Official Packers 2025 Off-Season Thread

@50k Club posted:

Zadarius Smith, David Bakhtiari, now Jaire Alexander.  Not sure what it is where their injuries made both parties disgruntled, and the players spoke out against the Packers publicly.  Everything I've read is that Packers are ultra-conservative with player injuries.

I wouldn't say that in Bak's case it left both parties disgruntled. In all these cases we don't know what our medical staff recommended, what the players decided to do, how they attacked their rehab, etc.

@Chongo posted:

It's the world according to a fanboy who grew up playing Madden and thinks he knows as much as an actual coach.

You referring to Bukowski or Herschel?

Losing Alexander would suck.  Not sure if he’s trying to pull a Jimmy Butler but that CB group isn’t the same without him.  Stokes was awful this year and Nixon should not see the field unless he’s your 5th or 6th emergency player.  

@Tschmack posted:

Losing Alexander would suck.  Not sure if he’s trying to pull a Jimmy Butler but that CB group isn’t the same without him.  Stokes was awful this year and Nixon should not see the field unless he’s your 5th or 6th emergency player.  

But how many games does he play, let alone playing when not healthy. He's a headache.

Not sure that list is as big a dunk as they think.  The only other team on that list that got anywhere afterwards was the LAR, in large part due to McVay.  No other team went anywhere.  To be a pessimist, it's almost like having the youngest team guarantees you won't win the SB.

Youth is a nice star decal on your helmet but you gotta do more with it.  The investment has to pay off.

@Tschmack posted:

Losing Alexander would suck.  Not sure if he’s trying to pull a Jimmy Butler but that CB group isn’t the same without him.  Stokes was awful this year and Nixon should not see the field unless he’s your 5th or 6th emergency player.  

He definitely makes us better, but has only played in 33 of our last 77 games. If we keep him next year he will cost us 19 million in cap space over the next two seasons. So the question should be "would you sign him for one year at 19 million".?. In addition to the injury history, there is the question of if he wants to be here. Another factor is that while good, he hasn't been an elite CB since injuring his shoulder in 2020.

LA Rams have starting CB’s drafted in the 3rd round, 6th round and UDFA. And they shut down Jefferson & Addison last week because they unleashed a holy hell pass rush on Darnold and got in his head early.
Every great coach in the history of forever will tell you you want your best, most disruptive players close to the football when it’s snapped. OL. DL. QB. LB. RB.
Football always has been and always will be won by teams that are best inside out. You pay a guy like Alexander if you can’t rush the passer.

@PackLandVA posted:

Yes, none of those teams went on to win an Owl within the next couple years.  Rams did after getting a Vet QB 6 years later.   Was I supposed to notice something else?  

Being ultra young means your drafts sucked and don’t have guys on 2nd or 3rd contracts.

Yu were supposed to notice that the Packers were the only team who made the playoffs 2 years in a row with the youngest team.   But the Negative Nellies only see what didn't happen.

@ammo posted:

Yu were supposed to notice that the Packers were the only team who made the playoffs 2 years in a row with the youngest team.   But the Negative Nellies only see what didn't happen.

Is there a trophy for that?

@BrainDed posted:

Being ultra young means your drafts sucked and don’t have guys on 2nd or 3rd contracts.

There is no data to support the first half of this sentence, and 3rd contracts have been rare in the NFL for the past 20 years.

As of September 2024, the average age of NFL teams ranged from 24.9 years for the Packers to 27.3 years for the Dolphins.

Buccaneers: The second youngest team with an average age of 25.4 years

Rams: The third youngest team with an average age of 25.5 years

Chiefs: The fourth youngest team with an average age of 25.4 years

So, the 4 youngest teams (by age) were all playoff teams in 2024.

@ammo posted:

Since 2017 …

2 of the teams above have played in multiple Super Bowls, winning one and losing one.

2 of the teams above have made multiple trades FOR players in attempts to improve their rosters.

2 of the teams above have gone the dreaded (for certain Packer fans) all-in route in their attempts to compete for Super Bowls.

1 team above has nearly exclusively traded AWAY players to accumulate more draft picks in order to always remain “competitive.”

And this season, just 1 team above finished 3rd in its division and allowed its fans to begin thinking about the 2025 draft after a quick and non-competitive first round playoff exit. Fans of the other 2 teams have to watch them play again tomorrow.

The “best” Packer fans obviously understand that winning the youngest team in the NFL “award” 2 years running is a huge, huge accomplishment.

It is only the bad Packer fans who notice that teams like Philly & the LA Rams have not followed the GB way of roster building during what is now going on 15 years since the Pack’s last SB appearance.

@SteveLuke posted:

The “best” Packer fans obviously understand that winning the youngest team in the NFL “award” 2 years running is a huge, huge accomplishment.

Making an early run at the DSOBOTB title?

@BrainDed posted:

Yes, none of those teams went on to win an Owl within the next couple years.  Rams did after getting a Vet QB 6 years later.  Was I supposed to notice something else?  

Being ultra young means your drafts sucked and don’t have guys on 2nd or 3rd contracts.

I just found it interesting. Nothing more, nothing less.

Winning the Super Bowl is the only thing that matters, right? Unless winning or making the SB helps support your argument.

Being a SB participant is the only thing that matters. Unless making the Conference finals supports your arguement.

Being a SB participant or making the Conference Finals are the only things that matter. Unless winning the Division supports your arguement.

Being a SB participant, making the Conference Finals, or winning the Division are the only things that matter. Unless just making the playoffs supports your arguement.

Being a SB participant, or making the Conference Finals, or winning the Division, or making the playoffs are the only things that matter.  beating your Division rivals supports the arguement.

Moving the goal posts is the only thing that matters if it supports your argument.

@H5 posted:

You referring to Bukowski or Herschel?

This is the only video game Herschel plays

I would have guessed this:

Focusing on being the youngest team in the league as a reason for hope is something that fans of bad teams might cling to.  However, I would say it isn't quite the same for the Packers.  It's not nothing that they were the only team on that list that had a winning record and went to the playoffs.  That said, it only matters if those young players take the next step.  It would stand to reason that being the youngest team in the league and making the playoffs/have a winning record is way better than being a much older team and not accomplishing either.  

@H5 posted:

Making an early run at the DSOBOTB title?

Titles can only change hands upon death...

X4 Bylaws, Article 12, Section 7

So you're saying there's a chance.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Is there a trophy for that?

Yeppers. Same one the Vikings have.

@H5 posted:

So you're saying there's a chance.

Given the age of some of the title holders...YES!

My humble opinions.

Trade Alexander

The good thing is he's still relatively young and some team will give up a lot for him, hoping he's over his injuries.  We've been hoping that for two years.  Yes, he's elite, but he's a half-time player.  You can't assume he's going to be over his injuries, you have to assume he's not.  Too much money to pay for someone who's rarely available.

Try to keep Josh Meyers

He's an UFA, and he's been serviceable to good, Love trusts him, but he's kind of a c+ player.  If he doesn't accept a reasonable deal, let him go.

Try to Keep Isaiah McDuffie

Good veteran depth.  Make a reasonable offer, if he doesn't accept, bye bye.

Pay Eric Stokes

He's our best reliable corner right now, and a vet.  He's not going to command much, so he can be had for a reasonable rate.  He showed a ton of promise his rookie year, maybe he can progress next year.

Pay Eric Wilson

Very competent veteran depth.  Not a superstar, so he shouldn't cost much.

Try to Keep TJ Slaton

Good veteran depth, shows up in spurts.  If he wants more than a reasonable offer, let him go.  He's not going to get any better at this point.

Pay Brandon McManus

No brainer.

Try to Keep Quay Walker

Almost every linebacker on the Packers is better than him, but he's a decent vet.  Fast as hell, but too dumb to make much of an impact.

Try to Keep Corey Ballentine

Decent veteran depth.  If he doesn't take a reasonable offer, let him go.

Let Andre Dillard Go

Andre who?

Try to Keep Robert Rochelle

Good ST player, depth at corner.  If he doesn't take a fair deal, let him go.

Let AJ Dillon Go

Good guy, just not the power back we thought he would be, and the RB room is too crowded with better runners.

Let Tyler Davis Go

Never did much.

Whether through draft or free agency, WR and CB are the top two priorities.  Then pass rusher.  If I were Gutey, I'd look to free agency for all three of those positions first.  Especially for CB and DE.  Gutey sucks at drafting defense.

Fill in depth through the draft. 

Agree with most of that, other than Stokes. He did play better when we were playing mostly zone, but Valentine and Nixon are better in man coverage. I think that Gute is going to make a real effort to get top FAs at WR and Edge rusher. My "best case scenario" would be Mack & Davante ..... think of what they would add!

That reads like every other teams fans list. "If he comes cheap. If he comes reasonable"  They almost never do.

Viking fans. "  Re-sign Darnold if he comes cheap" Yeah Right!

"Whether through draft or free agency, WR and CB are the top two priorities.  Then pass rusher.  If I were Gutey, I'd look to free agency for all three of those positions first.  Especially for CB and DE.  Gutey sucks at drafting defense."

I think Pass Rusher is a top priority for the Packers. Yes, we also need a speedy WR and a CB. Another LB would be good, too. We need to look at finding Kenny Clark's replacement, at some point. In the meantime whatever DL guy we get, can spell Slaton, as well. Take the best ones available, of these, in the Draft and try to find solid players in FA, to add depth.

@FLPACKER posted:

Agree with most of that, other than Stokes. He did play better when we were playing mostly zone, but Valentine and Nixon are better in man coverage. I think that Gute is going to make a real effort to get top FAs at WR and Edge rusher. My "best case scenario" would be Mack & Davante ..... think of what they would add!

How much does Mack have left at 33?  Looks like outside a big year in 23 he's been a single digit sack guy for a while.  I know sacks don't tell the whole story but of the couple games I watched LAC, he didn't seem to be that disruptive. 

Anyone else watch him this year?

Get a few of these old guys and  pick one of the following ( fact, excuse, get out of jail free card ) of being the youngest team in the league goes out the window.

Then again being old and slow could take its place

@mrtundra posted:

"Whether through draft or free agency, WR and CB are the top two priorities.  Then pass rusher.  If I were Gutey, I'd look to free agency for all three of those positions first.  Especially for CB and DE.  Gutey sucks at drafting defense."

I think Pass Rusher is a top priority for the Packers. Yes, we also need a speedy WR and a CB. Another LB would be good, too. We need to look at finding Kenny Clark's replacement, at some point. In the meantime whatever DL guy we get, can spell Slaton, as well. Take the best ones available, of these, in the Draft and try to find solid players in FA, to add depth.

100 percent agree on pass rush. Anyone watching the playoffs so far can see how much an effective rush and pressure on a QB can alter a game. Watch tape and see how Darnold and Goff performed under pressure.  The Giants front 7 got them two Super Bowls despite having an otherwise average team.

@Harry Manback posted:

My humble opinions.

Trade Alexander

You don't trade good players at the bottom of their value, especially at positions of weakness, unless you have no other choice, and if they're in that position, it should be after June 1st. His trade value is close to nil as ever right now as only the Packers know his medical situation.

Try to keep Josh Meyers

That's probably fine.

Try to Keep Isaiah McDuffie

He's JAG through-and-through, cheap or get out.

Pay Eric Stokes

No, just no. He's Kevin King with worse man coverage skills. Let some zone team pay for his potential going forward.

Try to Keep TJ Slaton

He's their only true "hog" so yeah.

Pay Brandon McManus

Yep.

Try to Keep Quay Walker

They don't need to try, he's under contract for at least one more year, with a fifth-year option if they want it.

Try to Keep Corey Ballentine

Meh. Time to up the quality at the position. Rochelle is a better special teams guy and probably even cheaper.

Let Andre Dillard Go

Not exactly a controversial take. He's was a reclamation flier pick up.

Try to Keep Robert Rochelle

Cheap and special teams, hopefully doesn't see actual time at corner in meaningful games.

Let AJ Dillon Go

He'll likely be a minimum "prove it" contract, so he could be a camp body, at worst.

Let Tyler Davis Go

See: Dillon

@RochNyFan posted:

100 percent agree on pass rush. Anyone watching the playoffs so far can see how much an effective rush and pressure on a QB can alter a game. Watch tape and see how Darnold and Goff performed under pressure.  The Giants front 7 got them two Super Bowls despite having an otherwise average team.

The question is will Gutekunst break tendency and go after a guy with real bend and burst even if he's smaller? Cooper seems his concession by having an off-ball linebacker who can also rush from the edge.

On the plus-side, their are a number of candidates this year that could probably do both:

James Pierce from TN, Jalon Walker from GA, Jihaad Campbell from Alabama, David Bailey from Stanford, Josiah Stewart from Michigan and maybe even Smael Mondon from Georgia or Jeffrey Bassa from Oregon. 

   I read thiis entire thread and agree w/ much that was written.  I also listened to the clip of Silverstein and Wood and felt they had a few good points as well; The change from Jones to  Jacobs was a bigger deal than we realized.  Teams played GB differently- just look at how much more dynamics  the Vikes were when 33 played.  I don't advocate that Jacobs should not have been signed but I agree w/ Silverstein that GB couldn't see how lining up in the I and running the tackle box damaged their former passing game.   Jacobs is not a nifty route runner and his elusiveness factor was not enough to force teams to respect him in the pass game.  Maybe Lloyd would have fixed that but we'll never know.

  The lack of a dependable receiver also really hurt- it has always baffled me how the fundamental aspect of being a receiver is catching the ball can be so problematic.  Silversteins comment about discipline rang true here.

  The FA shopping trip that we all are anxiously waiting on comes w/a cautionary note- Remember the Joe Johnson signing- The stars are aligned headlines on local media and the disturbing reality of an aging vet signing for a big payday in a place he didn't want to be - give me pause.  Do I fantasize about Maxx Crosby (not a FA but trade speculation has been high) and do I absolutley believe he would be a balls to the wall type of guy- but it aint gonna happen and so I'm hoping in FA to find a scheme fit talent that will improve the roster.  Could be anybody and if your roster is solid- the scrap heap Desmond Howard had as much to do w/ that 96 Superbowl title as Reggie White.

So I guess long story short for me I am hoping a very introspective LaFluer figures out how to incorporate Jacobs into the forermly  deep strike offense and its  previous production levels or get a dynamic running mate for Jacobs- figure out the second TE, 8 deep Oline and switch to a power running attack.

After reading all the above, it seems that for a team that most of us thought was pretty good and played teams we thought were pretty good to a standstill needs a lot.  

Green and Gold glasses may need to be replaced with clear lenses.

@DH13 posted:

How much does Mack have left at 33?  Looks like outside a big year in 23 he's been a single digit sack guy for a while.  I know sacks don't tell the whole story but of the couple games I watched LAC, he didn't seem to be that disruptive.

Anyone else watch him this year?

I know that PFF isn't everything , but they had him as their 5th highest rated edge player in the entire league this year.

@Harry Manback posted:

My humble opinions.

Trade Alexander

His trade value is pretty much garbage right now. At best, it's like a 6th that maybe turns to a 5th. However, his cap number gets worse in 2026 then dumping him now. So I wouldn't rule it out, especially if he's not on board with being a Packer in 2025 or they feel he is a locker room cancer here.

Try to keep Josh Meyers

They will likely low ball offer him, they are not paying big money for him and they should not. He's an average C and if the goal is to win a SB, you don't keep mediocre for a starter.

Try to Keep Isaiah McDuffie

Again, not an ideal player for playing as many snaps as he did. Upgrade.

Pay Eric Stokes

He's not the best CB on this team, that's Valentine. Then Nixon. See Josh Myers. The goal, the "urgency" per Gute is to win championships NOW. This is a deep draft for CB's and the Packers have money in FA. They need a significant rehaul at this position the same way Gute re-made the TE rom.

Pay Eric Wilson

Agree.

Try to Keep TJ Slaton

Agree

Pay Brandon McManus

Agree.

Try to Keep Quay Walker

There is not enough there to pick up his 5th year option, I hope Gute learned this lesson when he overpaid Savage. For the love of God, do not do it again.

Try to Keep Corey Ballentine

Agree.

Let Andre Dillard Go

Agree.

Try to Keep Robert Rochelle

Good ST player, depth at corner.  If he doesn't take a fair deal, let him go.

Let AJ Dillon Go

Agree.

Let Tyler Davis Go

Agree.

The thing to remember is Gute wants to compete for a SB now. You don't maintain the course by keeping Josh Myers, Eric Stokes, McDuffie, etc if that's the goal. You know who they are and where their ceilings are.

Move on. Upgrade. Spend some decent cash in FA. And remake/retool positions like CB however you can.

@packerboi posted:

The thing to remember is Gute wants to compete for a SB now. You don't maintain the course by keeping Josh Myers, Eric Stokes, McDuffie, etc if that's the goal. You know who they are and where their ceilings are.

Move on. Upgrade. Spend some decent cash in FA. And remake/retool positions like CB however you can.

While I agree with you mostly, Myers I think makes sense to bring back. You're not going to draft or sign a C that completely changes your OL. Myers is solid...not great, but solid.

The only option I see them doing is moving either Tom or Jenkins to C if they don't re-sign Myers. But maybe that's been the plan all along.

Everyone else they should upgrade.

2025 will be the year to be unburdened by what has been

@Chongo posted:

While I agree with you mostly, Myers I think makes sense to bring back. You're not going to draft or sign a C that completely changes your OL. Myers is solid...not great, but solid.

The only option I see them doing is moving either Tom or Jenkins to C if they don't re-sign Myers. But maybe that's been the plan all along.

Everyone else they should upgrade.

I fully get PFF is not the be all and end all for reflecting how good/bad a player truly is but for grades for Myers:

Overall Grade: 55.3. Which is good for 49th out of 64 and is considered below average.

Pass blocking grade: 63.4. That is 37th out of 64. above average and isn't bad, but hardly considered good or elite.

Run blocking grade: 52.2. That's 54th out of 64. That is considered poor. Especially relevant for a team that wants to run the ball with Jacobs/Lloyd in 25

When I watch former OL players like Mike Wahle do their 22 film review, there's just not much to be impressed with Myers according to him and also Bulaga who know far more than I ever will.

Now, that's not to say Myers isn't a great locker room presence and MLF has praised him for his recognition of defensive schemes and getting guys lined up correctly. A rookie is unlikely to do that so I do get it from that standpoint the desire to keep him.

I just hope if Gute is going to offer him a 2nd contract that it is representative of his play. Which means you aren't offering him more than middle of the road deal with not much guaranteed.

Another thing to like about Mack & Adams is that they wouldn't be seeking long term contracts. Sign them for 2 years and develop guys behind them. I like this approach better than developing all of the guys at the same time. Adams would instantly be the number 1 WR and Mack the number one edge.

@FLPACKER posted:

I know that PFF isn't everything , but they had him as their 5th highest rated edge player in the entire league this year.

Not what I saw in the limited amount of games I watched.  He also plays with Bosa on the other end.  He'll be 34 this coming season.

I think Mack would be a very situational, part-time pass rusher similar to Von Miller is with the Bills. A dude who you save for very specific plays in hopes of keeping him fresh, especially come playoff time.

What's interesting is Mack's teammate, Joey Bosa, may very well be a cap causality for the Chargers. He's due 25mil and it's highly unlikely they will pay that.

He's had trouble staying healthy but for the right price, Gute might take a flyer. Bosa's still just 29

@packerboi posted:

I just hope if Gute is going to offer him a 2nd contract that it is representative of his play. Which means you aren't offering him more than middle of the road deal with not much guaranteed.

Fair...but I don't think Gutey reads PFF

I get what you're saying...not a huge fan of Myers myself, but I don't think he's as horrendous as PFF says he is. He's not an elite C, but I don't think he will be paid as such. Gutey and Ballz will set a price max and won't go over that.

And maybe they think he's dog shit and won't re-sign him. Just saying, don't be surprised if they do.

Can’t fix every need in one year.  They may think are bigger needs than center.

I would agree.

@Chongo posted:

Fair...but I don't think Gutey reads PFF

I get what you're saying...not a huge fan of Myers myself, but I don't think he's as horrendous as PFF says he is. He's not an elite C, but I don't think he will be paid as such. Gutey and Ballz will set a price max and won't go over that.

And maybe they think he's dog shit and won't re-sign him. Just saying, don't be surprised if they do.

He's not bad enough to be the reason you lose games (look at what happened at tackle after Jenkins got hurt against the Eagles), but he's also not good enough to be a big reason you win games.

Like you said, if he comes back for a reasonable salary that's fine. He's never going to be a Pro Bowler, but his familiarity with Love and the blocking schemes probably makes him worth more to GB than anyone else.

I'm guessing someone will outbid the Packers though and that's fine.