Offseason hand wringing topic: Dervante death watch

There is no way TT is going to walk away from a second rounder who played a good amount of time on a bad wheel last year in the completely and totally inept Tom Clements grab bag of **** clown car offensive rodeo. 

And if they do send Adams down the road they're saying Abby and Janis get it and they're better of long term with those two? No thanks.

Adams does need to get his ass in camp and go to work. This is his prove it year. I think he's pretty much bulletproof in 2016 provided he doesn't show up at camp fat and lazy thinking he's got things locked up. If 2016 is a repeat of 2015 he'll be on the bench by week 3 watching Ty and Janis get his snaps. 

I don't think that's happening. I think he's going to have a productive year along the lines of 65 receptions, 900 yards, 5 TD's. 

Lots of speculation on injuries playing a role in his inability to get open, create separation, catch, etc.  Maybe with a full stable he would have sat out a few last year, but that wasn't an option.  

If he could get those yards per catch back up to what they were as a rookie, it would make a big difference.  I don't expect it to increase a whole lot more beyond that because I don't think that was ever the intended role for DA.  His job is and will be to get past the sticks and catch it.   

Year 3 for a wide receiver, we will find out, time will tell, he sucks on paper.  

Yeah, maybe he was carrying an injury through most of the season but we also saw too many instances of poor effort, losing his head and the dropsies. I can excuse performance resulting from injury but not the piss-poor attitude he exhibited most of the season.

IMO he and Janis! were Exhibits A of not having a dedicated WR coach to help them work through their problems. 

If the rest of the receiving contingent stays injury free and Cook brings the extra dimension to TE that we hope for then Adams can play as a complementary piece, not the #1 option on the outside. Facing lesser DB competition and less pressure should give him every opportunity for a bounce back of sorts. 

Jordy's return will be the #1 reason for Adams' bounce back.  Same goes for Cobb.  DA showed way too much ability as a rookie to think he somehow grew out of that.  Even so, unless he really breaks out and takes the #2 slot, I don't see him near 1000, but maybe in the 45 for 500yds and 5-7TD.  A healthy Monty and the forever on the precipice Janis could take touches from him too.

He needs to play for his NFL future this year, even if it may not be in Green Bay. Given the talent TT has been assembling, I think he'll be the odd man out if this year's rookie makes a splash.

He could show up with a bong stapled to his chin and would likely still make the team for the remainder of his contract.

They do that now?  Genius!

Adams is too talented to not be patient with. Seemed as though his issue was physical and mental, he was struggling because of his ankle and it killed his confidence. He has good veteran leadership around him, he's had time to heal, and now he has something to prove which can be a powerful weapon. I expect a major bounce back for him just like with Mason Crosby. 

 Thought the PFT speculation about his roster chances was pretty silly. Absent almost a complete regression TT won't give up this quickly on a second rounder that's flashed potential previously. Beside the injury issues, he was completely unprepared for the role he was thrust into last year and my guess is that he bounces back.

Does anyone think he will bounce back?

I generally think anyone with his talent should have the ability to bounce back but he needs to work on his headspace.  I think there's a few guys on offense who need to do the same.  Looks like Eddie has bought in and I'm hoping there is a general awareness and change of perspective for this team.   MM pulled the trigger on assistants and Tommy McStoogeDunce but that was some serious **** last year. 

The joking phrase of a team being the "worst 10-6 team"? Well, I saw it last year.  They were ****ing atrocious and it's a bit more than just rebounding from a bum ankle or a slump.  This offseason will need some ethos rebuilding and I don't know if Dervante has it in him.  

The other thing they need to consider is the post-Nelson WR corps.  DA still holds the biggest "potential" card of that group and I don't see a lot else other than Ty developing into anything formidable.  Janis and Abs can still get better but their ceilings aren't where you want a #1 and #2 to be in the future. 

Now that Adams is in year 3, I don’t think his second round draft status helps him anymore.  After 2 years and 3 offseasons, you kind of are what you are.  We’ve seen TT give 2^nd and 3^rd rounders more time but mostly due to injury (Neal and Lee come to mind) but not sure that applies to Adams.  If 6 WRs outperform Adams, I think he’s gone.   

Not that I think Jordy is going to retire anytime soon but if Adams doesn't take a serious leap this year I would put money on it you'll see some patented TT 2nd/3rd rounder picks on WR in next year's draft.  He is supposed to be the guy and I don't think anyone wants to wait around and see what happens when Jordy is gone.  

Hell, you know it's bad when TT signs a freakin' FA from another team!  If that doesn't have everyone running around in a panic I don't know what will.

The kid was killing it in camp until he got hurt.

If anyone thinks he was limited by injury during the year than that is also a viable excuse for any mental let downs. Compensating for the bad ankle can be a distraction.

He sprained his ankle in Week 2, then limped out of the team's Week 3 game, then was listed every week I think through week 8. 

He showed up on the injury report again later in the season with the ankle and a foot... then the knee injury in the WC game.

There were indications he was getting healthy down the stretch going 5 of 8 (recpts/trgt), 3 of 6, 4 of 6, then 4 of 4 when the knee happened.

I expect him to bounce back, big.

Last year was only his 2nd year. There was regression from the first year but the whole offense was wonky. Expect him to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

In general I'm hoping the whole offense has a come to Jeebus moment.  Adams just looked particularly bad and as to what Cuqui said he just looked plain soft at times.  I would also guess that MM and TT both got caught with their pants down seeing how much Cobb and the other receivers could be limited without a guy like Jordy over the top and Adams stinking the place up.  

I hope he freakin' destroys it this year but I also hope TT and MM don't hesitate to jettison him and others that didn't learn a damn lesson from last year.

Sometimes, too much is made after 1 good season.  

Sometimes, too much is made after 1 bad season.

I heard they should have jettisoned the GM and Coaching staff. That definitely would have fixed it and fixed it good.

I think also when a CB knows you're limited by an injury it gives them confidence to come up and challenge you with no fear. DA is a bigger WR and is more physical than smaller guys, but if an aggressive CB is all over you then it throws off the whole route and timing regardless of your style of play. That's what teams were doing to GB all year, no fear about challenging them at the line. A healthy Davante will be played different by CBs and if not then it will allow for more opportunities. 

If you're looking at this as glass is half full, a few points:

1.) From Jordy Nelson (demoted to 4th WR due to nagging knee injury/performance) to James Jones (high drop %) to Donald Driver (regressed), several  2nd year  WR's had lousy years in GB. IIRC it was Bad Bob who wrote an article last season highlighting how badly these WR's played in their 2nd years. And all bounced back.

2.) With the return of Nelson, it's an instant domino effect in that Adams will likely be paired against the 4th best CB with Nelson going against an opponents best CB, followed by Cobb, followed by Monty and then Adams. Of course this isn't set in stone but overall Adams should see a lesser talented DB going against him. Side note: Cobb will likely see less doubles as well.

3.) Speed kills and finally GB will see a return of it. Nelson, Janis!, and now Davis all will have speed that GB simply didn't have last year. So how defenses played GB will likely change after around games 4-5 after teams are getting their ass kicked getting beat deep by Rodgers. This will change from playing a lot of man (what we saw almost all of 2015)  to going back to zone coverage. That bodes quite well for Adams (and Cobb) as they can find soft spots in the zone and make plays.

4.) Look at his playoff game in Washington. I think he was finally healthy again and that was the Adams we saw in 2014. I hope this kid comes in to camp pissed off and on a mission. Either way, competition is going to be ridiculous at this position. GB should have a hell of a lot of really good options to put on the field.

packerboi posted:

2.) With the return of Nelson, it's an instant domino effect in that Adams will likely be paired against the 3rd 4th best CB with Nelson going against an opponents best CB, followed by Cobb, followed by Monty Adams and then Adams Monty. Of course this isn't set in stone but overall Adams should see a lesser talented DB going against him. Side note: Cobb will likely see less doubles as well.

All things health wise being equal, I'd put Adams ahead of Monty. Speaking of health and Monty... anyone see any updates on him post surgery?

Only thing I've seen in the past few months:

Ty Montgomery (ankle) will be limited in OTAs.

Montgomery hasn't had any setbacks from late-December surgery, but still isn't running. Coach Mike McCarthy doesn't expect Montgomery to be fully cleared until training camp. A 2015 third-round pick, Montgomery will fight for passing-game scraps behind Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb when he gets healthy. Apr 15 - 8:15 PM

Having a full time WR coach will help also. This "QB/WR Coach" was a bust of an idea IMO. I'm not sure what the reasoning was, maybe there was a reason Getsy couldn't/shouldn't have the WR Coach title last year, but I think McCarthy realized he didn't need to reinvent the wheel on that one. 

Grave Digger posted:

This "QB/WR Coach" was a bust of an idea IMO.  

I think it was a trickle down effect to an extent from the Clements debacle.

Clements failing as the Asst HC/Play caller impacted how much time he could help with the QBs, which impacted how much time AVP could work with the WRs.

The combined QB/WR was really dumb. I agree that couldn't help. As for Adams vs Monty in ranking (assuming Monty is able to be a full go at TC), I believe Monty will end up securing the #3 position. AR seemed to really like him as a rookie and I think MM sees him as a more talented version of Cobb.

Obviously, the entire TC awaits along with pre-season so we'll see.

Btw, does anyone expect a lot of Jordy in PS? I'm guessing Jordy will play very limited amounts. Especially with 5 games.

He will get just the right amount of work to be ready for WK01.  No more, no less.

I think Adams makes the team.  It will be interesting to see how many running backs we go with including the FB.  My guess only 3 since Cobb and Montgomery can play the position in an emergency and we keep one more WR.   I guess it's time to say goodbye to Kuhn.  He gave Green Bay some good years but it's Ripkowski's turn now.

Grave Digger posted:

Having a full time WR coach will help also. This "QB/WR Coach" was a bust of an idea IMO. I'm not sure what the reasoning was, maybe there was a reason Getsy couldn't/shouldn't have the WR Coach title last year, but I think McCarthy realized he didn't need to reinvent the wheel on that one. 

One of the other real head-scratchers from last year was how long Davante was left out there struggling.  He clearly was having problems but there appeared to be no attempt to help him or shake things up. Mike just kept saying, "Players need to win their 1-on-1's," which just wasn't happening.

We discussed it ad literal nauseum last year, and I think it is accurate to conclude we all just assumed Janis and/or Abby weren't getting it done in practice.  EXCEPT (and this was not discussed), after Janis finally got on the field at the end after Adams' second injury and played pretty well, reporters asked him about his big game. His answer was along the lines of, "I don't get many chances with AR throwing to me, so I have to take advantage of them," or words to that effect. The clear meaning I got from his statements was, he wasn't even given chances to try to prove himself in practice.

Obviously we don't know what all was going on last year, but the idea that Janis wasn't even getting reps with the first team in practice, given what was happening on the field on Sundays, was just shocking to me. This is a guy with the tools to dominate in this league, who with his speed could have altered how defenses were playing us. He should have had a tutor, and AR should have been working with him. Heck given the debacle that was the passing game, AR should have practically been going to his house.  

Instead, my impression was, the keys were just sort of tossed to a gimpy Adams and he was told to go ahead and figure things out and drive, that he was the starter no matter what. Not good.

I agree with Henry: this needs to be a wide-open camp battle at WR, with the starters only penciled in. I also agree that a WR coach, and the competition itself, should do a world of good for the whole group. TT saw what having no deep threat does to this offense, and he did his part by not inviting James Jones back, and by drafting Davis. Now it is everyone else's turn, and they need to earn it. And not have it just handed to them.

michiganjoe posted:

 Thought the PFT speculation about his roster chances was pretty silly. Absent almost a complete regression TT won't give up this quickly on a second rounder that's flashed potential previously. Beside the injury issues, he was completely unprepared for the role he was thrust into last year and my guess is that he bounces back.

It's so PFT to write an article about Adams chances of making the roster and not writing one about Corduroy's chances of making the Vikings roster after Rick traded 4 picks to get that 2013 failure in round 1. 

PFT is a closet Viking forum that hates GB. 

Florio is an admitted Vajeen fan.

Florio and his purple band of "keep Mike happy" zealots can go **** each other with spiked plungers. 

Its great how Green Bay keeps ****ing up PFT's hopes and Minny ****s all over PFTs dreams. 

MM is TOO SLOW to change often. Keeping Adams out there last year is a perfect example, as opposed to giving Abby and Janis a shot. WHICH they both made the most of against Arizona in the playoffs.

It's really not uncommon for the 5th or 6th WR to get zero reps with the starting QB. That much doesn't surprise me. I think some also discount the off field part of preparation, it's not just about whether or not they're getting it done on the practice field. I'm sure Janis is a hard worker, but going from Saginaw Valley St to the NFL, full of NFL concepts, is a big jump...especially with an offense that is known to be complex for WRs. If you can't show in meetings that you know what you're doing then why on earth would they put you in a game? Janis running a go route every play isn't an answer when you're talking about 50-70 plays in a game, that's not going to do anything except wear Janis out. That doesn't force the defense to do anything except dare you throw to Janis, which they did a few times and it didn't work. Adams got on the field because he knew what the hell he was doing more than Janis or Abby. His results weren't great, and it may be shocking, but he was a better option.

There were times when I felt Adams had no business on the field (injury), but the coaches had (apparently) decided that  was the best option. I also thought it crazy the team docs were clearing him to play, when it was obvious he was hobbled significantly. Whatever the case, he answered the bell every round until he couldn't. Pretty damned gritty IMHO.

DA set a high bar for himself as a rookie. I think he may have even over-achieved, although he was a 2nd round pick. The point is, I don't know if it's realistic to expect him to immediately resume that kind of performance
I do think he has that potential, and he should be mentally prepared; he has had plenty of time to study.

It's pretty obvious AR is an Adams fan. Adams better take full advantage of that golden ticket. That's a license to print money if you put in the work 

I saw lazy routes, no speed and bad hands.   The one thing he does do well, jump out of the gym, they didn't try to take advantage of.  

Hopefully it was was all due to injury, but I'm not counting on it.  

Grave Digger posted:

It's really not uncommon for the 5th or 6th WR to get zero reps with the starting QB. 

Well yeah, in a normal year. Last year he was the next man up, and the guy in front of him was failing, badly.

Grave Digger posted:

If you can't show in meetings that you know what you're doing then why on earth would they put you in a game? Janis running a go route every play isn't an answer when you're talking about 50-70 plays in a game, that's not going to do anything except wear Janis out. That doesn't force the defense to do anything except dare you throw to Janis, which they did a few times and it didn't work. Adams got on the field because he knew what the hell he was doing more than Janis or Abby. His results weren't great, and it may be shocking, but he was a better option.

But no he was not the better option, not in his condition. The results speak for themselves. When they finally did start Janis, the passing game and the offense as a whole did much better. Janis said it himself, he needed the reps with the first string, which he said he never got, not even in practice.

I agree Janis was not assignment sure, and AR and MM have zero tolerance for that. I get that.  It's just, game after game of Adams playing the way he was and Janis is stuck at the kiddie table, without even practice reps? That's a hard one to swallow. 

Anyway, last year was a bad combination of things: injuries, younger guys not being ready mentally and being under coached, a head coach and OC sticking with what wasn't working, a lack of a deep threat, phat Eddy, no Tight End to speak of, and probably more. It was a perfect storm of suck, one that I hope everyone learned from and we never see again.