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McCarthy, it is time...

Music CityMusic CityMember
Yes the officials suck. Yes it seems like every break is breaking against them right now. But to me, beneath the surface is a growing concern.

The previous indifference to the running game has cost this team. Going back to the first half of last week, it was frustrating. You could just see the Seahawks teeing off knowing that even play-action was at best a mild concern. Pin the ears back and go upfield. From that second half to today, the running game was the catalyst of righting the offensive ship. They controlled the clock, the ball, and tempo, and (should have) won them both games. And before everyone gets their panties in a twist about "the NFL is a passing league", the Packers are not a running team. We get it. But you simply cannot just ignore it. It must be a real consideration for the defense. And now that you have seen it, the last 6 quarters shows that a little more dedication to the running game has broken them out of their funk. 1 sack in 6 quarters. Ball control. SUCCESS!

The sloppy play is bugging me. Smith not getting a deep enough drop on 3rd and 18, penalties, Shields constantly thinking he has help when he doesn't, the pathetic defense of the middle part of the field today. And the turnovers from Rodgers and the lack of turnovers from the defense (which the opportunities are absolutely there every game)- it's a sign that they are out of sorts... and that's coaching, IMO.

I don't think McCarthy is on top of his game this season. You really saw it on the sideline when that kick sailed wide left- I think he knows it, too, and it's exhausting. It's not for a lack of trying. He's still doing everything he can. But this year he's struggling, Rodgers has been strugging, and the mental mistakes and inexplicable bad plays are killing this team. Sometimes maybe the solution is a simple one, not a complex one. Rodgers seems to be suffering from the "trying to do too much" synndrome.

It is time... get your sh*t together and get this team playing Packer football again. Get them on the same page, get them playing smarter football, and take 2-2 and make a run. This team is WAY better than what they're showing right now. Coaching needs to be the difference...
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FarmDogFarmDogMember
Brother, right on. Here is what to add. More play action. I thought during the the Seatle game that if we faked the run and rolled out more we would have mitigated the pressure and sacks. I was screaming roll-out. We did it a few times tonight with some sucess. We knew rolling into tonight we had a weaker officiating crew and should have expected some bad calls.
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F FLPACKERMember
We're just leaving way more plays on the field than we did last season. We had 3 great chances to intercept Brees today & didn't catch one of them. Then we get screwed on the KO fumble. That's potentially 4 TO's & we got zero. On offense we are "just missing" big plays by either receivers dropping balls or AR missing. These things didn't happen last season.
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Music CityMusic CityMember
quote:
Originally posted by hntr74:
wouldn't be x4 without a dum dum thread after a win.

Come on, man... I dont think that's fair. It's easy to say "rah rah rah" after a win. I think it's an accurate assessment that McCarthy is off his game. He got out-coached against SF, left a lot of points on he field against CHI & SEA, and squeaked on out today. I expect better from a guy I think is on par with Bellichik as a coach and leader. It's ok to offer some criticism- its not condemnation. From a fan's POV, it seems like he could use a little simplicity to weather the storm, until the team catches its stride.
 
quote:
He's doing everything he can, but needs to get his sh*t together?

Got it.
he does. They're a better team, and he need to get them playing that way. Looks like they're trying to do too much, between him and Rodgers. Throttle back, get a rhythm, and the big plays will come. It seemed like roday was a step in the roght direction, but theyre still leaving a ton of opportunities out there on the field. Can't keep misfiring if you want to be a Champion. 12 more weeks to determine that I guess... But worth discussing now IMO
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PackerBackerDPMPackerBackerDPMMember
quote:
Originally posted by FLPACKER:
We're just leaving way more plays on the field than we did last season. We had 3 great chances to intercept Brees today & didn't catch one of them. Then we get screwed on the KO fumble. That's potentially 4 TO's & we got zero. On offense we are "just missing" big plays by either receivers dropping balls or AR missing. These things didn't happen last season.


this is what i've seen IMO, there is just those little misses that didn't miss last year. i do believe this gets worked out though and this team starts being the juggernot it can be.
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Music CityMusic CityMember
quote:
Originally posted by ammo:
quote:
Originally posted by Music City:
Throttle back, get a rhythm, and the big plays will come.


They did today. Lots less of the 40 yard bombs, lots more quick slants and runs and short passes to Benson.

No- its not that simple. The offense's improved play does not negate the fact that the team is still struggling to connect. I share others' view that it should come around, but it's going to take more from the Captain's chair for that to actually happen. That's what I am talking about.

Edited by Lance Easley - Unnecessary posting not germane to this discussion.
Last edited by H5
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Music CityMusic CityMember
quote:
Originally posted by packerboi:
MM has kept his composure 2 straight weeks where plenty of other coaches would have friggin' lost it.

He can't get enough credit for that.

Just imagine if had this had happened to Schwartz or Harbough or Fisher..

Totally agree. Very proud of how he handled it, and he'll, I even see it as an example to my kids in how you handle a situation like that.

Now we need the team to keep getting better and start playing to their level. I would like to see that. Someone else mentioned in another thread how they were a little disappointed that they still seemed to be off. They didn't come out there like a machine and destroy, and I was really hoping for exactly that. Its a win but it wasn't as good s I was hoping for.
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antiworstantiworstMember
"He called a game that effectively mixed run and pass."


I don't see this. You take away Rodgers' scrambles (5), Harrell falling down (1), and Kuhn's fake FG (1), and we ran the ball 18 times (all Benson) and threw the ball 41 times. This in a game where we were either in the lead, or behind by 1 score late. When we play a team like the Saints that you can gouge on the ground, you have to run the ball 25+ times. Benson had 84 yards on 18 carries, and could have had 130 yards+. That will slow the rush, keep the linebackers tighter to the LOS, wear the defense down, and keep guys like Brees on the sideline. But I've given up on wishing MM would establish the running game. It's just not in his nature.
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Pack-ManPack-ManMember
quote:
Originally posted by YATittle:
Why do we play zone pass defense?

I used to think it was personnel. We switched people out. Still can't do it.

Stop.
It's what Dom does when he isn't sold on his pass rush against elite offenses. Until he feels comfortable letting them loose against top-5 QBs with solid OLs, he'll save the heat for the Cutlers and Wilsons of the league.
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FandameFandameMember
Chill! The Saints were desperate and played like it. I thought MM called a pretty good game, especially in using the run compared to games past. If there is one criticism it's that I don't think MM is patient enough. He, and Rodgers, want the "big strike" and when it doesn't happen right away he starts to gamble more and more. I think MM is still learning how to use CedBen, and our line certainly needs some work on opening holes for a running back. At least this week the Oline did an okay job on the run and didn't let Rodgers get killed.
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Grave DiggerGrave DiggerMember
quote:
Originally posted by Pack-Man:
It's what Dom does when he isn't sold on his pass rush against elite offenses. Until he feels comfortable letting them loose against top-5 QBs with solid OLs, he'll save the heat for the Cutlers and Wilsons of the league.


Good post. We need to think about our defense like this: if you were scheming against the Packers, would you put your CB in Bump n Run against Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings if you had Sam Shields and rookie Casey Hayward in there? Absolutely not. They will beat your jam and breeze down the field while Rodgers lays the ball perfectly in their arms for a TD. The Saints can do the same thing. Sam Shields and Casey Hayward aren't rerouting Lance Moore, Jimmy Graham, or Marques Colston at the line and while they physically can keep up with them deep, Brees has great deep ball accuracy and I would put money on the Saints winning that battle.

So I absolutely agree with Capers decision to go with the bend but don't break zone defense against an elite offense. Brees can rack up as many yards as he wants, yards don't mean anything when you can't finish drives.
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Music CityMusic CityMember
Edited by Lance Easley - Unnecessary posting not germane to this discussion.


Fandame- it was a better game offensively. But there are still sloppy aspects of their play that damn near resulted in a loss yesterday. As I mentioned: dropped passes, dropped INTs, penalties, turnovers. They're still not there- not even close. I don't think it's unreasonable to point out these things and say let's get back to the standard of excellence we have seen the last 3 years. The kind of sloppy play is how coaches get fired if it persists. Of course I'm not remotely suggesting that, but we have to see more if they want to win like they should be able to. So far this year the results are decidedly uneven. It starts with the HC....
Last edited by H5
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chickenboychickenboyTic Toc
quote:
Originally posted by Music City: As I mentioned: dropped passes, dropped INTs, penalties, turnovers. They're still not there- not even close.


Agreed. I will also add that AR, despite his best game, also still seems off to me. Note he set a bar last season that maybe will impossible to reach. The one throw that seems off is the "rocket balls" down the sideline instead of using the touch he seemed to have last year. His pick was under thrown but also had no touch. Aikman commented on his throws a few times during the game.

Again, he set the bar incredibly high last season.
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BorisBorisPerson Man Camera Dildo Shop - NFLFUÂŪ
It's pretty tough to win in this league. Bitching about "What if..." (especially after a hard fought win) seems like an exercise in futility.

Fandame is correct. The Saints starting 0-3 weren't going to come into Lambeau and roll over. Give them some credit too. Did you forget they get paid to play the game as well?

No team in the NFL is a dynasty anymore so expecting them to look like one every single week is never going to happen
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H5H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter
quote:
Originally posted by packerboi:
MM has kept his composure 2 straight weeks where plenty of other coaches would have friggin' lost it.


From Peter King MMQB:

quote:

Best coach: Mike McCarthy, Green Bay. The coach of the year shouldn't always be the winningest coach, or the coach who brings a team from poor to contender. McCarthy gained my everlasting respect when, in the face of the rage on his sideline and in his locker room, he managed the post-debacle situation in Seattle with aplomb, sending his extra-point team back on the field when the players were venomous in the postgame locker room, then making no excuses in his remarks to the press.

Last Wednesday, he told his players they weren't going to be making any excuses about the officials. "The refs are human too,'' he said, according to wideout James Jones. He told them to keep fighting, regardless of whatever was called on the field. That became a mantra during the week -- a clichÃĐ, of course, but if you've been around sports, you know clichÃĐs work sometimes, like this time -- and on Sunday, late in the fourth quarter, when it looked like a ridiculous official's call negating a Saints' fumble on a kickoff return might again cost the Packers, the players didn't lose it. "Even after that bad call,'' said Jones, "everyone on the sidelines was saying, 'Keep fighting, keep fighting.' You know, what we realized after last week was we were 1-2 whether we were bitter or not, so what good did it do to be bitter? We just had to focus on football and forget all the other stuff." McCarthy did an excellent job making sure the other stuff didn't ruin their game Sunday.
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danhandydanhandyMember
quote:
Originally posted by chickenboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Music City: As I mentioned: dropped passes, dropped INTs, penalties, turnovers. They're still not there- not even close.


Agreed. I will also add that AR, despite his best game, also still seems off to me. Note he set a bar last season that maybe will impossible to reach. The one throw that seems off is the "rocket balls" down the sideline instead of using the touch he seemed to have last year. His pick was under thrown but also had no touch. Aikman commented on his throws a few times during the game.

Again, he set the bar incredibly high last season.


Agreed Chicken:

I was going to comment on the pick that ARod threw down the sideline. This was not the 1st one like that this year. He seems to be relying on his arm strength instead of putting more air under the ball. Both Int's thrown this year on that sideline route would have TD's if only he relied more on touch that velocity.
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chickenboychickenboyTic Toc
quote:
Originally posted by Tdog: ...but I'm not worried... yet.


My commentary is not that I am worried. It's just play by him that isn't consistent with his last couple of years. One thing that I really enjoyed yesterday that seemed to be missing to some degree this season was tucking it and running.

Still isn't a QB in the league, I, chickenboy, would rather have.
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BrainDedBrainDedMember
quote:
toughest throw/window to make in an NFL passing game. AR will get it corrected. Didn't that happen after the poke in the eye as well? that probably didn't help matters, no excuses, but I'm not worried... yet.


No that was before the poke, I think.

I think #12 is having problems with his footwork.. He is relying too much on ability and throwing from awkward stances even when he doesn't have to do so. It might be because he feels rushed to get the ball out, it might be him being lazy, but it is correctable.
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