I admit it. It is my fault. I'm so sorry.

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I think ARod uses the whole play clock to try to draw the defense off sides and also read them and try to get exactly what they are doing.  However, I wonder if that could also be leading to the poor pass blocking, as the defense knows the play clock is going to expire and they can time their rush.  Almost like they know ARod will drain it all the way down so they can tee off without worrying about the ball being snapped whenever.

       
       


I disagree. Completely. As a matter of fact, I call BS on that.
A Pro Bowl LT in his prime?  BS.

Had Thompson traded 3 firsts for Thomas I would have been pissed.

 

 

 

You would be wrong.  That's a Spermhead move.

But, if he had traded 4 I would be over the moon. Only an amazing player would go for 4 1st rounders.

Multiple picks for a marquee player, it always works out.

 

John Hadl

Hershel Walker

Ricky Williams

Julio Jones

 

 

 

SteveLuke,

 

Man, that is like the finest post detailing the status of the Packer's offense I have ever read.  That was just superb stuff - all the way up and down the lineup.

 

One thing.  It reads to me like you contradict yourself with respect to Aaron Rodgers.  The end says he's not an impact.  But, the beginning sure does.  The woes at other positions do not negate your accurate description of Rodgers this year.  He has missed targets more than other years.

 

And while playing below his standards, he's still probably playing at top 3 or so in the league.

 

Given your analysis of the offense which I agree with, the wild card to me is health and Lacy.

 

Something in me says Lacy has it in him to play like his past years.

 

If we're healthy and he does - watch out!

 

We really need Lacy.

This.

 

C'mon Trophies, you have some great posts and viewpoints, but this is insane.  One knee injury or whatnot and your team is crippled for years.

 

For what you have in enthusiasm you lack in perspective in situations. 

 

For example, if and IF that had happened, how pissed would you have been that we couldn't draft that TE you were drooling over.   Take that take and multiply it by 3 years.

 

The bane of the good teams is they always pick last.  The best thing to do is pile on picks and move up for who your scouting department tells you are good players. 

 

We stole Clay from NE or anyone because ROTTT stole some picks and moved up to grab him.

 

Bad neck for JMike, add a few more picks.  it's not a 100% game.  But like anything, the more shots you take, sooner or later one will hit.

 

I don't want another Hadl.  ****in' eh, settle man.

I don't know the extent of the cheating nor the impact it has made on the Patriot's success.  And I have a dislike for the franchise on this whole issue.

 

Regardless, the level of legitimate play of the Patriots is unfortunately probably the finest in the league and the cheating element cannot dismiss that.

Hungry5:

it sounds to me like the guy making most of the calls during the 2nd half of the game, was the QB".

If true, that is so awesome.  Bigtime compliment for Rodgers.

 

The age of QB's calling their own plays is like more than 30 years ago, realizing few exceptions.

 

Based on the limited info we have. Elway was the only guy that made a play for Thomas. Not because he wanted to IMO. He had to. He got Peyton. Didn't work. He doubled down with TJ Ward, Talib, and Ware. Hasn't worked. He tried to go all in on Thomas. It's kind of pathetic to watch a GM do things like that. What does Denvers starting LT think of his future in Denver? Why the **** should he cover Peyton's neck? 

 

Fans do the same thing. They look at these hypotheticals in a vacuum. There is a crazy serious trickle down effect when you start talking about three first round picks for one player. 

 

If Ted pulled this deal in 2012 and gave up 2013, 2014, and 2015 picks for Thomas. He doesn't select Datone, Ha Ha, or Randall. The snap reaction is you might give up those three for Joe Thomas. But by doing so it likely alters the picks of Eddie, DaVante and Rollins. And it rolls down from there. And if you don't pick a guy like Randall. Do you have to overpay House or Tramon because you don't have that first rounder? How do those two look this year? How does cap room look for 2016 because of Thomas 4 years earlier? 

 

You start going down the road of desperation moves like 3 first rounders and you spend years overpaying trying to buy your way out then the new GM spends 4 trying to dig out of the rubble. The Raiders aren't suddenly competitive because Reggie McKenzie figured things out 6 months ago. 

 

Im not absolving Ted of not making moves that make sense. Karlos Dansby is 6th in the NFL in tackles playing for the factory of sadness on a team going nowhere. He would have been a great sign for very little. Plenty people here thought the same thing 4 months ago. 

 

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade 3 first rounders for one player in the salary cap era. 

When the two of you decide which side of the fence you're on let us know. Thanks. 

All the blathering about Brady and the cheatriots forgets the hugest factor.

 

Gronk.

 

A healthy Gronk running through secondaries would give even McNown an All-Pro year.

 

Perspective folks. 

 

**** the Cheatriots.

Especially now that there is a rookie salary limit.  Before, there might have been more logic to risking trading a first round pick that might not pan out with a salary that could cripple a cap (Ryan Leaf anyone?).  MUCH less financial risk involved in first rounders now.

Thank you Maynard for the added fact.

 

Gebbins.

Haven't you guys seen Draft Day? Trading 3 first rounders is no big deal, heck trading three second rounders is no big deal. If Thompson knew how to peer pressure other GMs in to giving up 3 first rounders then we would be much better off. Thompson should be trading 3 second rounders for a top 5 pick and getting us a marquee player every year, or at least every 3 years. Whoever consulted on that movie with Kevin Costner needs to consult with Thompson (in reality Phil Savage's fantasy world was the consultant).

This make sense and it did work a couple 3 times earlier this year, IMO those were the biggest plays of the yr.  However we cannot ignore the times the clock wasrunning down 

and the result was not a free play but a wasted time out.  Time outs are precious and should be used/saved for strategy and clock management purposes.

where art thou Don Beebe

... In the Green Bay Packers’ case, a lack of speed is perhaps the biggest contributor to their offensive woes.

It’s not a stretch to say the Packers have the slowest team in the league when it comes to the skill positions in the passing game.

A study of all 32 teams' top three receivers and No. 1 tight end at this point in the season confirmed that. Using 40 times of every player from their NFL combine test or, if they didn’t run at the combine, their college pro day, the Packers currently have the slowest foursome of top receiving targets in the NFL (see accompanying chart).

The combined average 40 time of receivers Randall Cobb (4.55), Davante Adams (4.56), James Jones (4.6) plus tight end Richard Rodgers (4.87) ranks as a league-worst 4.65 seconds. And at age 31, Jones probably couldn’t match his original time.

Even if you throw out the lumbering Rodgers and the tight ends, the Packers are on the slow end, tied for 26th among all teams’ current top three receivers, with an average 40 of 4.57 seconds.

Coach Mike McCarthy, playcaller Tom Clements and offensive coordinator Edgar Bennett can scheme all they want, but the biggest reason their receivers haven’t been able to get open enough has been a shortage of speed, according to one NFL scout.

Sure, precise route running can help receivers get open, but there’s no substitute for speed...

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-...nfls-slowest-weapons

Janis!

 

Oh wait.

 

Rodgers no likey him.

 

 

Look at Demovsky's chart in the story I referred to (link: http://espn.go.com/blog/green-...nfls-slowest-weapons ).

 

Packers are #32 in "speed".

 

Patriots are #31.

 

Hmmm.

Packers’ problems on offense rooted in a limited playbook

Another piece pointing to the lack of offensive imagination from the braintrust as a problem.

That is an outstanding article, mj, great pull.

Maybe they have better slow guys?  Perhaps they realize they have slow guys and develop the game plan to compensate for that.  Or they cheat.

I've been saying for a couple years now that too much of the offense relies on AR just making a play several seconds after the initial play design has broken down.

 

AR rarely drops back 3, 5 or 7 steps and throws the ball to his first read like Brady, Manning and many other QBs do.

 

The "MM is an offensive genius" is a take I've disagreed with from the start.

So summing up those two articles, Packers passing offense so far this season consists of relying on the league's slowest receiving group to win 1 on 1 battles with little schematic assistance (such as picks, motion or bunch formations), and/or Rodgers winning a free play or improvising after the play breaks down.

 

The same obtained for much of last year too, but with Jordy and an effective Lacy it was able to be surmounted most of the time.

 

W. T. F. 

 

This isn't the Mike McCarthy passing game we used to see. Why?

I think some of it is arrogance on MM's part. If you ever watch any of his pressers you cannot ever talk scheme with him or question any playcalling. He shuts that schit down immediately.

 

He's a very loyal HC and he's convinced himself he has the best assistants in the NFL. That article is sobering.

 

And it's also sobering we have a HOF QB playing in his prime with this kind of watered down playbook who's being asked to play like a video game.

And that is why the Pats are a team that uses scheme to get their guys open, with the exception of Gronk. All kinds of crosses, bunch formations, rub plays, etc.

Well yeah, that big polack is SO fast.

 

Everybody knows Gronk makes that offense work.  Take him out and you'll see the same thing from NE that you saw when he was on IR.  Name another team with #1 - dominant type player at 2 skill positions on offense.

Have to agree that hubris plays a significant role. Never more evident than during the bye week when MM apparently felt just getting Adams back and the status quo would be good enough.

All this garbage on what really was a throw away comment I made a long time ago, something to the effect "Hell, I'd give 3"... Really?!!! Forget the goddam 3. Already. Please. ****in-A!

 

I believe the true cost for Thomas was far less. That point on "value" seems lost on many here... As MichiganJoe said, "All-Pro LTs don't grow on trees."

 

And, what of the time to develop a player, when we could really use a Thomas level player now?

 

A lot of giant chest thumping in here, over what was a simple comment. I thought we are here to talk about the Packers...

Speed kills!  I for one prefer faster players in both the receiver and secondary positions.  However, I have to wonder if players should suit up to run the 4o. How much does the gear slow them down, and what is the variation of this effect among the players? And then you have Football IQ, which I am sure has an effect on game speed. Jordy is fast despite his 40.  I agree with the thought that a good game plan can compensate.  Right now, I do not see either good speed or good game plans.

For years I have been hoping they would start measuring gear & grass 40 times. It would be so much more useful and informative. 40 times on a track in shorts are pretty subjective, and don't give a true measure of a player's ability on the field.

Julio Jones has worked out. He's a stud and the guys taken with those picks are garbage.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/s...aft-day-trade-090215

 

Hasn't put them over the top though, which to me is kind of the point when you go "all in" for a player like that. They sacrificed fixing their pass rush with Aldon Smith or JJ Watt or their OLine with a guy like Tyron Smith who has been pretty reliable in Dallas. They could have had Randall Cobb or Justin Houston or Demarco Murray in r2. Julius Thomas was taken a few slots after the r4 pick they gave up also. Julio Jones has been an elite player, but if I'm a Falcon fan and I look back and see my team could have hauled in JJ Watt, Randall Cobb, and Julius Thomas instead of Julio, I would be pissed.

Here's your "throw away" comment:  "I am firmly on record as having said I would have given up 3 1st round picks for the guy, and I believe it would have been well worth it."

 

OK.

MM is an outstanding QB coach. His QB camps emphasizing footwork, mechanics, etc. clearly had very positive effects on Rodgers and Flynn, and will likely pay off with Hundley and Tolzein.

 

His offense is based guys winning matchups. The linked article shows one example where scheme got Montgomery open for the TD, but most of the "famous" plays of the MM era are not guys running wide open against blown coverages. They are guys beating there guy. The Jennings plays in the Super Bowl were against tight coverage. The Jordy Nelson bombs are based on getting inside leverage against the CB. The back shoulder throws to Jones, Nelson, etc. It's getting 4-5 receivers split out and making the 4th or 5th DB on the other team guard a guy. That works well when your 5 guys are Nelson, Cobb, Jennings, Jones, and Finley (maybe even Quarless) who are all experienced in the offense.

 

Every team probably knows what MM is going to do in terms of scheme - it doesn't change much. MM just feels he is going to make the defense adjust to his scheme because he's confident in it. His philosophy is not to adjust to the defense.

It's worked at least a couple of times, but it's probably only worth it to get a young, franchise QB.

 

John Elway to the Broncos from the Colts

 

Eli Manning to the Giants from the Chargers (although Philip Rivers might have been just as good)

Is this team 6-2?

 

ATL is 6-3. Watch them play and they look nothing like a playoff team either.