Just some new blood. Don't need some loud mouth rehash coaching the team.
Sometimes, the loudmouth is the coach because he has a sounding board. Not too often is it an assistant because, I believe, teams can control how much access the media has to asst. coaches.
I don't know if Ryan would be a good DC or not, but I don't think you'd hear much from him wherever he coached if he wasn't the head coach.
No matter how you slice it, the guy is still a loudmouth with a foot fetish.
I think Capers will be coaching for his job these next 4 games.
Again, don't know that he'd be a good DC or not, but I don't really care about a coach's personality (or fetishes, for that matter). Kevin Greene seems like a pretty animated guy. For all we know, he's a loudmouthed SOB. But posters/fans seem to like him as a coach.
I just want to the Packers to have a Top 15 defense to go with their very fantastic offense (when healthy). Whoever can do that is fine by me.
Kevin Greene is a much younger guy that seems to be more in tune with today's game.
I don't think Capers survives. This past month has been an epic meltdown by the defense just when the team needed it the most. You could make a strong case to remove him each of the past two offseasons; I think similar to Bob Sanders, they've realized the shortcomings a bit too late. Whether they fire him or let him retire, we'll see. But enough is enough.
On the who to replace him, you have four kinds of options:
1) Internal candidate
2) Ex-defensive minded head coach (Phillips, Ryan, Smith, etc.)
3) Current NFL Assistant
4) Current college coordinator
I have no interest in group #1, as they've been part of the problem. I agree that #2 is basically playing for a one-year window, since any success will likely result in another head coaching gig for those guys.
I'd also prefer a young up and comer. I feel like the game is changing so much and the guys who have been around so long may lack the adaptability required. You watch Kiffin's defense getting smoked in Dallas and it reminds you how much this game has changed since he was one of the top coordinators.
I don't know much about group 3, but I like the suggestions shared earlier.
For group 4, I mentioned Derek Mason from Stanford earlier. I really think he's legit...and he's a rare guy playing a pro system in college with pro experience under his belt. Another guy I'd throw out there is Justin Wilcox at UW. He's pretty young, but a really smart guy who plays a flexible scheme that mixes 4-3 and 3-4. I'd be curious to hear from GD, but I thought he did a good job at Tennessee and he's really improved that Washington defense since he joined. With Sark moving to USC, I'd imagine he'd go with, but he might be a good up and comer to bring to the pros.
Kevin Greene is a much younger guy that seems to be more in tune with today's game.
Kevin Greene is older by a few months. He may be more in tune with the game. Don't know how to judge that.
Going with 4) is a pretty big risk. There are many differences between the college and pro game, as well as player motivation, etc.
I would think most team looking at making a move in the Coaches/Coordinators are looking for those young up and comer's. Point being there will be competition, for these young, bright minds.
quote:No matter how you slice it, the guy is still a loudmouth with a foot fetish.
What about a guy like Bo Pelini. I wonder if he's had it with Nebraska (AD says he's 'safe') and could be lured back to the NFL. His defenses have been pretty stout at Nebraska, LSU and Oklahoma, and he is a former Packer Assistant.
Again, a bit of a loudmouth, but I think as an assistant, he wouldn't be in front of microphones too often.
Kevin Greene is a much younger guy that seems to be more in tune with today's game.
Kevin Greene is older by a few months. He may be more in tune with the game. Don't know how to judge that.
Kevin Greene looks like he could still play. Didn't realize that he was the same age as the dope with the Jets. Just don't need another guy like Dom. Either the offenses have adjusted to his schemes or he is unable to adjust his schemes to fit the current offenses.
Bo Pelini is regarded as one of the biggest azsholes in collegiate and pro coaching. No thanks.
Being nice is a requirement for a DC job?! If we limit our search to non-assholes we just eliminated 98% of the population.
If he can build a stout NFL quality defense add him to the list.
I want a good DC, not Goodwill Ambassador.
I don't think I'd describe Nebraska's defense as "stout" under Pelini. What did Wisconsin do against them last year? 650 yards and 70 points? Combine that with the guy's personality and no thanks.
I agree with the earlier comment that college coaches are risky b/c they haven't been at the pro level. However, there are some college coaches that have coached in the pros as well (e.g., Mason from Stanford was a defensive assistant for the Vikings for several years). I'd also add that the NFL is starting to mimic offenses that were started in college. Wildcat, Spread offenses, Pistol, etc....all started in college. I think there are some bright college minds that may not have the overall experience of a Capers (or Lovie Smith), but actually have better experience against this wave of young QBs and offensive systems in the NFL.
They need a screamer guy like Coach Dick-a.
I don't think I'd describe Nebraska's defense as "stout" under Pelini.
Me either, that's why I didn't say that. I said if he can build a stout NFL quality defense throw his hat into the ring.
Being nice is a requirement for a DC job?! If we limit our search to non-assholes we just eliminated 98% of the population.
If he can build a stout NFL quality defense add him to the list.
I don't mind having someone who isn't a nice person as a DC, hell I'm sure Vince Lombardi was called an a-hole once or twice in his GB tenure...but I'm not too crazy about guys like this that seem to burn bridges at every stop in their career, however. I'm concerned about how he'd fit in the organization.
Of course, I've never met the guy, and this is going off second hand stuff I've heard or read over the years. Maybe he'd work out. He strikes me as having similar qualities to the guy in Tampa Bay that everyone seems to want to run out of the NFL...that's what concerns me. That, and the fact that his defenses in Nebraska aren't exactly a ringing endorsement as to what he could bring to the NFL.
What about a guy like Bo Pelini. I wonder if he's had it with Nebraska (AD says he's 'safe') and could be lured back to the NFL. His defenses have been pretty stout at Nebraska, LSU and Oklahoma, and he is a former Packer Assistant.
This was the post I was referring to SJ. I should have quoted in my response. It's an interesting thought, but after seeing Pelini's Nebraska defense these past few years, I think that's the primary disqualifier even before the personality issues.
To avoid the problem of college coaches not being NFL ready, could they rob the high school ranks?
Take a look at Pelini's defenses when he was a coordinator, not a head coach. Some coaches are very good as coordinators just not very good at running the entire show (see Ray Rhodes, Wade Phillips, Buddy Ryan, etc.). Pelini's resume as a DC/defensive coach looks pretty good to me.
Don't knowhow he'd do as an NFL DC, but he's been successful in college.
Grave Digger
I think it would be a mistake to rule out a coach just because he "might" want to be a head coach some day soon. I'd actually think that would be a great selling point for a candidate. I don't necessarily want a guy who's content with just being a DC.
Not hiring someone because they might leave to be a head coach is ridiculous. You hire the best person, and if that person does such a great job he leaves, so be it.
Fans (and some front office people) often want a big name, or someone with the best stats. The last five weeks notwithstanding, McCarthy has been a good head coach for the Packers. Yet many fans were turned off of him because he did not come from a powerhouse program.
Brad Childress. Just saying.
Agree... but that's part of the problem. Hawk is spoken highly of for being assignment sure and being the "quarterback" of the defense. GB just signed Jones to a nice contract. That tells me they're pretty happy at MLB.
I don't think anyone really knows how long a coach "might" stay. But I don't want to rule someone out just because of this. Like you said, the window might be only a couple of years, who knows. So give me the best coach right now that wants the position. If they can make it to and win the Super Bowl with a one year with rental DC, I'll take it.
Transitions don't have to take multiple years either. Look at what Rob Ryan has done in New Orleans. And they went from a 4-3 last year to a 3-4, all in one off season. The Saints are in a great position right now, largely due to their defenssive adjustment in only 1 year. And that's with a couple of their best defensive players (Will Smith, J Vilma) out for the entire season.
Give me the best available DC now, and I'll deal with his replacement when the time comes.
So someone comes to GB and after 1 yr leaves for a HC job? He would have to be a miracle worker to turn this outfit around that quickly. More likely is this, who wants to come to GB with the talent on D that they currently have? Why do we assume high profile guys that could go anywhere want to go to GB?
Some Vikings fans want and think that Gruden and Cower are going there....preposterous.
They signed him to 3 year/11 million, not exactly a bank breaking deal. His cap number balloons to 4 million next season, so really this season was a "prove it" deal for Jones. I won't be surprised to see him released before March. Same goes for Hawk really, his cap number jumps to 6+ million next year and they will save close to 3 million by cutting him. The only players that TRULY safe are Rodgers and Matthews. The bulk of the guaranteed money for Hawk and Jones is already been paid.
if the new DC does such a damn good job that someone else wants him for a head coach in 2015, I can still sleep at night.
no, it is actually quite different.
Free agents get guaranteed contracts, coaches can be ****canned at any point. Coaches don't count against a salary cap, free agents do. I didn't say I want a free agent to come in to play one year, but if Ted signs a free agent to a one year contract, I hope like hell that he plays so damn good that we can't afford him the following year.
I'm all for the right guy, and despite always saying the DOM CAPERS is the greatest defensive coordinator ever, I think a change is due. Don't care if the new guy might have his sights on a head coaching gig, as long as he does a really good gob. If Green Bay helps build your resume, that can only be good for Green Bay.
I think Shanahan and his staff might get canned in Washington. Snyderbrenner is not a patient man and must be at the end of his rope with the Rat. Jim Haslett, another retread could be available. Also D coaches on the staff are our old buddy Bob Slowik and I assume his son Bobby Slowik, Raheem Morris, and Jocob Burney who coaches the D line. Not saying we should any of them, just that these guys might be available.
The more retreads I hear being bandied about, I keep asking myself, "Why would I replace Dom with this guy"?
I think a change is due, but if it's Wade Phillips or Jim Haslett we're talking about, I think I'll just stay the course with what we currently have.
These retreads are only , as far as we know being bandied about here and in bar rooms across Packer Nation. Fun for us but basically meaningless. Unless the powers that be consult this board before making major decsions.
My point was about mortgaging the future for the sake of a "window of opportunity" or a win now philosophy.
Yes if a Rex Ryan came in whipped the D into shape immediately and we won a SB it would be incredible and amazing and I would be so thankful he came to GB. So we won a SB, great, but there's still another season and another. You have to think long term. As I said, if Rex Ryan or whoever is going to commit to multiple seasons in GB then I agree it would be a great move, but I would be surprised if that were the case. It's just like with signing veteran FA's, you still have to find a long term answer eventually. Why not just take the time to find a good young DC who will be here for more than a season? That's better for the organization long term.
How many years of Rodgers being elite are left? 5 if we're lucky? If bringing in a Rex Ryan helps this team compete for a SB in that time window, and he's so good at whipping the D into shape that he's gone the next season...I'll take that all day, every day.
I guess we just disagree. If Rodgers has 5 years, I'd like to get someone who be here to help us compete for all 5.
