Of all that, my only concern is Jolly. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees...and at a position we don't have lot of depth at.

 

Crossing my fingers.

From the "I'm not going to make big changes" statement and once again praising Capers (much like he did after the 2012 season) if Capers gets fired you can bet the mortgage it wasn't MM's idea. To me it's pretty clear he wants him going nowhere.

 

Jolly seeking a 2nd opinion also makes me nervous. That tells me the initial evaluation wasn't good and that's exactly the process Nick Collins went through. We all know how that turned out.

He's done. Finley is done....Blow the whole thing up!

Second opinion usually means you didn't like the first.  DocBenni's sources say he could be done.

And so did Jolly's agent Jack Bechta.

Glad Johnny had the chance to pull on the jersey and redeem himself on the field.

I think when McCarthy says no big changes, so while Capers isn't going anywhere, it doesn't mean there won't be changes on the D staff. Several coaching staffs made available with all the firings- some pretty good D coaches on that Cleveland staff...

I sure would like to know what ALL the "emotional" discussions were about that MM referenced over the past couple days. Would love to have been a fly on the wall for all those things said.

I like most of it, but I don't like this:

 

MM:

I realize Morgan Burnett had a new contract. He's what you want. He needs to be better.

If someone NEEDS to get better, seems to me I am unsure he is what you want.

RE: "emotional" discussions... 17 FAs, some won't be back.

 

RE: Burnett... has what you want in regards to intelligence and talent, but just needs to play better.

i can't believe the 'defense was playing well' what planet are you on? - this defense is worse than average, that's what passes for 'well' now? to have improvement, this defense needs to change.

Im kind of torn on that. Never had I seen more wide open guys running free in one season. Never had I seen poorer angles taken, and whiffs on tackles, and hitting big but not wrapping up etc. It was maddening at times to watch this defense play. And yet...when you factor in all the injuries, missed time by players on that unit, in crunch time the past 4-5 weeks they were able to do just enough, able to make certain stops to barely scrape out a victory when they needed. Granted they did not get it done on that final drive, but they did enough to get the team into the playoffs, ugly as it looked most times. 

 

All season we had heard that Capers' defenses are predicated and rely upon turnovers. They were able to do some of that the last 3-4 weeks. Hyde was in a position to make a game ending int. Tramon was able to aggressively attack a poorly thrown ball and intercept. 

 

I think as much poor play as we can cite from the season as a whole, there are things to build on, first and foremost getting and keeping players healthy. I don't believe we can get a true and accurate picture of what this defense could accomplish if all the parts aren't on the field.

 

This wasn't the 2010 team. There was no Nick Collins or Woodson to take a leadership role and have that calming effect, and get guys on same page. How often did we witness defenders being unsure of their assignment right up to the snap of the ball. This is what needs to be ironed out in the offseason, and if guys can't understand their job description they need to be weeded out. I believe the talent level on the defense while not stellar, is definitely workable in conjunction with a high powered offense.

If by "excellent" he means failing to get players to the point where they know their assignments within the defense by week 18, I concur.

Really not much new from MM.

Dom will be back.

Looks like Jolly is done.

On the bright side What MM said about Bulaga and Sherrod was positive.

Other then that MM did not say much we did not already know.

Braindead I don't understand why you're so dead set on this idea that the coaches didn't prepare the players properly? Couldn't it be the players knew what they had to do but didn't execute? There's a level of responsibilities with the players on the field where they have to read the play and then act accordingly. It's not offense where the coach draws it up and everyone goes to a specific spot and if you execute properly then you gain yards. Defense is about knowing your responsibilities, anticipating what the offense will do, reading what they're doing, and then reacting to what you read. If you can't do those things as an individual the you will be unsuccessful and if you have 7 out of 11 players on the defense not doing all of those things then your defense will be unsuccessful.

To me, again not to beat a dead horse, but it goes back to accountability.

 

In Capers staff, there is very little. You hear guys like Tramon and Mike Neal say things like Capers is very even keeled. Doesn't get rattled. Doesn't yell. Doesn't single players out. Doesn't scream at guys.

 

In some ways yes, that's good. Do I want a d bag like Schwartz screaming on the sidelines? No.

 

But the flip side to that is when a BJ Raji is dragging his fat ass around the field or taking off plays entirely (several scouts noted this in 2012 and 2013), when MD Jennings is again clueless and blows an assignment, when Brad Jones or Nick Perry can't tackle for shi* or their efforts are pathetic (see Perry in week 17 Bear game), when AJ Hawk over pursues and can't stay in his lanes and when the ENTIRE safety group are the only ones in the NFL with ZERO interceptions...

 

Bottom line? There is no accountability for that. Guys still keep playing. Keep starting. Virtually no one is benched. Nothing.  So then tell me what the incentive is for Jennings or a Raji to play harder? You know..that whole "development" thing that the Packers are built on.

 

That's where my concern is. And MM giving Capers yet another ringing endorsement doesn't exactly instill in me those kinds of changes in accountability will take place in 2014.

What do you want to know?  If he is a folder or crumbler?

Who do you play if you bench all these guys?  We've seen what the 2nd and 3rd stringers can do and it taint better.  How many people were crowing for Lattimore to get more snaps and look what happened there.

 

I totally agree with players and coaches needing to be accountable but how is that done with what we've had on the roster?  I know, "coaching is the problem".  Circular argument.

"Couldn't it be the players knew what they had to do but didn't execute?"

I don't consider blown coverages and 12 men on the field type errors as failing to execute.   That's failing to be mentally prepared or organized. 

Hawk and Burnett failed to execute when they were in position to defend that TD pass to Davis..  That's on the players..  On a weekly basis throughout the season we saw some players playing the entirely wrong D and allowing gaping holes in the secondary or contain..  

 

That falls on the coaches because job duty #1 is teaching the players the assignments.   Anything else is secondary.  A player can have all the fundamentals down and physical tools, but if he is out of position it doesn't matter. 

And who's job is it to prepare a Lattimore to be assignment ready?

 

Coaches.

 

And a guy in Leroy Butler (probably knows something about football) said during Bear week it's nothing short of ridiculous that this late in the season Lattimore doesn't know what or where the F to line up. That lies squarely on coaching.

 

And if it was one player, fine. You could say maybe Lattimore doesn't get it. But it's not one player. It's also Jennings. It was also McMillen to the point where Capers ok'ed just releasing him. It was apparently Datone Jones who despite being our 1st round pick couldn't get on the field for more then 300 snaps. That's our 1st round pick. You kidding me?

 

How many times did we hear _____ is not assignment sure. _____ still doesn't know where to line up.

 

As Butler pointed out, if the defense is that complicated then you have to either get coaches who can teach or you strip down the complexity of the plays so players who actually DO GIVE effort like Lattimore can know where the hell to line up and get onto the field. Very few would doubt his ability to lay the wood on a player and bring some nasty to this D. Figure out a way to teach him where to be.

 

 

Oh oh, sounds like Capers is getting fired.

Packerboi just laid the wood!

Fatal praise and vote of confidence?

 

We've seen that before.

Deja vu??

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnor...bob-sanders/count/16

I still think the dummed down version of Caper's defense is piss poor.  Maybe his perfect scenario defense works just super, I guess I have to see that as well. 

Poor packerboi,

nothing more disheartening than having a poster named BrainDed clapping and pointing to your take 

McCarthy's comments sounded like a eulogy to me...there is no reason he couldn't say-Dom Capers is not going anywhere...some new blood is needed and McCarthy knows that

I don't know for whom MM's eulogy is for: Jolly or Capers. Jolly sounds done, and if so, it was a great story that he got to come back to the green-and-gold for one last shot. If he is done, I hope he has his life in order and continues to be successful.

 

I don't know if MM is saying Capers is done. His emphasis on looking at coaches and what happened this year indicates something may be up, but exactly what that is will be interesting. MM can be loyal to a fault: look how long he stuck with Sanders and the zone blocking scheme before finally making changes. He can't exactly fire Moss, Greene, Trog all at the same time and keep Capers, can he? To blame it on one unit, say LBs, is not accurate or indicative of the sieve our D has become. So, if coaches go, it seems it would have to be Capers.

 

MM is taking some time to come to a decision, in contrast to those of us who would like Capers gone yesterday. Props to MM for that, as long as he gets it right. Oh, and word out of Minnesota is that apparently Zygi is intrigued by the 3-4, so Capers would probably land in Queensland.  

@Patricia_Traina Report: Packers Quarterbacks Coach Ben McAdoo Will Interview for Giants’ OC Job http://wp.me/p2jl6l-1Z2

Special teams player and UDFA Jamari Lattimore isn't (yet) good enough to be a starting ILB in the NFL

 

4th round compensatory pick Jerron McMillian didn't make the huge leap to the NFL from his small school in Maine. The 4th round pick used on McMillian is the highest pick ever used on a Maine Black Bear a DII school that no other teams scouted

Additionally, comp picks are for taking a flyer per the Packers front office

 

MD Jennings an undersized safety from Arkansas State who wasn't good enough for a combine invite or one of the 271 draft picks used in 2012 didn't pan out at starting safety in the NFL

 

Datone Jones, like the vast majority of first round DL is spending his time learning the techniques and nuances of playing in the NFL. Look no further than the comments from our resident football savant, Goalline, who proclaimed after the draft:

 

"Gentlemen, temper your enthusiasm, DL take time to make it in the NFL"

 

This brilliant comment was in response to my ( over) exuberant praise of the young man's skills. Dude was right. And that's what Datone is learning from coach Trgo and his team mates. Hand placement, technique, shading, first steps, zone blitz drops, double teams etc.

A first round DL taking time to mature isn't really much of an indictment of the coaching staff

Its pretty much what happens all over the league and Dick LeBeau commented about it just the other day in Silversteins article at JSO. He doesn't even want the rookies in there on his version of the 3-4 until they learn from the vets

 

LeRoy Butler-  hasn't played a down in over a decade, never played in a modern 3-4 system and played for a DC that used very few sub packages. He played with an all-star defense that faced a very different NFL. On top of that , he currently works for a media outlet that prefers he speak in extremes, creates interest, clicks and comments. I'll freely acknowledge that he is exceedingly football smart, one of the best ever - but I won't give his current comments enough credence to indict a coaching staff and system he's never been a part of. Offenses are light years different than they were 12 -15 years ago and so are the defensive chess moves developed to thwart them.

There are a ton of checks and calls that happen on every play and those complex checks and calls are why an ILB with below average skills continues to collect a check in GB

 

Those checks and calls are a big part of why the Packers made the playoffs in the first place. The 4th and 8 pass from Rodgers to Cobb may not happen if safety Chris Conte gets the right check from his mates. He's standing there flat footed in a zone squat while Cobb races by. He was supposed to switch to man coverage

Sometimes its a bad play call, sometimes the guy can't get there, sometimes he didn't hear it etc. So many leap to conclusions on a play when the truth is none of us, not even LeRoy knows the calls and responsibilities on any given play

 

Pro Football Focus charts every play and the first thing they tell people is the disclaimer that they don't know the calls, so assigning a plus/minus grade is a guess on their part. An educated guess, but still a guess

 

Fans are mad and want a better defense.

So do the guys at 1265 and I'm quite confident they will get it fixed; but they may not follow your chosen plan. If you can find a way to be OK with that, I promise you'll be richly rewarded

 

The problem is this is exactly what our guys are not doing!
They may be doomed from the get-go if they aren't lined up correctly, but assuming they are, their read and react are gawdawful.

Opponents killed us with play-action all year; our guys bite on the fake instead of the ball or their man, our LBs flail wildly into the middle of the defense, contain is lost, our DBs are looking in the backfield while a WR blows right by them....it goes on and on.

Even worse, this isn't limited to our rookies or second year guys.

 

 

Defense is also about the weakest link.  When Tramon is talking about wanting veterans it's pretty clear to me he's talking about MD Jennings. A safety who's level of play is close to practice squad quality drags the whole defense down. 

 

It especially hurts Burnett.  I'm not excusing all his mistakes but he's played at a lot higher level in the past and trying to keep Jennings in line had to hurt his performance.  

Anyone that honestly thinks Burnett would be as "bad" as some people think he is if Nick Collins was next to him doesn't know the game of football at all.

Yup.

 

TT is making his shots and drafting plenty for D.

 

History has proven history means **** and everything all at once.

 

I concurr that it takes time to learn the NFL and the various physical techniques.

 

Being prepared and able to quickly share calls is one thing.  Being pyshically able to take those calls and execute is yet another.

 

I have seen plenty of talent and ability in the players drafted for their positions, along with those who just flat out busted their ass and have earned a career in the NFL. 

 

To clarify, this discussion is solely about Defense.

 

Even counting injuries, rookies, career backups, and those who probably should be career backups;

 

There has not been the hoped for and somewhat expected amount of growth.

 

I realize that yes, there is a transition to the NFL, especially at the DL position. I am not worried about DJ.  Worthy, I think he is almost the textbook case for a DL that needs a year or so to figure out the NFL. 

 

As far as the young LBs go, Perry is somewhat worriesome, is it injuries or noggin? As easily we watched him excel when 'healthyish' from the right, he seemed to keep playing the left. Even when common sense seemed to scream "best bits to best spots and go from there".  Lattimore sat, Mulumba and Palmer didn't get any kind of chance.  But when they did, they were unprepared.

 

I think the Mike Neal experiment went really well.  Mike played through injury, of course on a contract year, but he does seem to love it here.  Who would blame him?

 

I am sick of typing.  Nobody will say it, but I will.

 

Is Kevin Greene that good? "It is time!" May have run out of time.  I have not been impressed by preparedness of our young LBs not named Clay or Hawk.

 

We have an assload of 1st and 2nd round picks in our D. They need to be coached up. Or replaced. The coach up isn't working. 

 

Do we wait one more year and hope the coaching up kicks in, or do we give up on 32.4523% of the roster?

 

Satori should be the only one around here who's allowed to have an opinion.

 

Thanks Joseph Stalin

McCarthy: "I thought our special teams was extremely challenged this year with all the change there. Yeah, this was clearly the most challenge.”

 

No chit coach? We haven't had good special teams since Nolan Cromwell left!

Hmmm, wants to keep Capers and thinks Burnett should be better.

Someone is going from the defensive coaching staff, from above sounds like Perry might be on hotseat ...

 

Yep, the NFL tends to be a matchup league, which is why experienced guys help a lot because guys coming out of college generally aren't that well-prpared for the depth of NFL schemes. Take QBs as an example.

 

With a Peyton Manning they can do pretty much anything they want to try and exploit matchups because he's a wily vet who knows (and, in some ways, runs) the system inside and out.

 

Then take a Ryan Tannehill/RG III/Cam Newton. The reins are much tighter on those guys and it's more of a "system" because they aren't yet prepared to dissect NFL defenses the way the vets are and why guys like Rodgers have a distinct advantage of having some time to learn/catch up before having to be the starter. 

 

Agreed... but Burnett is being paid (And has the skill set) to be a guy that makes the other guy lining up next him better.  He needs to elevate his game.  Zero sacks, zero INT's and zero forced fumbles ain't cutting it.