McGinn; Packers need more tackling practice

There are times I wish Bob was a real GM so he could implement his philosophies for keeps and those actions would then be subject to actual scrutiny and accountability.

 

This is one of those times.

So getting tackled more helps to strengthen ACLs, PCLs, MCLs, etc.

 

Huh. Never knew that.

 

Does getting shot more help with deflecting bullets?

I fail to see where live tackleing, would have wared off Bulgua and Harris' injurys

I think the argument that the body gets used to stress is valid.

Isn't all that tackling dangerous for all those fat, out-of-shape slobs like Raji and Pickett? Oh, wait...

 

I can't believe GB doesn't mirror the approaches of those elite organizations like the Jaguars and the Chefs.  

 

I understand trying to explain the injuries, as Bob is probably getting a million emails that mirror the freak-outs you see on this here innerwebs site.  I also understand and have no problem with him offering a different theory than stretching or FIRE THE TRAINERS NOW!  Regardless, this is a pretty weak argument but a pretty aggressive reach.  

Well, I'm sure you are aware both have new staffs. It's not Romeo and whoever the Jags had.

 

I can see both sides to this but the comment below seems a bit disturbing:

 

They've practiced in pads merely six times in the last four weeks.

Isn't the number of practices with pads limited now due to the bargaining agreement?  I recall MM wasn't happy with the huge restrictions placed on that number so that the number of those practices have to be rationed across the season.  I'm not sure if that's what's at play here.

When people get tuned that tightly and proceed to run in to each other at full speed, something's gotta give.

• Q: Jesse, Atlanta - Hi Bob, From time to time I hear McCarthy speak of the new CBA rules hampering his evaluation of the team.    I assumed it was because he could not practice the team in pads as often as he wanted.   But on several occasions in this camp he has either cancelled a practice, shortened it, or changed the padded practice to shells.   Makes me wonder if the new CBA rules really affect his job all that much.  Or is there another reason the coach brings this up?
• A: Bob McGinn - Jesse: I hope you read my column in newspaper and online tomorrow. This subject will be addressed. It's my understanding that all the CBA does in August is limit a team to one practice a day. There are no restrictions on the number of pads practices in camp, or how much contact a coach can do in those practices. The restrictions occur in the regular season and the number of pad practices.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/221229461.html

Q: Ted, Milwaukee - Do you keep Starks? He is what he is. This is his 4th season with the Packers and it's not like he's gonna change. If I was Ted Thompson I'd part ways and move on.

• A: Bob McGinn - Ted: If Lacy gets hurt, and it's inevitable that he will, do you want Johnathan Franklin running the ball? John Kuhn? I'd take Starks over everyone else and go from there. He had a good camp and one bad game. Starks has his weaknesses in the pass game and he'll probably get hurt again, but until then he's the next-best bet in the post-DuJuan Harris backfield.

Mr. Brightside.

Is McGinn a drinker?  Does he have family issues?  Stock portfolio not looking as good as he had hoped?  He has some issues he needs to work through.

 

McCarthy believes in preparing his team during the pre-season like they will work during the season. He talks about Monday film study, Tuesday game plan implementations, Wednesday contact, Thursday this and Friday that... He believes in and strongly preaches consistency and repetition. Anyone who works out consistently knows that the body gets used to that pattern. The limited contact during the season (controlled by the CBA) has been replicated (by McCarthy and staff) in the pre-season. I doubt he'll change his philosophy considering their year-over-year success.

 

 

McGinn is correct, with the new CBA...

 

» Gone are the grueling two-a-day practices that have long been a staple of training camps. In their place, teams are able to conduct one full-contact padded practice per day accompanied by a walkthrough period.

 

» The league has also placed limits on the number of full-contact padded practices during the regular season. Teams are permitted a total of 14 for the year with 11 of those practices conducted during the first 11 weeks of the season (a maximum of one per week).

 

 

Sports injuries have been studied extensively and if there was an easy answer the organization would be aware of it. I prefer science and Bob's just peddling snake oil to frustrated fans.

The small-brains NEED to blame somebody or something and McGinn is only too willing to give them a goat to scape

 

pandering to dumdums is a good way to increase web traffic

 

Packers; McGinn needs more tackling practice

Home run satan o

Wooo boy this is an article.  I haven't fisked an article since Cheesehead TV told us Rodgers and the offense was not clutch.  

 

Please ensure that your seats belts are fastened and your tray tables and seats are in an upright position...

 

Year after year, the Packers fail August.

 

And, as we all know championships are won in August.  Oh, wait, it's actually like January and February.  Oh.  Well, then.  

 

Before they wave the white flag, the Packers ought to think outside the box. McCarthy and his people have nothing to lose a year from now. It can't get any worse than this.

 

Think outside the box.  WHY DIDN'T MM THINK OF THAT!  Sounds like McGinn recently attended a management workshop with The Bob's from Office Space.  And, injuries happen, they can't be controlled.  I understand you need to drive page views, but doing hot yoga or ballet or stretching isn't going to magically prevent injuries at all times.  

 

If it were me, I'd put the players in pads more often. And then many of the practices, at least in the first two weeks of camp, would feature 11-on-11 periods of live tackling in which everyone except the quarterback could and would be brought to the ground.

If serial worrywart Ted Thompson can't bear to watch, so be it. Packers smacking Packers is the way to harden their football team.

 

Bob contradicts himself within the span of one freaking sentence.  Let's examine.  Bob's view is that the way to prevent injuries is to use armchair GM language like "Harden their football team", oops, I mean his view is that the way to prevent injuries is to hit in pads more often, bring players to the ground.  Get their bodies used to being hit.   But then before even completing that thought states "except the quarterback".  Why exclude the quarterback Bob?  WHY DO YOU HATE AARON RODGERS BOB?  Why does Bob McGinn want every player BUT the quarterback to become hardened men of steel that laugh at your concepts of injury.  Surely he's not so hypocritical as to state that getting hit prevents injuries, but we can't hit the QB lest he might be injured?  I mean, that's the implication, right Bob?  We MUST HIT MORE TO PREVENT INJURIES!  WE MUST NOT HIT THE QB TO PREVENT INJURIES.  Maybe he'll simply move on and prove how injuries can totally be prevented.  Let's hope.

 

Certainly, some players will get hurt. It's inevitable. Risk lurks around every drill.

 

Oh dear.  Risks lurk.  Inevitable.  MM AND TT'S FAULT.  

 

But the human body must be conditioned to play this violent game. It becomes conditioned best by real football, and that means the man with the ball being put on the ground.

 

The best way to prevent being injured by a bullet is getting shot repeatedly.  IT'S SCIENCE MAN.   

 

Hate to bring this up Bob, but how many ACL and other injuries are the "non-contact" kind and how do you prevent those?  Using your logic, wouldn't Steve Brown of the Giants been able to prevent his non contact ACL injury by not ever being contacted?  

 

The Packers have been living in mortal fear of injury since Thompson and McCarthy took over. It's time they confront those fears and begin developing a team that doesn't start coming apart in late July.

 

 

MAN UP YOU PUSSIES and confront your fears.  Be more like every other GM, be more like Eric Mangini and run 3 a days every freaking day in full pads.  That's the path to success. 

 

This is the eighth straight pre-season in which Green Bay has had more players declared unavailable than its opponents. Of the 31 summer games that McCarthy has coached, the Packers have had more scratched, or injured, players in 26.

 

 

And, this is the eighth straight season in which the Lombardi trophy is awarded to the team that has the most players available for pre season games.  It's a shame that Thompson and McCarthy haven't been able to understand this.  Oh, wait, that's right, the results and "players available" for exhibition games is pretty much meaningless.   The goal is to win games in the regular and post season, however that happens.  And, last I checked MM and TT were as good as any in that regard.  I know its sad we've lost the all important "exhibition players available" metric 8 straight years, but I'll console myself with NFC North titles, a Super Bowl win, and winning.  

 

Don't get the impression that McCarthy directs an easy camp. His half-line drills for the running game are conducted at or close to full-bore among the linemen. His tempo is keen. He's a taskmaster.

 

My god Bob, you sound like Jefferson's little brother after Spicoli crashed his car.  Make up your mind dude, is MM a pussy that doesn't harden his team, or does he manage full bore practices and is a taskmaster?

 

If memory serves, McCarthy has never had any practice periods with tackling.

 

If memory serves.  Well, then.  That's enough for me.  

 

What's interesting is that 13 of the 32 teams, based on my survey this week of beat writers and club officials, did include periods of tackling this summer.

 

 

What's interesting is that 19 of the 32 teams basically did things like MM and TT and you conveniently ignored that.  What would be more interesting is to understand which franchises are include in this 13.  Methinks that Bob knows exactly who these 13 he refers to are, and they don't bolster his story.  Oh wait!

 

In Pittsburgh, coach Mike Tomlin harkened back to the days of coach Chuck Noll by instituting periods of tackling in every practice for the first week. Bill Cowher never did that, and Tomlin hadn't, either.

 

"Physicality is an asset of ours," Tomlin told Sports Illustrated. "In order to make it an asset, we've got to do it."

 

He added: "The only way to improve is to play football. I've stated that many times, and it's something I believe in. I'm going to give (players) an opportunity to do that and show what they're capable of."

 

Let's ignore that the Cowher didn't.  Let's ignore that Tomlin didn't.  Let's focus on specifically McGinn's smoking gun as it were.  A Super Bowl winning coach now agrees with Bob!  He practices tackling EVERY DAY!  

 

To improve.  Playing football.  Tomlin didn't say a damn thing about preventing injuries.  Oh Bob.  This is getting silly.  Honestly, Bob, if you wanted to write an article saying "the Green Bay Packers defense doesn't play well enough or tackle well enough or isn't physical enough, and I think they should hit/tackle/play in pads more often" he could write that article and while it's still simplistic, at least it has context and the logical leap from "practicing tackling = better tackling" is pretty small vs the grand canyon leap of "practicing tackling = fewer injuries".  

 

Oh wait.  Bob lists teams that the Packers obviously should emulate by tackling more you goddamn pussies.  

 

Kansas City

Jacksonville

Dallas

Minnesota

Detroit

St Louis

New York Jets

Baltimore

Oakland

Buffalo

 

I don't even know how to respond to this.  The Jets.  Jacksonville.  Buffalo.  Oakland That's who Bob McGinn thinks the Packers should run their organization and philosophies like.  I'm developing an eye twitch now.  I can't go much further.

 

Injured against Seattle were Brad Jones (hamstring, 18 snaps), safety Morgan Burnett (hamstring, 12), DuJuan Harris (aggravated patellar tendon, 12) and Casey Hayward (aggravated hamstring, 10).

 

So, the example Bob lists as the worst thing - 3 hamstring injuries and a patella tendon.  How exactly does more tackling prevent hamstring injuries?  Or a patella tendon injury?  I mean, sweet mother of god Bob.  You'd sound more logical stating that Bikram Yoga would have prevented these.  Tackling more does NOTHING to help the hamstrings of the person being tackled.  I don't even understand what language he's speaking anymore.  

 

Mike Sherman, who always had periods of live tackling in camp, was almost injury-free in 2001, '03 and '04.

 

And, I'm done.  When you pull up Mike Sherman as your example I'm freaking done.  Well, just a couple more.

 

If a starter went down with a major injury in a live period, I'd never second-guess McCarthy. That's football.

 

Of course you would Bob.  You're second guessing injuries IN THIS VERY ARTICLE THAT ARE NOTHING MORE THAN "THAT'S FOOTBALL".

 

At least it seems that way to me, but I'm no expert.

 

Now I'm done.

 

"The thing is, Bob, it's not your writing that's lazy, it's that you just don't care."

Awesome new avatar.  Top 10 scene from that show.

 

Good stuff

would practicing tackling take away from stretching time?

Bravo CAP!

 

People seem to hold McGinn in some sort of reverence because he has been doing it a long time. What sucked then still sucks now. Just because he's been watching and writing about football for a long time doesn't mean he understands football like a professional or is qualified to say what works. 

Read several times over the years that McGinn is considered by his peers to be one of the best in the business. I really like his work and by saying that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.

 

I read that piece as basically well researched theory on the epidemic of injuries the Pack has had during the TT/M3 tenure. Don't have to agree with the theory to find it an interesting read.

quote:

Read several times over the years that McGinn is considered by his peers to be one of the best in the business.

Which says more about journalists as a group than it does about the quality of McGinn's work.  They're a bunch of blowhards who can dish it out, but not take it.

All reporters and columnists fall into the same bucket? Not even a black and white discussion like everything else? They are just all bad?

 

Agreed.

Packer have a lot of injuries.

Packers don't tackle in practice.

Other teams tackle in practice and don't have as many injuries.

Packers may reduce injuries if they tackled in practice like other teams.

 

Conclusion:

 

Flag football poses a greater risk to human health than real football.

 

So the next time anyone gets the itch to blast Goodell for turning the NFl into a flag football league, you may want to think twice about the different kind of evil plan that sick bastard really has.

I disproportionately find them to be self-righteous and, when they're proven wrong, double down on their stupidity.  See Mike Florio for a good example.

What exactly is his theory, do you believe?  As I read it, it's "Packers sustain more injuries because they don't go "live" with tackling in practice", a philosophy 19/32 teams in the NFL per McGinn is in alignment with.  It's a theory.  It may be interesting.  

But more importantly, I'm struggling to find any research that back up the claim that more live practices including tackling leads to fewer injuries.  

 

You claimed it was well researched.  Can you help point to this research?  I'm missing it.  

 

He mentioned that "Kansas City has had fewer injuries". Hardly exhaustive research.

 

These statements talk about teams that go live:

 

In the NFC, Dallas had a few live red-zone sessions, St. Louis ran a few series one day, Minnesota tackled the second day of camp and Detroit declared about half a dozen sessions live on the goal-line.

 

In the AFC, the New York Jets and Baltimore incorporated live goal-line tackling for a few days. Denver did it once, Oakland a little bit and Buffalo tackled on the sixth day.

 

Cincinnati coach Marvin Lewis still goes old-school with the rip-snorting Oklahoma Drill on the first day. Running backs aren't tackled then, but they were on three other days in camp.

 

But I see no comparison whatsoever to more/less injuries vs teams that don't go live.

 

Where's this research you call out?  Seriously, I've read the article three times now and there isn't a lick of research whatsoever that can support his premise that more hitting and tackling in practice leads to fewer injuries.  Can you point me to what I'm missing?

 

I mean if you're actually serious and not just being your contrarian self thinking it makes you cute and garners you attention. 

I've seen plenty of complaints on this forum about the Packers' tackling during games. 

Gee, I wonder if they practice tackling more often that the tackling during games would improve.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicag...ars-practice-routine

 

"You're going to see very, very few collisions in the perimeter because we're going to be practice(ing) the concepts of cooperation and respect among our team. But where you'll see the change in our practices is on or near the line of scrimmage, at the first level with our offense and defensive lines, and at the second level (with) collisions with our linebackers and defensive backs that are close to the line of scrimmage. But there won't be any tackling. Running backs will be allowed to finish, and when they're allowed to finish, everybody can go and run to the ball. You won't see grabbing for jerseys. You'll see minimal tipped balls."

 

 

The Bears have virtually NO injuries. This contradicts everything that McGinn says in his article regarding contact. That said, I hope TT and MM dig deep into the "whys" as to muscle pulls and strains. Knees, ankles, etc., cannot be avoided. But I think there are certain things that can be done to minimize pulls and strains. If McGinn has a point about tackling in practice, it would be that it probably makes you a better tackler in games if you practice it. Injuries would be a negative by-product though, IMO.

Being a good journalist and doing that job well, and being respected by your journalist peers does not qualify you as having any expertise to offer advice on how to coach/run an NFL team.  No? 

I don't agree with Bob but something is up..   One year is bad luck, Two years in a row is really bad luck and 3 years in a row is a trend.

It's either something they are doing / not doing or it's the players being selected. 

Finally a voice of reason.  Crosby should also practice more kicks, Rickie Weeks should spend some more time in the batting cage and Larry Sanders should take more free throws.

Lazy murica is problem, plain and simple. 

 

You can't argue with the ultimate source of info - complaints on message boards over the years.  That's like the theory of relativity wrapped inside the Pythagorean theorem stacked on top of long division.  

Then there's this:

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.c...tackles-2012-defense

Quick question:  what's your current hat size ?

Damn facts. 

 

Ruined yet another good rant/diaper soiling meme.

I think covering the league on a day-to-day basis for 20-some (maybe 30-some) years and also writing a couple books on the sport gives one quite a bit of credibility on the subject. Andrea Mitchell has never held public office but I would value her expertise on politics.