playing as a team. And I think there may be some dissension among the players, who have become disgusted with the current coaching staff and their inability to get things right.

Just my humble opinion. Oh well...what more can we say?

12/3/064:10 PM

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

CoPackFanMember

When we won 3 out of 4 against Miami, Arizona and the queens, I thought we were heading in the right direction. We were playing smart and looking like the young'ens were really coming along. But since then we have been on a hard slide down with a shutout against NE, Monday's loss to Seattle and then the debacle today.

At SF and another rookie coach next week. Who knows?

12/3/064:20 PM

Blair KielGOOD OL' FAKE BLAIR KIEL - My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!

Sadly, I agree. I felt damn good about this team all year, Chicago, New England and Seattle games notwithstanding. This was a stinker. An unmotivated ass-whooping. The worst thing is I feel like having a drink with Kworst.....

12/3/064:35 PM

bigdoggyjude

Well given the number of rookies we are staring, and the notion that rookies always hit a wall after ten or so games, maybe we shouldn't expect too many more victories or even competitve games...

12/3/064:36 PM

GBP1Member

The first half defense was a sieve. Their poor play immediately put the onus on the "o" to keep up with NYJs. The "d" lost this game all the way.

12/3/064:38 PM

heywardKaty Perry is bouncy

We have one rookie starter on defense. Is hitting the rookie wall the reason the Jets put up 31 points and over 300 yards in 30 minutes? Maybe poor coaching and a lack of talent has just a little something to do with it.

12/3/064:39 PM

grbaypackMember

quote:
Originally posted by bigdoggyjude:
Well given the number of rookies we are staring, and the notion that rookies always hit a wall after ten or so games, maybe we shouldn't expect too many more victories or even competitve games...

The rookies you talk about mainly can be found on the Oline ... they did okay today blocking for Ahman Green. They weren't really a major reason for the loss today. The rookie excuse doesn't hold water. The only rookie of note on defense that is playing a big role is Hawk, and he's been one of their better players.

12/3/064:40 PM

jjwalkerMember

Yes, it seems like each week the team gets worse. They have injuries but nothing like last year. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

12/3/064:45 PM

MichiganPackerMember

The Packers have two decent to above average CBs, Kampmann is a solid player and Ryan Pickett has played well. In addition, Hawk and Barnett woudl start for a lot of teams. KGB is at least an average pass rush threat. Thus, at least 7 of the players on defense are decent players. Either the other four (Cole, Collins, Manuel, and Poppinga) are so terrible that the coaches can't do anything to hide their deficiencies or the defensive coaching is awful. In my opinion, the coaching is the more likely problem. How many times do we have to see wide open receivers running free to ensure that the defensive staff changes next year. Our receivers are average (Driver and Jennings) but I'd probably take them over what the Jets have.

12/3/064:48 PM

the-iconMember

honest opinion of the teams main current problems....

Offense
-----------
At the moment only two good receivers and one is playing injured. The third and fourth receivers are essentially worthless.

Martin out takes away a weapon that teams were having to respect.

Starting 3 rookie onlineman is just too much. Tausher needs to get back. During the year they have had some good success running the ball, even Heron had one big game. I think that scheme is on the right track.

Defense
-------------
Bad coaching

Manuel sucks

12/3/064:55 PM

SmedleyMember

quote:
Originally posted by bigdoggyjude:
Well given the number of rookies we are staring, and the notion that rookies always hit a wall after ten or so games, maybe we shouldn't expect too many more victories or even competitve games...

I mentioned that to Buffy earlier. I've never thought it held much weight but maybe it does contribute some.

In addition, Jennings has been dinged up the last month or so. The other rookie wideouts are seeing significant playing time and figuring it out. Got a rookie DB seeing more playing time as of late (although I think they got a bigger problem with the veteran safety - 22). If Barnett doesn't have a club for a hand, maybe he has an INT in this game.

Some of the veterans have been disappointing. No. 22, I mentioned earlier. Franks all year, did anyone read Favre's lips on one of Franks drops? It looked like he said "f'ing Bubba". What is Kabeer doing?

One particularily frustrating thing. The first defensive guy to make contact with the ball carrier almost never tackles him or even stops him some. We have way too many guys who seem to get in position and are not able to make the stop.

But I generally like the young guys and am optimistic that this team is heading in the right direction. Hope Favre is just as optimistic.

12/3/065:02 PM

GBnativeMember

It really appeared to me that this one was as much on the coaching staff as much as the players. The jets appeared to be listening in on the Packers defensive huddle before they called their plays. Every time the Packers ran one of those stupid zone blitzes it ended up with Kampman or Montgomery trying to cover a running back on a circle route. Home many times was Poppinga lined up in single man coverage on a tight end split out very wide. The jets consistenty used their formations to create mismatches and the Packers' coaches apparently had no answers. On the other hand, look what Harris did with Coles, 3 catches for 28 yards. Harris may be the only guy on the defense that is used properly.

12/3/065:04 PM

ToonerMember

Young team full of injuries. That has to be a factor.

12/3/065:17 PM

Orlando WolfMember

quote:
Originally posted by jjwalker:
Yes, it seems like each week the team gets worse. They have injuries but nothing like last year. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

They have had a few injuries but the sad part is that no starter has been lost to a season ending injury this year. How about the size of Barnett's club? It looked like he had a basketball taped up to his hand.

12/3/065:18 PM

kworstSour Grapes

As I have said many many times, if you are going to rebuild with young players, they have to be GOOD young players. How many street free agents are on this team? how many just "guys" are on this team.

Just a bad team over all. Bad coaching, bad players, bad management.

Just a terrible situation that is not going to get any better any time soon.

The rodgers era? ha, that mechanical bust is a joke.

the rookie OL? How many times you see them get pushed back into the back field.

chris francis - ruvell martin - ha

mike montgomery - at least he is good at off sides

corey williams? he is nothing

bad bad team

3-13

2007 - 2008

12/3/065:23 PM

Ubetcha

This is the one thing that bothers me about this team right now. I didn't expect them to really challenge in the division this year considering all the totally new offense and all. But we are at that point in the season where we should start seeing glimmers of good things to come for next season. Instead, the wheels are really starting to come off. This points to coaching. I really want to see McCarthy succeed, but I get the feeling his learning curve is really steep. Fortunately I couldn't see the game today but watching the score come in by quarter was frightening. Even the Lions gave the Pats a good contest today. We were never in that game.

12/3/065:27 PM

grbaypackMember

quote:
Originally posted by MichiganPacker:
The Packers have two decent to above average CBs, Kampmann is a solid player and Ryan Pickett has played well. In addition, Hawk and Barnett woudl start for a lot of teams. KGB is at least an average pass rush threat. Thus, at least 7 of the players on defense are decent players. Either the other four (Cole, Collins, Manuel, and Poppinga) are so terrible that the coaches can't do anything to hide their deficiencies or the defensive coaching is awful. In my opinion, the coaching is the more likely problem. How many times do we have to see wide open receivers running free to ensure that the defensive staff changes next year. Our receivers are average (Driver and Jennings) but I'd probably take them over what the Jets have.

If I'm TT I'm telling MM that he has to fire some coaches on the defensive side of the ball. Then I tell him that I want to hire the best avaialble DC on the market, or locate some hotshot position coach from a successful scheme to become the new DC. TT then has to pick out the players most responsible for the gaffes, and eliminate them from the roster.

12/3/065:30 PM

Mr.YuckMember

quote:
Originally posted by kworst:
As I have said many many times, if you are going to rebuild with young players, they have to be GOOD young players. How many street free agents are on this team? how many just "guys" are on this team.

Just a bad team over all. Bad coaching, bad players, bad management.

Just a terrible situation that is not going to get any better any time soon.

The rodgers era? ha, that mechanical bust is a joke.

the rookie OL? How many times you see them get pushed back into the back field.

chris francis - ruvell martin - ha

mike montgomery - at least he is good at off sides

corey williams? he is nothing

bad bad team

3-13

2007 - 2008

You're right, they should have made trades that allowed the Packers to make all 32 picks in the 1st round of the past draft.

With the exception of Manuel, the FA's we've picked up have played well.

Rodgers is a bust, yet he has yet to have the chance to start. Wow, how are you not an NFL coach???

12/3/065:33 PM

grbaypackMember

quote:
Originally posted by GBnative:
It really appeared to me that this one was as much on the coaching staff as much as the players. The jets appeared to be listening in on the Packers defensive huddle before they called their plays. Every time the Packers ran one of those stupid zone blitzes it ended up with Kampman or Montgomery trying to cover a running back on a circle route. Home many times was Poppinga lined up in single man coverage on a tight end split out very wide. The jets consistenty used their formations to create mismatches and the Packers' coaches apparently had no answers. On the other hand, look what Harris did with Coles, 3 catches for 28 yards. Harris may be the only guy on the defense that is used properly.

I think the Packers need to pay up a bit with Al Harris, and keep him around. He's not the perfect player, but by and large he locks down the wideout he's asked to cover. He's a good player.

12/3/065:33 PM

fightphoe93Member

As bad as it has been lately, I do have some hope for the offense in the future as that is where most of the promising youth lies. But the defense and special teams are so bad, it would take an offense like the '98 Broncos had or the '79 Chargers to win games with these groups. And obviously, this offense has a long ways to go to get into that category, having been shutout twice this year.

I do think that the coaching staff on defense needs a complete overhaul. They've had a disastrous year on that side of the ball. Some of it is the players' fault. And yet, I really do think that guys like Woodson, Barnett, Hawk, Kampmann, Pickett, Harris should be enough of a nucleus that this defense should be playing better than it is.

12/3/065:34 PM

The HecklerMember

I truly and honestly believe that if they get better safeties and improve the LB's pass coverages they will improve as a defense. I am most definately not a fan who calls for coaches heads but Shottenheimer just has to go.

Also, I think this defense needs a couple of nasty players. By nasty I mean a slobber knocker type of guy who will do anything to knock the crap out of you and have their attitude rub off on others of the defense.

Offensively IMHO they have regressed a bit. Not much rythmn to the offense and they seem to be very very streaky on offense. I would attribute that to a young OL and lack of WR depth and TE's that are mostly invisible.

12/3/065:36 PM

grbaypackMember

quote:
Originally posted by fightphoe93:
As bad as it has been lately, I do have some hope for the offense in the future as that is where most of the promising youth lies. But the defense and special teams are so bad, it would take an offense like the '98 Broncos had or the '79 Chargers to win games with these groups. And obviously, this offense has a long ways to go to get into that category, having been shutout twice this year.

I do think that the coaching staff on defense needs a complete overhaul. They've had a disastrous year on that side of the ball. Some of it is the players' fault. And yet, I really do think that guys like Woodson, Barnett, Hawk, Kampmann, Pickett, Harris should be enough of a nucleus that this defense should be playing better than it is.

What bothers me about the offense is that the main playmakers are going to be 30 or over by 07'. Green is like 30, Driver will be 32 (I think), and Favre will be 38. I don't think we'll get to the competitive stage before we have to replace these guys.

12/3/065:37 PM

PakrzFREEZE!

quote:
Originally posted by Ubetcha:
This is the one thing that bothers me about this team right now. I didn't expect them to really challenge in the division this year considering all the totally new offense and all. But we are at that point in the season where we should start seeing glimmers of good things to come for next season. Instead, the wheels are really starting to come off. This points to coaching. I really want to see McCarthy succeed, but I get the feeling his learning curve is really steep. Fortunately I couldn't see the game today but watching the score come in by quarter was frightening. Even the Lions gave the Pats a good contest today. We were never in that game.

I beg to differ. We were in that game during the coin toss. After that, it went down hill.

12/3/065:45 PM

OronoMember

Young teams should be getting better as the season goes on. We are getting worse.

They were emotionless in the first half. That's lack of leadership and poor coaching.

I don't care if it's the first year for some of these coaches, you can't expect status quo when you have the worst, yes the worst defense in the National Football League. How long ago was it when the Packers had the absolute worst defense. I don't even remember having all those bad teams in the 70's and 80's that we had this bad of defense.

Double Bates salary for next year and get him back.

12/3/066:03 PM

Orlando WolfMember

How about giving Jennings a couple more opportunities to make some plays? He had two catches today. Two catches! One was at the end of the game. He was injured but it appears he is getting past that. Watching him run he is explosive off the line and has no limp. McCarthy and Favre need to make sure he gets the ball more. A lot of good things have happened this year when he touches the ball.

12/3/066:12 PM

favrefan4everMember

One of the things I am so dissapointed by my expectations were so low this season. The only thing I was looking for was to see some level of improvement throughout the season. This team has gone from bad to worse. IMHO there is very little doubt we have the worst defense in the league. Injuries are also no excuse. I believe we have the exact same starters (on defense) that we had on opening day!

I know we have gone through 3 dc's over 3 years but can anyone get excited about this team if Sanders comes back as DC? The jury may still be out regarding Mike McCarthy can be a head coach in this league, but I think Sanders has proven he is not a DC!

12/3/066:15 PM

GBP1Member

There was a 3rd down play in the 4th qtr. Favre fired straight over the middle to Driver who was not able to pull down the ball after being bumped by the DB. Simms made some remarks about pass interference (which could have been called). But on replay when they showed the play from the backside EZ you could see Ruvell Martin running his route straight up the field. He was running his route somewhat slow and just as knew the pass would not be to him. No wonder why Favre has to throw to Driver all the time...

12/3/066:15 PM

The GBP RulesMember

I didn't see the game today but man it must have been ugly down 31-0. To think people were talking about playoffs when they beat the Vikings. The NFC is bad but it's not THAT bad.

They're just not very good and if they don't play mistake free football they're going to get crushed. Since that Viking game they've been outscored 107-34.

12/3/066:42 PM

squirrelpeeMember

quote:
Originally posted by Pakrz:
quote:
Originally posted by Ubetcha:
This is the one thing that bothers me about this team right now. I didn't expect them to really challenge in the division this year considering all the totally new offense and all. But we are at that point in the season where we should start seeing glimmers of good things to come for next season. Instead, the wheels are really starting to come off. This points to coaching. I really want to see McCarthy succeed, but I get the feeling his learning curve is really steep. Fortunately I couldn't see the game today but watching the score come in by quarter was frightening. Even the Lions gave the Pats a good contest today. We were never in that game.

I beg to differ. We were in that game during the coin toss. After that, it went down hill.

That was great and well needed.

As I have said countless times. Attempting to coach a team that is primarily rookies is a daunting task for any HC. Asking a newbie HC to do that is really stacking the deck against him in terms of any substained forward progress.

While MM and his coaching staff have many glaring issues, I lay a chuck of the dismal performance of the Packers on TTs desk.

I understand the rebuilding aspect but you don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. His reluctance to go after decent veterans before the season even gets started is really hurting the team IMHO. And its not like last season when he had little cap money to use.

I love the Pack and always will. Its sad seeing them be turned into the laughing stock that they have become.

As ugly as the 70's were none of those teams had 2 shut out games at Lambeau in one season. TT gets that honor. Sure hope the team doesn't have anymore before the season is done.

12/3/067:01 PM

Chuck CecilMember

SPee, are you ever going to stop taking shots at TT? Is it even possible for you?

12/3/067:04 PM

Favre is like UnitasMember

The Packers are now hitting their stride and the future is looking really bright in Green Bay

, oops

FILU

12/3/067:05 PM

Orlando WolfMember

quote:
Originally posted by squirrelpee:
quote:
Originally posted by Pakrz:
quote:
Originally posted by Ubetcha:
This is the one thing that bothers me about this team right now. I didn't expect them to really challenge in the division this year considering all the totally new offense and all. But we are at that point in the season where we should start seeing glimmers of good things to come for next season. Instead, the wheels are really starting to come off. This points to coaching. I really want to see McCarthy succeed, but I get the feeling his learning curve is really steep. Fortunately I couldn't see the game today but watching the score come in by quarter was frightening. Even the Lions gave the Pats a good contest today. We were never in that game.

I beg to differ. We were in that game during the coin toss. After that, it went down hill.

That was great and well needed.

As I have said countless times. Attempting to coach a team that is primarily rookies is a daunting task for any HC. Asking a newbie HC to do that is really stacking the deck against him in terms of any substained forward progress.

While MM and his coaching staff have many glaring issues, I lay a chuck of the dismal performance of the Packers on TTs desk.

I understand the rebuilding aspect but you don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. His reluctance to go after decent veterans before the season even gets started is really hurting the team IMHO. And its not like last season when he had little cap money to use.

I love the Pack and always will. Its sad seeing them be turned into the laughing stock that they have become.

As ugly as the 70's were none of those teams had 2 shut out games at Lambeau in one season. TT gets that honor. Sure hope the team doesn't have anymore before the season is done.

You have to lay off Thompson. The talent is not that bad.

12/3/067:06 PM

Favre is like UnitasMember

quote:
Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:

You have to lay off Thompson. The talent is not that bad.

I agree...there's nothing wrong with our talent getting beat all over the field today

the future is bright in Green Bay

FILU

12/3/067:11 PM

Blair KielGOOD OL' FAKE BLAIR KIEL - My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!

Your needle is stuck, Pee....

12/3/067:11 PM

The GBP RulesMember

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Cecil:
SPee, are you ever going to stop taking shots at TT? Is it even possible for you?

No kidding, I agree. Enough...we get it.

12/3/067:16 PM

GoallineLarge Antenna

Perhaps when TT's master plan comes to fruition Spee will jump aboard(or perhaps her head will explode).

It is really difficult for fans to grasp the one step back two steps forward concept.

12/3/067:25 PM

justanotherpackerfanMember

As long as its not the turn around and sprint backwards then crawl forward plan.

12/3/067:27 PM

BenzeneMember

Or the left foot in, left foot out, and shake it all about plan.

That's what it's all about.

12/3/067:28 PM

MichiganPackerMember

quote:
Originally posted by GBP1:
There was a 3rd down play in the 4th qtr. Favre fired straight over the middle to Driver who was not able to pull down the ball after being bumped by the DB. Simms made some remarks about pass interference (which could have been called). But on replay when they showed the play from the backside EZ you could see Ruvell Martin running his route straight up the field. He was running his route somewhat slow and just as knew the pass would not be to him. No wonder why Favre has to throw to Driver all the time...

I think Martin only can run slowly. He was probably running the route at his top speed. The only passes he catches are the deliberately underthrown one.

This brings up a larger point. When was the last time you saw a Packer receiver get great separation from the DB (other than Driver running a slant)?

12/3/067:39 PM

Favre is like UnitasMember

quote:
Originally posted by MichiganPacker:

I think Martin only can run slowly. He was probably running the route at his top speed. The only passes he catches are the deliberately underthrown one.

LMAO!!!!

FILU

12/3/067:54 PM

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