quote:Originally posted by Pikes Peak:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Packdog:
, Raji is the second best player on this defense. QUOTE]
That my friend is the problem.....
That my friend was the point
That my friend was the point
That my friend was the point
He plays a position that typically doesn't rack up a lot of stats or gets a lot of publicity. He's never going to be a 15 sack guy and that is fine with me.
However, guys with his size and strength and quickness don't grow on trees either. I recall TT raving about the guy when they drafted him and I still believe he's a top tier player at the position. Like I said earlier - for those that think he's overrated or replaceable go ahead and name 5 other players in the league better than him? Name me 3 tackles in the NFC better than him? Good luck with that.
Now do the same with guys like Finley, Hawk, heck even Woodson and it's easy to see why they need to make sure they find a way to bring him back.
However, guys with his size and strength and quickness don't grow on trees either. I recall TT raving about the guy when they drafted him and I still believe he's a top tier player at the position. Like I said earlier - for those that think he's overrated or replaceable go ahead and name 5 other players in the league better than him? Name me 3 tackles in the NFC better than him? Good luck with that.
Now do the same with guys like Finley, Hawk, heck even Woodson and it's easy to see why they need to make sure they find a way to bring him back.
quote:I think it's also realistic to look for legit NT prospects in the upcoming draft as Pickett is getting up there and if more rotation/competition is needed so be it.
Wouldn't it make sense for ROTTT to start looking if Fat Clinics or Biggest Loser?
quote:Originally posted by tundra_power:
Raji had 16 freaking tackles this year......16!! We must have really low expectations for our defensive players....geez
Is this because they don't run at him? Is he tying up other blockers so someone else can make the tackle?
Yeah, I tried to run with that argument but then I started looking at comparable NT. Ngata had 50+ tackles. Casey Hampton had 26+. I believe in Raji but you know TT is going to be bringing up the same issues.
Sione Pouha-Jets 29 tackles in 12 games
Jay Ratliff-Cowboys 16 tackles in 6 games
Vince Wilfork-Pats 48 tackles in 16 games, 3sacks
Kyle Williams-Bills 46 tackles in 16 games, 5 sacks
Aubrayo Franklin-Niners 20 tackles in 12 games
Antonio Garay-Chargers 16 tackles in 8 games
Ahtyba Rubin-Browns 44 tackles in 13 games
Paul Soliai-Dolphins 29 tackles in 16 games
Ma'ake Kemoeatu 29 tackles in 15 games
Raji 26 tackles in 14 games
Jay Ratliff-Cowboys 16 tackles in 6 games
Vince Wilfork-Pats 48 tackles in 16 games, 3sacks
Kyle Williams-Bills 46 tackles in 16 games, 5 sacks
Aubrayo Franklin-Niners 20 tackles in 12 games
Antonio Garay-Chargers 16 tackles in 8 games
Ahtyba Rubin-Browns 44 tackles in 13 games
Paul Soliai-Dolphins 29 tackles in 16 games
Ma'ake Kemoeatu 29 tackles in 15 games
Raji 26 tackles in 14 games
Based on the numbers it does look like Raji should be doing a lot more on the field. IMHO I still like the LBs are the weakest link, but I do hope that CM3, healthy Perry/Bishop are a good start at making that position much more solid.
EDIT: that said if an upgrade can be found here on the DL too don't pass it up, not to sure how much more time pickett has (any word on his injury?).
EDIT: that said if an upgrade can be found here on the DL too don't pass it up, not to sure how much more time pickett has (any word on his injury?).
Forgot that crap about Raji eating blockers. He was average and I can't see how anyone can say different. Those total tackle numbers I posted for the other guys playing his position really tell the story. He should be resigned only if it does not break the bank.
Why run at Raji when you can run around Walden or Moses?
I guess that is it, if tundra_power says he sucks, he sucks.
quote:Originally posted by Hungry5:
Why run at Raji when you can run around Walden or Moses?
This is the issue in a nutshell. Why on earth would you run at two 320+ pounders when you can run at Moses and Walden who are both probably barely 250 and can't contain the edge? Yes teams run away from Raji, teams also run away from Clay Matthews. That leads to lower tackle numbers.
Raji isn't the most consistent fellow, and sure he was San Fran's beyotch in the playoff game but he's still had a pretty good year and is an important defender to keep.
For me, Raji gets the money--long term--he is a high character, high energy guy---he does what a nose in a 3-4 is supposed to do---really, really well. Hopefully Bishop comes back and we get another inside linebacker that is worthwhile to benefit from all that Raji does.
quote:Report: Packers will make B.J. Raji play out 2013 season
jsonline.com
by Tyler Dunne on 06-03-13
Green Bay didn't hesitate in giving big money to Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews. But for now, general manager Ted Thompson apparently isn't going to do the same thing with nose tackle B.J. Raji.
The Packers will make Raji play out the final year of his rookie deal, NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported Monday.
Last week, Raji said he "absolutely" wants to stay in Green Bay long term, adding that he was focusing on shedding blockers this off-season. Though the numbers may not indicate it, Raji said coaches told him that 2012 was his best season with the team. Now, the Packers want to see more of the 2009 ninth overall pick before committing long-term money to him.
In his four-year career, Raji has 112 tackles (78 solo) and 10.5 sacks. continue
quote:Q&A: Gilbert Brown on Packers' defense, B.J. Raji, mobile quarterbacks
jsonline.com
Q: Do you think the Packers should give B.J. Raji a long-term contract extension?
"B.J. Raji is one of the stout guys in that defense. He's progressing every year. I think he's going to be a bonafide player in this league. That defense requires the nose person to be a phenomenal player because he has to create pressure up the middle to force everything to go outside. I think B.J. Raji is that player to do that. I really do think that he has the size, has the strength, has the knowledge to do it. And I don't think they'd be making a mistake in giving him a long-term deal. I really don't."continue
This could be a good thing...Raji playing for a big contract!! Although it may be tough to re=-sign him if he has a standout year!
It's commendable that the Packers don't use the franchise tag. I think the players can't stand it and it creates acrimony in the locker room, but the franchise cost for defensive tackles this year was just 8.5 million.
It would be a bit of a dick move for next year, but BJ has played a ton of snaps so far and that number is a fantastic bargain if BJ has a great season. Having him franchised for (2014) would still allow the Packers to get a compensatory draft pick for him (he'll still be 28 after next year) if they decided they didn't want him anymore or he started to fade from wear and tear.
I think the best way to characterize Raji is that he's on the 'core bubble' He's certainly a very good player but it's a close call if he's a core leadership type of guy. He's admittedly not a vocal leader.
If all the pass rushers on the team stay healthy and perform Raji may be able to focus more on becoming the reliable double block run stopper that the 3-4 nose should be. If he can prove he can do that this year he may get the extension before the season is over. If he's mediocre in that again I don't know how they justify paying him big money.
It would be a bit of a dick move for next year, but BJ has played a ton of snaps so far and that number is a fantastic bargain if BJ has a great season. Having him franchised for (2014) would still allow the Packers to get a compensatory draft pick for him (he'll still be 28 after next year) if they decided they didn't want him anymore or he started to fade from wear and tear.
I think the best way to characterize Raji is that he's on the 'core bubble' He's certainly a very good player but it's a close call if he's a core leadership type of guy. He's admittedly not a vocal leader.
If all the pass rushers on the team stay healthy and perform Raji may be able to focus more on becoming the reliable double block run stopper that the 3-4 nose should be. If he can prove he can do that this year he may get the extension before the season is over. If he's mediocre in that again I don't know how they justify paying him big money.
Lots of talk about top 5 and top 10 and top this and that
Remember- its always a moving target.
He may get money that puts him at number 5 this month, but by the end of the season its number 8 and by the 2nd season its top 12 and so on.
Plus there are so many ways that teams structure deals, its really hard to say who gets what. If the sweet deal you got from your team is gonna be torn up in 2 years anyway, then its not fair to compare that deal to a real live Green and Gold contract.
GB does real deals so they aren't required to purge and dump cap space like many teams around the league. Flacco ain't getting $28 million in 2016, but that $28M is part of his "top 5 money"
That whole line of thinking is just not a big part of doing business in Titletown and the agents know it.
Raji is young and still ascending, whether he puts in the work or not is what GB has to figure out. Some reports suggest he has been more serious about his craft this offseason and he realizes that he has to step up... or step out. We'll see
Pairing him with Jenkins was exceedingly successful, with CJ Wilson not as much. We also see that Jenkins without Raji hasn't lived up to his contract ( a fat one that was dumped by the dream team). For all the talk about Jenkins, its interesting to note that both GB and Philly dumped him because he wasn't worth what he wanted.
Now, watch what happens with Datone Jones next to Raji, which is what TT has decided to do.
Every successful 3-4 needs somebody who can collapse the pocket from the middle so the QB can't just step up and away from Matthews & Perry- and I think Raji fits that bill.
2013 will decide his fate and BJ surely knows it; TT spent a lot of time with his agent during the Matthews and Rodgers deals and I suspect they talked a little about what Raji needs to do to get his...
IF GB pays Raji, it will be because he earned it, and that's not a bad way to manage a team and cap
On 3rd and 12, I'd like to see Neal, Raji, Jones attacking the OL with Perry & Matthews screaming around the edge
.
Remember- its always a moving target.
He may get money that puts him at number 5 this month, but by the end of the season its number 8 and by the 2nd season its top 12 and so on.
Plus there are so many ways that teams structure deals, its really hard to say who gets what. If the sweet deal you got from your team is gonna be torn up in 2 years anyway, then its not fair to compare that deal to a real live Green and Gold contract.
GB does real deals so they aren't required to purge and dump cap space like many teams around the league. Flacco ain't getting $28 million in 2016, but that $28M is part of his "top 5 money"
That whole line of thinking is just not a big part of doing business in Titletown and the agents know it.
Raji is young and still ascending, whether he puts in the work or not is what GB has to figure out. Some reports suggest he has been more serious about his craft this offseason and he realizes that he has to step up... or step out. We'll see
Pairing him with Jenkins was exceedingly successful, with CJ Wilson not as much. We also see that Jenkins without Raji hasn't lived up to his contract ( a fat one that was dumped by the dream team). For all the talk about Jenkins, its interesting to note that both GB and Philly dumped him because he wasn't worth what he wanted.
Now, watch what happens with Datone Jones next to Raji, which is what TT has decided to do.
Every successful 3-4 needs somebody who can collapse the pocket from the middle so the QB can't just step up and away from Matthews & Perry- and I think Raji fits that bill.
2013 will decide his fate and BJ surely knows it; TT spent a lot of time with his agent during the Matthews and Rodgers deals and I suspect they talked a little about what Raji needs to do to get his...
IF GB pays Raji, it will be because he earned it, and that's not a bad way to manage a team and cap
On 3rd and 12, I'd like to see Neal, Raji, Jones attacking the OL with Perry & Matthews screaming around the edge
.
This year will just determine how much GB pays him. Ted won't let him go.
quote:Originally posted by titmfatied:
I think the best way to characterize Raji is that he's on the 'core bubble'
If all the pass rushers on the team stay healthy and perform Raji may be able to focus more on becoming the reliable double block run stopper that the 3-4 nose should be.
"Core bubble" is a great description and 2013 will tell the tale.
On the run stopping, do we know if he played more Nose or more DT ? I know they use him and Pickett in both spots, but I don't know how many snap counts they had at each one. Either way, Raji got washed out too often per McGinn and others, and Football Outsiders said that SF just killed Raji in the playoff game
Pickett costs $6.7mm in 2013... that cap number can ALL go to BJ in 2014 if he is deemed worthy. Raji has a $6.595mm hit in 2013. The money will be there in 2014 and beyond if Thompson thinks he is due.
Unless he wants Greg Jenning overpayment. Then Russ Ball will tell him to enjoy his time in MIN. With Burnett, Shields, and Neal all due that money can go quick and the Packers are pretty darn good at figuring out who should get it.
From kffl:
Packers | B.J. Raji will be asked to attack
"Green Bay Packers DL B.J. Raji will be asked to attack and create in 2013 like he did in 2010, when he recorded seven sacks. Raji is eating healthier and in shape. The Packers scheme is expected to help Raji."
2013-06-03 16:31:09 | Source: NFL.com - Ian Rapoport
Packers | B.J. Raji will be asked to attack
"Green Bay Packers DL B.J. Raji will be asked to attack and create in 2013 like he did in 2010, when he recorded seven sacks. Raji is eating healthier and in shape. The Packers scheme is expected to help Raji."
2013-06-03 16:31:09 | Source: NFL.com - Ian Rapoport
speculation:
I wonder if Raji's agent, David Dunn, is floating that. Have to figure the Packers want as little information out there as possible about what they're going to do. That looks like an advertisement for an impending free agent ("Raji is eating healthier and in shape").
It makes a nice counter to the Packers want him to play out the season article that came out earlier. I think that was an Ian Rapoport source, too. Weird that on the same day there's articles about him both wanting to be better in the run and more aggressive in the pass rush.
I wonder if Raji's agent, David Dunn, is floating that. Have to figure the Packers want as little information out there as possible about what they're going to do. That looks like an advertisement for an impending free agent ("Raji is eating healthier and in shape").
It makes a nice counter to the Packers want him to play out the season article that came out earlier. I think that was an Ian Rapoport source, too. Weird that on the same day there's articles about him both wanting to be better in the run and more aggressive in the pass rush.
quote:Originally posted by Satori:
From kffl:
Packers | B.J. Raji will be asked to attack
"Green Bay Packers DL B.J. Raji will be asked to attack and create in 2013 like he did in 2010, when he recorded seven sacks. Raji is eating healthier and in shape. The Packers scheme is expected to help Raji."
Bu...
Buu.....
Butttt.....
Big Bad Bobby said no. He and the DL trio are a bunch of fatty fat fats.
Not saying this applies to Raji in this case, but I bet almost every fat guy in the league comes in and says he's eating healthier. There's guys that know the coaches are nervous about their eating habits. If you come in anywhere near your reporting weight you tell everyone your eating healthy, especially if you're not.
I think this is Raji from OTA's...looks about what he always looks like to me, maybe a little thinner?
vs SF
vs SF
quote:Originally posted by Herschel:
Raji isn't the most consistent fellow.....
That's it and why the Packers want another year to figure out who the real Raji is before cutting the check.
A couple of points regarding Raji: when drafted there was much speculation that he fit better with a 4-3 defense, where he could penetrate & use his quickness, rather than "take up blockers". I think the wait on contract has alot to do with the inconsistent "motor" he has shown, which other have pointed out. In addition he got manhandled in the SF playoff game, much to the surpirse of the SF OC, who told announcers that he did not anticipate being able to run between the the tackles. MM seems to be a guy who puts a lot of stock in how a player plays when you need him most in the biggest game, the jury is still out on Raji being that guy.
I think a big part of it is supporting cast. Raji flourished with Cullen Jenkins and a younger Ryan Pickett next to him. He's a guy with a TON (pun intended) of natural ability, but he's not a guy who can take over a game like Haloti Ngata or Vince Wilfork. So when Jenkins left and Pickett began showing his age, he became the focus of offenses (in regard to the interior DL) and he couldn't play the way he was accustomed to playing. He's not a guy that can shoulder the load on his own, but like a lot of the players on this team, he plays his role very well and is solid. Now that the Packers have Mike Neal showing some good things and a stud rusher like Datone Jones, I think Raji will get more opportunities to show why he was the 9th overall pick.
His contract will reflect not only his production, but how well he performed in the role he was asked to play. I think his deal will be exactly what all the other Packer contracts are: a fair deal for the player and cap friendly for the team.
His contract will reflect not only his production, but how well he performed in the role he was asked to play. I think his deal will be exactly what all the other Packer contracts are: a fair deal for the player and cap friendly for the team.
Contract year....
He's going to be a S-T-U-D this season
He's going to be a S-T-U-D this season
quote:Originally posted by FLPACKER:
A couple of points regarding Raji: when drafted there was much speculation that he fit better with a 4-3 defense, where he could penetrate & use his quickness, rather than "take up blockers". I think the wait on contract has alot to do with the inconsistent "motor" he has shown, which other have pointed out. In addition he got manhandled in the SF playoff game, much to the surpirse of the SF OC, who told announcers that he did not anticipate being able to run between the the tackles. MM seems to be a guy who puts a lot of stock in how a player plays when you need him most in the biggest game, the jury is still out on Raji being that guy.
I think he played well in the biggest game of his career...
quote:Originally posted by PackerRuss:quote:Originally posted by FLPACKER:
A couple of points regarding Raji: when drafted there was much speculation that he fit better with a 4-3 defense, where he could penetrate & use his quickness, rather than "take up blockers". I think the wait on contract has alot to do with the inconsistent "motor" he has shown, which other have pointed out. In addition he got manhandled in the SF playoff game, much to the surpirse of the SF OC, who told announcers that he did not anticipate being able to run between the the tackles. MM seems to be a guy who puts a lot of stock in how a player plays when you need him most in the biggest game, the jury is still out on Raji being that guy.
I think he played well in the biggest game of his career...
...the biggest game of your career is your last playoff game, especially when you are looking for a contract extention. MM had the whole off season to lament player performances from that game.