Our defense?

The defense since the Super Bowl has lost Nick Collins, Cullen Jenkins, Desmond Bishop, and today, BJ Raji went out. They should be playing better than they are, yes, but that's a lot to lose up the middle.

Our ILB's are average right now. DJ Smith does some good things but let's face it he's no match to a healthy Desmond Bishop. AJ Hawk is playing with more passion and more energy but he's another guy where you know where his ceiling is.

McMillon and Heyward could end up being fine DB's down the road but right now you're asking them to replace Nick Collins and Al Harris. It's just not there right now.

Shields again, does some good things. Then takes bad angles and doesn't stay with his man like he does. If Luck doesn't miss his WIDE OPEN WR, that's a brutal TD on Shields in the 3rd quarter.

Nick Perry is getting better but here again it's putting a lot of pressure on a rookie and as of now, Walden's the better option opposite CMIII.

Lose Raji for any period of time and that's a big hole to fix.

By my count today, Neal had a sack, 2 knock downs, and a batted pass. All things considered he played well. But no way am I expecting him to fill in and not skip a beat should Raji be down for awhile.

Colston and Wayne have combined for 22 catches for 367 yards and 2 TDs the last 2 games.

The defense gave the ball back to the offense with 1:20 left in the 1st half up 21-3 at GB's 45 yard line. The offense went 3 and out for the 1st of what would be 3 consecutive 3 and outs carrying into the 3rd quarter and 4 out of the next 5 drives.

The D did it's job. The offense repeatedly crapped the bed when it had opportunities to bury the Colts and put this game out of reach.

Yeah, the Offense sucked too!!!! Still, I am getting tired of this D.

If the defense had done their job, the Colts wouldn't have scored the game winning TD on the last drive of the game. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by ChilliJon:
The defense gave the ball back to the offense with 1:20 left in the 1st half up 21-3 at GB's 45 yard line. The offense went 3 and out for the 1st of what would be 3 consecutive 3 and outs carrying into the 3rd quarter and 4 out of the next 5 drives.

The D did it's job. The offense repeatedly crapped the bed when it had opportunities to bury the Colts and put this game out of reach.

30 points is not doing your job

we have bodies at ilb. nothing more, nothing less.

losing nick collins is bigger than anyone has mentioned. he was the qb of the defense, not to mention an all-pro safety.

quote:

Originally posted by smu86:
losing nick collins is bigger than anyone has mentioned. he was the qb of the defense, not to mention an all-pro safety.

HUGE loss.

not comparing him to ed reed, but the ravens defense is not the same when he misses time. collins could read an offense. we don't have that now. woodson will always be more of a cb than safety.

quote:

Originally posted by beef:
we have bodies at ilb. nothing more, nothing less.

Yep. The D will never be more than average until they improve their ILB play. Gotta have good LB play to run the 3-4 D and Hawk/Smith have minimal athleticism

I don't think our defense is that bad. They blew it on the final drive, but they did the exact opposite thing last week against a much better offense.

They have some issues, no question. But i'd like to think it's fixable. This isn't last year's team, you can take that to mean what you want.

Some of you are overreacting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bubbleboy789:
I don't think our defense is that bad. They blew it on the final drive, but they did the exact opposite thing last week against a much better offense.

QUOTE]


We must be watching different games.....

(edit in response to BB789) colts ran 89 plays to the packers 61. problem was the offense not keeping the hammer down and putting the game away as early as the last possesion before halftime. prior to bensons injury rush pass was even split. 30 of the next 44 plays were passes. Green should have got more touches...heck just a couple dump offs/screens. BTW what the heck has happened to the packer WR slants?

No comparison between Smith & Hawk to ILBers on teams with top 10 defenses. The whole concept of Capers D is for the dlineman to tie up blockers for the LBers to make tackles....the defense showcases LBers////but they are not our best players, seems like the defense doesn't fit our personnel?

quote:

Originally posted by lambeausouth:
The defense since the Super Bowl has lost Nick Collins, Cullen Jenkins, Desmond Bishop, and today, BJ Raji went out. They should be playing better than they are, yes, but that's a lot to lose up the middle.

Its the same defense with a slightly better pass rush and less talent at linebacker with Bishop out. And a much less dynamic offense to hide its warts through the regular season.

Two rookie QB's. Two losses.

5 games into a season is not a time to can an assistant coach. That being said any defensive coach coming off of a season were the teams defense was the worst in the league should be on the hot seat. Injury should not be a factor over the long run, 2 or more seasons, injuries happen and coaches need to adjust. The Packers defense under Caper’s except for the Super Bowl year have been simply bad. If the defense keeps playing as it has for the rest of this this season isn’t it time to replace Capers?

The common theme I'm seeing here is that you all are blaming the players on the field, specifically ILB and safety. Is that a fair assessment?

Does the defensive coordinator accept any responsibility for the last year and a quarter? Wouldn't a coordinator make changes based on who his personnel is at the time?

I'm not trying to put all the blame on Dom Capers. I'm just wondering what's going on in the heads of McCarthy and Thompson.

too many blitzes today.

Did the Colts pick on Woodson today?
I begining to think he has lost more then just a step.

Capers - But I've felt all along that this defense will improve as the season goes on, as long as we can stay healthy.


He better be right...

When was the last time someone forced a fumble other than on a sack?

And I agree with him, this defense should get better. Last year it was kind of the walking dead, throw in the towel---lafter Collins was lost, it became clear there was nothing on the roster that gave any hope the defense could get better.

This year, we have young players on the d-line (Worthy, Daniels), LB (Perry) and secondary (McMillin, Hayward, House) that promise to be better in the second half of the season then now. That being said, there doesn't seem to be a "big play" difference maker among the group---and we still desperately need a pass rusher opposite CMIII.

What is concerning with Capers is that his career has followed a similar pattern(other than in Pitts. where he left after three years)....peak early in his tenure only to decline & never recover until he leaves.

http://www.pro-football-refere.../coaches/CapeDo0.htm

The defense is predicated on stopping the run and forcing turnovers. When the turnovers don't come it gets ugly quick.

The talent was atrocious last year. This year there's a lot of young pieces.

For today I have to give a lot of credit to Luck. I can't remember the last time a QB got away from Clay the way he did when Clay had him dead to rights. He also made some spectacular throws.

The thing that's unacceptable to me is that Reggie Wayne wasn't shaded by Tramon Williams on every single play. I think they really underestimated Wayne today. Shut him down and the Colts have almost no way to win.

and a btw, if Perry's sack is a penalty this isn't football anymore. I get it if you don't want shots to the head but there's damn near no place left to hit a QB that isn't a penalty. If his helmet happens to hit his shoulder too flippin bad for Luck.

The defense is real bad again this year. They are bleeding yards in the passing game. There is no pass rush and there is confusion in the secondary. Too many penalties.

I think it;s wonderful that the defense should improve as the season progresses. I just think it will be too little, too late. We stand a big chance to go 2-5 in our first 7 games; and then we still have the Giants on the road and five games against our division foes, all of whom are ahead of us and will be further ahead if we continue to play crummy football.

There was no confusion in the secondary today, or even a tremendous amount of penalties (take away the phantom calls on Shields and Perry). In the first half we battered Luck, sacking and hitting him repeatedly. The second half, pass rush was virtually non-existent, and we dropped 2 or 3 interceptions.

Losing Bishop has hurt too, in addition to Collins being gone now for over a season.

Tramon has been beat like a mule this season. Woodson hasnt been much better.

Raji has still been slow off the ball and is pretty ineffective, Worthy has been more impressive.

Smith/Hawk are an average combo, Matthews has been excellent rushing the passer, but received 2 offsides penalties today.

All-in-All.. the defense was pretty bad in the 2nd half today, but this game was over in the first half had the refs not blown the call on Perry when he hit Luck and jarred the ball loose (GB recovered) in the first half. Another game with a few bad calls not going our way was just enough to be the difference again. We should have beaten Indy anyways, but its just frustrating to keep seeing that happen.

quote:

and a btw, if Perry's sack is a penalty this isn't football anymore. I get it if you don't want shots to the head but there's damn near no place left to hit a QB that isn't a penalty. If his helmet happens to hit his shoulder to flippin bad for Luck.

It isn't football anymore. In the grasp. The tuck rule. Etc. etc.

Now I agreed with the rules that stopped tacklers from going after the QB's ankles etc. while they are throwing. I agree with helmet to helmet IF the defender launches himself. I don't agree with the penalty on Perry or when a defenders helmet slides during the course of a tackle. But that's how today's rules read. It ought to be a sack if the defender puts two hands on the QB in the pocket just to make it fair.

Packers have had 2 turnovers taken away the last 3 weeks by bogus roughing the passer penalties. As bad as the one today was the one on Wilson was much worse.

I don't know how a team can drop so many interceptions.

quote:

Originally posted by smu86:
losing nick collins is bigger than anyone has mentioned. he was the qb of the defense, not to mention an all-pro safety.

I'm sick of hearing this excuse. That was 2 years ago. We should have a new "QB" by now, and if we don't, the problem is with the current roster, not what's missing from 2010's. Same with Jenkins.

quote:

Originally posted by turnip blood:
Did the Colts pick on Woodson today?
I begining to think he has lost more then just a step.

Woodson was absolutely torched by Wayne on multiple occasions today. He had a terrible day

And Donald Driver, love the guy like everyone else, but he contributes nothing to the offense anymore. AR12 hit him right between the 8 and 0 and the ball bounced off him like it hit a wall.

I missed the game today, but reading the stats told me what I needed to know.
Defense didn't stop 3rd down conversions, apparently didn't (or couldn't) cover Wayne, and totally pussed out on the final drive.

Everything concerning our defense is an excuse. Injury, bad calls by ref, poor game plan, quality of opponent, offensive ineptness, and/or player performance are only a few of the ones most mentioned. But there comes a time when, regardless of circumstances, the defense has to do its' job.

The first is to hold the opposition to 20 points or less.
The second is to maintain field position for the offense.
The third is to turn the ball over to the offense, whether it's by forcing punts or creating a defensive turnover.
Obviously, we're failing on at least 2 out of those 3 more often than not.

We've added plenty of players this year, so it makes me look more towards the scheme or coaching as the source of our problems. Add to that the "miscommunications" and it reinforces that idea.
It's not time to fire coaches and/or cut players, but it is time to make some fundamental changes to our approach. All I see happening thus far is trying to put a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.

I thought Walden had a better day than CM3.

Matthews was basically invisible. Our defense actually wasn't that bad for most of the first three quarters, but considering how terrible their OL is and how few weapons they have, that's just what they should have been doing. Their OL wasn't far from the point where they had to start putting DL in there due to injuries. After giving us all very encouraging signs against Chicago and Seattle, they've settled back into playing like ****. Of course, our 1-2-3-PUNT offense that keeps them on the field for the entire 3rd quarter every game does them no favors.

Our defense was bad in the 3rd quarter, giving up 2 TD's and a FG.

The Colts converted a 3rd and 9, 3rd and 7, and 3rd and 12 on their 4:30, 13 play 80 yard drive game winning drive. Our lack of a pass rush--other than CMIII near sack on the 3rd and 12 that might have been ballgame---killed us.

It was bad, but the worst thing about the third was the constant 3 and outs. In all five games this season, the opposing team has absolutely destroyed the Packers in time of possession in the 3rd quarter. Both sides of the ball are behind that one.

Offenses are going to have spotty performances. Offenses are going to turn the ball over. Special teams are going to screw up. And, yes, officials are going to screw the pooch, Good defenses blunt or even forgive these transgressions by holding the opposition to a FG or to no score at all.

The Packers defense has given up touchdown drives twice to rookie QB'd teams when they had the lead and a stop would have won the game. That's the cold hard facts of it. The prior 59 1/2 minutes of "what if's" and "coulda's" aren't worth spit.