NFC North now the best division for QB's?

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Yuck:

As far as Rodgers vs. Manning:
Seriously, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. You keep stating I claim Rodgers is neck and neck with Manning. Never once said that.
I posted earlier how Rodgers could be considered a top-tier QB after this season.....which is very possible. I also stated Rodgers could be close to Manning. Once again close and even are not the same thing.

I will skip with the name calling and question your comprehension. Yes, you say could. I say he couldn't. That's it. Two years (with any numbers) isn't enough to put him Manning's class (which is top tier) or close to it (or Brady's for that matter). That has been my position from the get go. Four years at last years production? Maybe. But he will need a MVP and/or some playoff wins.

Ummm....in multiple posts you stated that I said Manning and Rodgers were even....unless you've edited your previous posts.

So....you're saying top tier is 1 or 2 guys tops? So where does Brees fit, because you mentioned him earlier?

Top tier is the top 4-5 QB's in the league.
If Rodgers throws for 4000+ yds, 30+ Td's leads the Pack to 10+ wins in 09', you're saying he isn't one of the top 4-5 QB's in the game?
If you're answer is "No he is not." then just state that, and this discussion is through. No point in trying to get the blind to see at that stage.

Maybe we can get Lasic scheduled?

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

Two years (with any numbers) isn't enough to put him Manning's class

Unless of course Rodgers happens to win the Super Bowl this season

Nope. Multiple MVPs and/or Super Bowl wins/multiple playoff wins puts him there.

Under those criteria, Dan Marino wasn't an elite QB. One MVP and no SB's. Same with Jim Kelly. Even though both are in the HOF. Ridiculous.

elite =

My personal grading system (note that I'm no "Dutch") is some combo of longevity stats, awards and playoff wins.

Top Tier:
Manning
Brady
Brees

Next Tier:
Warner (maybe in the top tier but too much of a lightning rod debate so I'll put him here)
McNabb
Rivers
Big Ben
Romo

Wild Card Tier (Note, I realize some of these guys are more than likely going to be much better than some of the others. However, some have the stats, some have more experience, some have playoff wins. I would expect two for sure to move to the next level after next season. Works in progress.):
Eli
Ryan
ARodg
Cutler
Cassel
Schaub
Hass

Guys I could see being in the wild card tier that are open to debate: Jake the Snake, Flacco and Collins.

Now excuse me, SportingNews.com is emailing me to write their next NFL QB column...

So Warner is obviously in Payton's class though under the CB criteria?

So Brees makes the "elite" class w/o the MVP and Super Bowl rings/appearances?

And Jake the Snake isn't even playing. Chripes all mighty. And Collins....Sheesh.... were you hatch on a fence post?

Plenty to argue here, but Eli, a Super Bowl Champ, is a Wild Card - and Romo, a playoff wanna-be is next tier?? OK...

And Plummer isn't even in the league!
(As TD mentioned)

How does Brees qualify as elite??? What has he won that puts him up there???

Your choices are arbitrary, and I wouldn't be surprised if you just pulled them off of someone elses list that you found somewhere.

In addition, the way I read this Rodgers would definitely be in the elite group if he puts up the kind of stats in 2009 that I posted earlier.

Edit: Gotta love posters who edit their mistakes after they've been seen in the hopes that no one sees them.

jake delhomme

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
My personal grading system (note that I'm no "Dutch") is some combo of longevity stats, awards and playoff wins.

Top Tier:
Manning
Brady
Brees

Next Tier:
Warner (maybe in the top tier but too much of a lightning rod debate so I'll put him here)
McNabb
Rivers
Big Ben
Romo

Wild Card Tier (Note, I realize some of these guys are more than likely going to be much better than some of the others. However, some have the stats, some have more experience, some have playoff wins. I would expect two for sure to move to the next level after next season. Works in progress.):
Eli
Ryan
ARodg
Cutler
Cassel
Schaub
Hass

Guys I could see being in the wild card tier that are open to debate: Jake the Snake, Flacco and Collins.

Now excuse me, SportingNews.com is emailing me to write their next NFL QB column...

What, no Favre?

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
Under those criteria, Dan Marino wasn't an elite QB. One MVP and no SB's. Same with Jim Kelly. Even though both are in the HOF. Ridiculous.

Dan Fouts and Fran Tarkenton were not elite, either.

Jake The Snake Delhomme?

The Immortal Sage Rosenfels is to be feared, though.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Next Tier:
Warner (maybe in the top tier but too much of a lightning rod debate so I'll put him here)
McNabb
Rivers
Big Ben
Romo

Romo? Zero playoff wins.

Who is that? (Picture at the end of sheet 5)

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Yuck:
How does Brees qualify as elite??? What has he won that puts him up there???

Your choices are arbitrary, and I wouldn't be surprised if you just pulled them off of someone elses list that you found somewhere.

In addition, the way I read this Rodgers would definitely be in the elite group if he puts up the kind of stats in 2009 that I posted earlier.

Edit: Gotta love posters who edit their mistakes after they've been seen in the hopes that no one sees them.

Brees: Stats, longevity, playoff wins. Definitely debatable if he is the top group or the next tier.

My choices are my personal ratings (as I noted). I did look at list so I wouldn't forget someone but it was yahoosports.com 2008 stats.

Rodgers is one I expect to move into the next tier after next season but he wouldn't have the longevity to make the top tier yet according to my crack ratings system.

Yes, I did edit it a few moments after posting. I think I moved Collins down to the debatable group with Jake D and Flacco.

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:
What, no Favre?

You will have to wait until he signs to find out where he fits. I know, the anticipation overwhelming...

quote:

Edit: Gotta love posters who edit their mistakes after they've been seen in the hopes that no one sees them.

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
Under those criteria, Dan Marino wasn't an elite QB. One MVP and no SB's. Same with Jim Kelly. Even though both are in the HOF. Ridiculous.

Multiple playoffs wins puts you up there. Maybe that wasn't obvious. Thanks for catching that. My QB preview was about to go to press...

quote:

Originally posted by Ghost of Lambeau:
Who is that? (Picture at the end of sheet 5)

The legendary Super Bowl winner Dilfer I believe. He fits under elite according to .

quote:

or Super Bowl wins/multiple playoff wins puts him there.

Dilfer then right Where does the immortal Dave Krieg fit?

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
Under those criteria, Dan Marino wasn't an elite QB. One MVP and no SB's. Same with Jim Kelly. Even though both are in the HOF. Ridiculous.

Multiple playoffs wins puts you up there. Maybe that wasn't obvious. Thanks for catching that. My QB preview was about to go to press...

I knew I should've quoted your original post, as you like to sneak in edits when you're getting your ass handed to you. So no, it wasn't obvious, since it wasn't there.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

Two years (with any numbers) isn't enough to put him Manning's class

Unless of course Rodgers happens to win the Super Bowl this season

Nope. Multiple MVPs and/or Super Bowl wins puts him there.

quote:

Originally posted by PackerHawk:

Jake The Snake Delhomme?

In reality, there are only two legitimate snakes.

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

Two years (with any numbers) isn't enough to put him Manning's class

Unless of course Rodgers happens to win the Super Bowl this season

Nope. Multiple MVPs and/or Super Bowl wins puts him there.

Yeah, I left that out there. A person would get a couple of playoff wins on the way to the Super Bowl however.

Regardless, if you will allow an edit to my criteria, multiple playoffs wins are as good as a Super Bowl win to get yourself into the elite category...along with the other stuff I mentioned.

I think if you read through all this it is pretty obvious what I consider it takes to be in the elite category. However, you will be able to find holes from time to time (like above) when I left out multiple playoff wins.

My personal grading system (note that I'm no "Dutch") is some combo of longevity stats, awards and playoff wins.

Wait, I guess that was in my original criteria.

jeeees, I can't wait for you to list yer top soccer players

This thread is quickly becoming a classic.

No thread is a classic without a unicorn.

When has Jake Delhomme ever been called "Jake the Snake"? That nickname doesn't even fit him... he's slow as pond water and has no moves at all. They called Plumemr that because he could actually run and was kind of shifty.

In terms of measurables, Rodgers is better than Manning. He's more mobile and his arm is stronger. He's just as smart and he commands his offense just as well. In terms of what he's proven, Rodgers isn't even sniffing Manning's class. Mannings a SB champ, a 3 time MVP, and overall a consistent winner through and through. Rodgers has won 6 games. If Aaron stays healthy and is teamed with McCarthy for 11 years like Manning has been with Tom Moore, there's no doubt in my mind he could surpass Manning in every way.

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:
When has Jake Delhomme ever been called "Jake the Snake"? That nickname doesn't even fit him... he's slow as pond water and has no moves at all. They called Plumemr that because he could actually run and was kind of shifty.

In terms of measurables, Rodgers is better than Manning. He's more mobile and his arm is stronger. He's just as smart and he commands his offense just as well. In terms of what he's proven, Rodgers isn't even sniffing Manning's class. Mannings a SB champ, a 3 time MVP, and overall a consistent winner through and through. Rodgers has won 6 games. If Aaron stays healthy and is teamed with McCarthy for 11 years like Manning has been with Tom Moore, there's no doubt in my mind he could surpass Manning in every way.

Delhomme’s arm is pain-free and strong. Smith’s punch, which resulted in a two-game suspension, never came close to splitting the locker room. Maybe that is why, as they prepared to play the Buccaneers in one of their biggest regular-season games in five years, Smith was relaxed enough to wear a “Jake the Snake” T-shirt that featured a likeness of Delhomme dressed in black bikini bottoms and a cut-off Panthers jersey.

Would you think differently of me if I owned one of these t-shirts as well?

Anyway, good to know someone also realizes ARodg ain't sniffing Manning's class yet. But you do realize, if what you are predicting comes true Aaron Rodgers will be at the very least one of the top ten QBs of all time. Way to lofty of a prediction for this fowl after one season.

But I will admit, it COULD happen.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Delhomme’s arm is pain-free and strong. Smith’s punch, which resulted in a two-game suspension, never came close to splitting the locker room. Maybe that is why, as they prepared to play the Buccaneers in one of their biggest regular-season games in five years, Smith was relaxed enough to wear a “Jake the Snake” T-shirt that featured a likeness of Delhomme dressed in black bikini bottoms and a cut-off Panthers jersey.

Oh right, how stupid of me for not knowing this....

quote:

Anyway, good to know someone also realizes ARodg ain't sniffing Manning's class yet. But you do realize, if what you are predicting comes true Aaron Rodgers will be at the very least one of the top ten QBs of all time. Way to lofty of a prediction for this fowl after one season.

But I will admit, it COULD happen.

Rodgers played just as well, sometimes better than Manning this past season. He hasn't accomplished what Manning has, but he's every bit as good.

Yeah I realize exactly what I posted. Put any good QB in a good system with a great OC and plenty of talent around him for 10 years and he'll accomplish some things.

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:

Rodgers played just as well, sometimes better than Manning this past season. He hasn't accomplished what Manning has, but he's every bit as good.

Yeah I realize exactly what I posted. Put any good QB in a good system with a great OC and plenty of talent around him for 10 years and he'll accomplish some things.

Alright ARodg, there you go...let's play!

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
My personal grading system (note that I'm no "Dutch") is some combo of longevity stats, awards and playoff wins.

Wait, I guess that was in my original criteria.

What combo of longevity, stats, awards and playoff wins? If a guy plays for a long time and has pretty good stats but no playoff wins or awards, does he get put in a higher tier than a guy that didn't play very long, had one season of amazing stats (and was below average the rest of the time), won some playoff games and an MVP. How about if a guy played for like 50 years won one Super Bowl and sucked for the other 49 years? What if a guy plays 5 years wins four Super Bowls, but no awards and has decent stats? Sounds like you've got a very well thought out, almost fool proof system there. Could you please break down the criteria a bit more, though?

quote:

Originally posted by Stinkfinger:

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
My personal grading system (note that I'm no "Dutch") is some combo of longevity stats, awards and playoff wins.

Wait, I guess that was in my original criteria.

What combo of longevity, stats, awards and playoff wins?

Whatever combo fits to support his weak argument is my guess.

Years in the league + playoffs wins x QB rating divided by awards. In case of a tie, add in number of games played with facial hair. An obvious benefit to guys like ARodg (at times) and Dan Fouts:

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:
Whatever combo fits to support his weak argument is my guess.

We have a winner!!

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Yes, I did edit it a few moments after posting.

I have a feeling you do that a lot, man. You've been busted before. Jim Leonhard ring a bell?

Weak.

I forgot about the realignment in 2002. I made a mistake. So ****ing sue me. I've never been able to justify putting an Indianapolis team in the AFC "south"

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:
When has Jake Delhomme ever been called "Jake the Snake"? That nickname doesn't even fit him... he's slow as pond water and has no moves at all. They called Plumemr that because he could actually run and was kind of shifty.

Delhomme’s arm is pain-free and strong. Smith’s punch, which resulted in a two-game suspension, never came close to splitting the locker room. Maybe that is why, as they prepared to play the Buccaneers in one of their biggest regular-season games in five years, Smith was relaxed enough to wear a “Jake the Snake” T-shirt that featured a likeness of Delhomme dressed in black bikini bottoms and a cut-off Panthers jersey.

How many hours of internet searching did it take you find the one instance where Jake Delhomme was called Jake-the Snake?

From the Dope Sheet : Aaron Rodgers

FIRST YEAR UNDER CENTER

- Quarterback Aaron Rodgers isn't one to talk about stats or milestones, but the fourth-year pro exceeded nearly all expectations in his first season under center.

- He finished the season with 4,038 passing yards, becoming only the second quarterback in NFL history to surpass 4,000 yards in the same season in which he made his first career start. Kurt Warner (4,353) was the first to accomplish the feat in 1999.

- Rodgers is the fourth player in club history to surpass the 4,000-yard mark, joining Lynn Dickey (1), Brett Favre (5) and Don Majkowski (1).

- Four times Rodgers went over 300 yards passing. He also tossed three touchdown passes in four games.

- Rodgers' 28 touchdown passes were tops among first-year starters and marked the first time since Daunte Culpepper (33) in 2000 that a first-year starter threw for 25-plus touchdowns.

- The California product took care of the ball as well, throwing 13 interceptions in 536 attempts, 2.42% of his throws. It was the lowest percentage by a Packers quarterback in over a decade (Favre, 1996, 2.39%).

- And perhaps most importantly in Green Bay, Rodgers started all 16 games in 2008, fighting through a serious shoulder injury suffered in Week 4 at Tampa that kept him out of practice for one month.

- Proving he is among the NFL's top quarterbacks will take years of consistent play, but there is no doubt the 25-year-old Rodgers is off to a great start.

A look at where his 2008 totals ranked in the NFL:

Statistic: 2008 total (NFL Rank)
Passing Yards: 4,038 (4)
Completions: 341 (7)
Completion %: 65.6 (10)
Touchdowns: 28 (4)
QB Rating: 93.8 (6)
20-plus yd. completions: 48 (5T)
40-plus yd. completions: 16 (1) WOW !
Third-down QB rating: 105.8 (3)
First downs passing: 182 (9T)
.
.


Elias Stats of the Week

The Packers have scored in the fourth quarter in each of their last 16 regular-season games, the longest current streak for any team in the NFL..
.
.
It's Green Bay's longest streak since the team scored in 16 consecutive fourth quarters from Oct. 12, 1997 to Oct. 15, 1998.
.
.
Packers scored more points in the 4th quarter than any other quarter in 2008, with 150
.
.
IF the Packers scored as many points in the first 3 quarters as they did in the 4th, they would have put up 600 points in 2009, shattering the NFL record for points scored in a season.