Name the new defensive coordinator

The whole thing seems like a red herring.  If GB were to hire some young up-and-comer who helped steer the defense to dominance and they won another SB next year, guess what?  That young guy would probably get hired away sooner than a retread who's already failed as a HC.  Any coordinator who is that successful on a title team is going to get a bigger job.  See Philbin, Joe.  

 

The biggest reason Dan Compers didn't even get a sniff at a HC job is because he's already been a HC and was not successful, which was why he went back to being a coordinator in the first place.

 

The premise of 'younger guy = stability' is not valid.

One might argue that the wunderkind  who fixes this crap-pile of a defense would be a hotter commodity than a recently canned HC who does the same.

I can only think of 1 example where a position coach became a DC and then immediately became a HC: Mike Tomlin. Other than him, teams tend to wait until coaches prove themselves. I think the likliehood of that scenario happening is low.

Edit: I guess Mangini went through the same scenario. Still 2 times in a decade isn't a trend.

 

Very well stated! 

 

A young up and comer can get hired as a HC just like a retread. Isn't thatwhat happened with Josh McDaniel, Eric Mangina, Raheem Morris , etc. 

 

We can certainly agree to disagree. But it's fun cyberconversation.  I just think the Packers have enough talent on D that with a few changes, they can be much improved by next season. I don't want to have to wait a few years if it's not necessarY (and I don't think it is).

It was odd to hear McCarthy acknowledging all of the missed tackles recently. That to me puts capers on the hot seat.

Not a fan of revolving doors but a defense can't be great without grasping fundamentals like tackling.

Maybe they're just afraid of tackling for fear of drawing a penalty and subsequent fine.

What about the dude from USC, Orgeron (sp?), bet he's pretty pissed about being passed over.  IIRC he's a defensive guy.

I suspect that if Dom goes there are 3 candidates on staff who would receive consideration; Trgovac, Perry and Winston Moss. I think Coach T does not want another D-C job, Moss is an unknown( was an up and comer a few years ago but that train has let the station) and Perry comes with a quiet reputation so I'm not sure who M3 would take but I suspect Darren Perry would be the guy. 

Pack88

I think you're probably right and that baffles me because his position group has been the weakest on the entire D. There isn't much talent to work with, but even then our Safeties look out of their element completely. The middle of the D has been ripe for the taking for teams since week 1 and a big part of that is the Safeties not being prepared or not being able to recognize what is coming. 

 

But to be fair to the Safeties I do think there is a larger problem beyond just those guys. You have the front 4/5 not being able to win one-on-one match-ups, so there isn't much pressure generated, so they have blitz the ILBs to try and get pressure. That means they can't be in coverage so there's a short and intermediate zone wide open for crossing routes. But when the ILBs are dropped into coverage, the front 4/5 can't get any pressure and so the QB has time to let routes develop and find the open man. Meanwhile the D wants to prevent deep plays so the Safeties have to give deep help to the CBs, opening up the zone, or the CBs are left in 1on1's deep and the QB still has time to let the WR get open because there is no pressure. On the flip side, the coverage has been so bad that we're not getting any coverage sacks because the Safeties can't play Zone, can't read the QB, and don't break on the ball. Everything affects everything on this D. The lack of talent isn't giving the coaches many options with how to scheme and the coaches aren't properly preparing and utilizing to get the most out of the talent they have. 

Those are good reasons why a team may decide against it.

Watching the Seahag D last night was depressing.  ILB actually moving with speed whether to tackle or pass protect was scary.  Having players in the core of your defense with ability to fly from side line to side line will make a lotta DC's look smert.  Better yet they tended to leave a mark wherever they arrived. 

I keep watching what that Luke Kuechly addition has done for Carolina.  ROTTT please take 2 and call us in the morning.

That's what I'm saying, after watching what Luke Kuechly has done for Carolina I'm convinced that is absolutely what we're missing. It doesn't start with the great pass rusher or an elite CB, it starts with strong ILB play...no matter what the D is. 

If MM makes a DC change I can't see him doing it with someone that is not established. After this year and the way the team is performing of late, he will probably be more concerned about restoring the teams credibility and will want someone with a track record. Turning the team around next year will be imperative or 2015 will be an inferno of heat on him.

Mel Tucker might be available.

So is Mel Tillis.

Might take a while to get the plays called in.

Not that Carolina are lacking in the DL area. This year I have become convinced that one weak area on D dooms the whole defense.

Apparently holds true for fake DC Tillis and real DC Tucker. Bears struggling to get calls in made Tucker come down to the sidelines from the coach's box.

 

In this long discussion; I continue to wonder when GB makes the  change, will the DC try a hybrid 3/4 - 4-3 such as they run in NE. Before this season started I thought that GB had a lot of depth and potential in the front 7.  I still think Datone Jones is going to be a good 3-4 end and Perry flashes more and more potential to be the running mate to Clay, and not to forget Worthy and Daniels at end and even  the P\S Josh Boyd looks to have potential.  I also thought GB had good depth at corner and only safety and ILB struck me as obvious bones of contention on this team.

 

    After the last five games I am convinced that whomever leads the defense in 2014 they will have to make some fundamental decisions:  I think TT lets BJ walk or franchises and trades him - with the money he saves he could buy a goodrun stuffer.  I also  suspect that the draft could be viewed a variety of ways but for this example suppose Rodgers doesn't play this week it is then likely that GB wins no more than 6 games and finshe 6-9-1 and probably drafts 12-14th.  Based on what I see and read the Alabama safety or either of the TE's that lead the board Eric Ebron or Jace Amaro could be the guy.  When this year started I felt this was a tryout year for Brandon Bostick but I think he is not ready.  Had Finley not had the career ender I thought the Iowa TE was a natural and probably available in Rd 3.  This bitter taste of this season will probably prompt TT to replace Finley with a ready to play player.  I have not seen any down D linemen that excite me this year although the Minn DE Hagemen has been getting a lot of ink and big games against big opponents are getting him notice but I just think unless one of the top LT's fall  it will be either Clinton Dix or Jace Amaro.  In an ideal world GB would find a speedy tough ILB but the best guy is likely a 2nd rounder  and I don't want another slow footed guy in there.  A few of the safeties might be good fits and I would prefer one that can play near the LOS and also run w\o falling.   The SS I like plays out here at WA state and he is a pretty solid football player (Deon Buchanon).   So for all of us who were hoping for anoher Desmond Bishop I don't see one in this draft and improvements there will have to come later in the draft or one of the back ups (Sam Barrington) will have to step up.

Pack88

If MM indeed replaces Capers, I'll ask you guys from different parts of the country if there are any hot prospects in the conference(s) you watch? Do they run same/similar/hybrid defenses? Have they had successful defenses over the last 2-3 years? Can they build a staff?

How about the SEC, Grave Digger? Alabama? I've seen times when they looked completely dominant, and times (*cough* Auburn *cough*) when they haven't. Based on record and ranking over the last few years, they would have to be pretty good. Also, I would think a coach under Saban should be well-schooled.

Not sure if there is another team in that conference that would fill the bill. What about South Carolina?

Do you watch any of the Big12 teams?

Any ACC guys on the board? Florida State?

JJSD, you watch some Pac12? 

Ditto for you, PB DPM. You mentioned the Oregon guy; have they been dominant on defense?

Not for sure of your area, Pack88, but you might have some opinions?

Any of you guys watch the Mountain conferences?

Ditto for the Big10/Mac/AAC?

I vote for Oshbaul to be the new defensive coördinator.

Kirby Smart is the DC at Bama, but 1) he's not the brains behind that defense and 2) he's  looked a lot better than I think he is because of the talent he gets to work with. Certainly he deserves credit for fielding great defenses, but I would be weary giving him the reins to a whole defense without Saban there. Same thing with a guy like Pat Narduzzi at MSU. Plus Bama's achilles heal recently has been mobile QBs who can also pass...sounds like Capers weakness also.

The ultimate problem with ANY Defensive Coordinator starts with the personnel on the field.  As GraveDigger mentioned, it starts with the DL.  No pressure, getting swallowed up by blockers and rarely making a tackle at the LOS.  Then, you couple it with ILBs that are slow and not impact players.

 

Also, your OLBs are more of the pass rush specialists, where coupled with poor quality ILBs, they do not do much either (tackles or consistent pressure).  You will even see Matthews become invisible in games (last game he had -- 2 tackles, 2 assists).  He has only 32 tackles on the year (with 6 sacks).  That shows that the DL are not allowing the LBs to work in space, but rather have to scrape off a lineman and make plays down the field.

 

Finally, you get to DBs that have been banged up and have to play predominantly zone coverage.  With no pass rush, anyone can pick you apart.  Look at the run-of-the-mill QBs who we have made look like All Pro QBs.  It starts up front and works its way back. Get a DL that will start doing something, allow LBs to work in open space and the DBs will start making plays due to hurried throws or shorter duration coverage.

 

Now, back to the DC.  Nobody, and I mean nobody, will look like a good DC with the personnel and the quality of the play from the personnel this team has shown lately.  No fire, no aggressiveness and no killer instinct.  Any DC would be foolish to take a gig without a plan on upgrading personnel at key positions.

What makes you think TT would buy a run stuffer?  Good run stuffers are hard to come by, which is why someone will pay a premium for an inconsistent player like Raji.  Besides, the last few UFA DEs TT picked up (Hargrove, Muir, Merling) all washed out, so finding a bargain-bin run stuffer is not too likely.

PB:  You are correct in that "Tight wad" Ted is loathe to spend but with the 8 million he offered BJ there are several players he could pay that would cost less and probably be as effective as Raji.  While run stuffers don't grow on trees they are not as rare as you surmise but the second statement "the last few he hired were awful" is a point of concern.  I guess time will tell and depending on who the DC is what priority is placed on an exact copy of Raji

Pack88

Not sure about the no pressure statement, Green Bay is third in total sacks.  I do think that might have been slightly inflated by teams having to pass more when Rodgers was leading the offense. 

I think that goes back to the old adage, it's not just sacks, it's getting consistent pressure down-to-down.  Three sacks in a game don't mean much when the q has all day on the rest of his drop backs.

Exactly. If a QB throws 40 passes and the Packers get 4 sacks, but those are the only times they are near the QB, is that a good pass rushing day? It's all about getting consistent pressure.

so the Packers are occasional sackers?

Pretty much, yeah. The Packers are one of the worst teams at generating pressure but one of the best at finishing when they do.

based on passing yards given up per game (offenses can still throw the ball willy nilly)?  How else can you say that?

 

The players wouldn't understand what play was called.  Well, maybe a few would.

Do they understand now what play is being called?

Lambeau field earlier today:

1st floor... McCarthy's office, MM is sitting at his desk looking down at a list of FA's GM Thompson is considering for workouts... DC Dom Capers is seated across from McCarthy commenting on the players as McCarthy names them one by one... then McCarthy switches the conversation.

 

MM: Uh, Dan.

DC: It's Dom.

MM: Whatever. Did you see that Kubiak got canned in HOU?

-- silence --

MM: Dan? Dan?

 

 

Lambeau field next Tuesday:

4th floor... Thompson's office, TT is sitting at his desk looking down at a list of FA's he is considering for workouts... HC Mike McCarthy is seated across from Thompson commenting on the players as Thompson names them one by one... then Thompson switches the conversation.

 

TT: Uh, Mark.

MM: It's Mike.

TT: Whatever. Did you see that Kubiak got canned in HOU?

-- silence --

TT: Mark?

MM: I'd be happy with Wade next season.

 

 

I would rather have Bum....

That would be an interesting concept.

Hungry5

 

 I like it. Scenes would be better if you could somehow work some boobs into it. And not McCarthy's.

Bum has not been very active here of late

Dom,Mike,and Ted walk into Murphys office.

Murphy says Dan, Mark and Ed you are all fired. As Ted and Mike walk out the door half the of NFL owners are there waiting to hire them. Green Bay starts rebuilding it staff by hiring McMillian.

The Packer may not resign Capers or perhaps make him Defensive Coach emriate after the season. If they do let him go they will promote from within. The Packers are built around Doms system they may just think they need someone with more energy.to run it.