I am eagerly awaiting to be proved wrong and eat truckloads of crow. I will wear my folly with pride. Campen makes me sad.
We can't all be short, bald, timid and boring.
quote:Perhaps his most interesting remark was about projected starting center Evan Dietrich-Smith, who replaced veteran Jeff Saturday in Week 16 last season.
“I think (Dietrich-Smith) starting out the year at center is going to be a big improvement for us,” Rodgers said. “He’s going to do a great job for us. I like his future.”
http://www.greenbaypressgazett...ht-on-contract-talks
If a 2012 UDFA that played 3 years at LT at a small school turned out to be GB's best option at RT after Bulaga went down, I'm not ready to concede that a LT with a 2-3 round draft grade like Bakhtiari isn't capable of starting at RT week 1 in SF. GB might have long term plans to move him inside. But if he turns out to be one of the 5 best lineman on the team he needs to be on the field.
Or, that a genius former HS QB drafted in the 4th round can't be a starting C.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
EDS was solid last season. Newhouse was by far the worst OL on the field. I'd rather see him cut, making room for the new/younger guys to "develop."
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Better run blocker, sucks in pass coverage.
He's playing for a contract. He'll be serviceable at worst.
I also hope they start looking at Tretter @ C from day one.
quote:Originally posted by ChilliJon:
I'm not ready to concede that a LT with a 2-3 round draft grade like Bakhtiari isn't capable of starting at RT week 1 in SF.
Either are the Packers. Link
quote:The source said fourth-round draft pick David Bakhtiari will get a chance to compete for the job with Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse and Derek Sherrod.
I have a feeling our run game is going to be strong this season
So much for it being a passing league. 
But think about it- Rodgers sets records, the Packers in many ways redefine passing, efficiency, proficiency... Now they shift gears. Now they become a more running team. Thy still have all the ability to pass he ball that they've always had- now they pick and choose when to use it more, but far more sparingly. Less shotgun, more power formations. It's funny, that's what I thought they would do when they drafts DJ Williams. I thought we would see more of the power formations and then passing looks out of those. Mike Holmgren won a lot with that idea.
In theory anyway...
But think about it- Rodgers sets records, the Packers in many ways redefine passing, efficiency, proficiency... Now they shift gears. Now they become a more running team. Thy still have all the ability to pass he ball that they've always had- now they pick and choose when to use it more, but far more sparingly. Less shotgun, more power formations. It's funny, that's what I thought they would do when they drafts DJ Williams. I thought we would see more of the power formations and then passing looks out of those. Mike Holmgren won a lot with that idea.
In theory anyway...
I think the intent was that Benson was going to be the guy to help establish a power running game last year. Didn't work out. Packers bring in Mulligan and then Lacy and you can see where they want to go.
MM is still pass happy though. He knows a serious running game is going to make AR more dangerous. And the team more dangerous in January.
MM is still pass happy though. He knows a serious running game is going to make AR more dangerous. And the team more dangerous in January.
quote:Originally posted by Goalline:
What's that? Douche?
Marshmallow. Obviously don't have those in Africa.
quote:Originally posted by Sep:
EDS was solid last season. Newhouse was by far the worst OL on the field.
You forgot to add, "but I didn't watch any games last year".
quote:The source said fourth-round draft pick David Bakhtiari will get a chance to compete for the job with Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse and Derek Sherrod.
Why no mention of Datko in all this?
I don't think MM has written him off either unless there is info out there we're not aware of. IIRC Datko was raw and a project but there was potential there.
As for the shuffle, all for it. I just wish we had a better coach for the OL.
As for the shuffle, all for it. I just wish we had a better coach for the OL.
The amount of hate Campen gets from Packers fans (here and elsewhere) astonishes me.
He never got to coach Rivera or Wahle. Clifton and Tauscher were getting up there in age when Campen arrived, and had to be taught a whole new blocking system.
Since TT took over the team he's had 9 drafts. In the first three rounds of those drafts, TT has selected a combined FOUR offensive linemen. Injuries have prevented Sherrod from getting a chance. Spitz and College both played far better under Campen's coaching than they did for their next teams. And Bulaga excelled learning a new side of the field.
Campen has helped turn Sitton (4th round) into a Pro Bowl caliber player, and made a solid starter out of Lang despite having to move him all over the line. He also deserves some of the credit for turing a 7th round C (Wells) into a Pro Bowler. He got enough out of Marshall Newhouse to get the team into the Super Bowl. Most people seem to think Barclay did a good job filling in last year- I'd say Campen had something to do with that too.
Moreover, I can think of exactly zero players thought to have huge potential that floundered under Campen's tutelage.
Now he's being asked to take a line with 3 good (proven) players, and move all three of them to new positions at the same time. And to try to mold starters for the other two spots out of a group that includes 2 undrafted players, 2 4th round picks (both rookies), and a guy that hasn't played for a year and a half because of a horrible leg break.
What do you want to bet that if he pulls it off, Campen will get none of the credit, but he'll get all the blame if it fails?
He never got to coach Rivera or Wahle. Clifton and Tauscher were getting up there in age when Campen arrived, and had to be taught a whole new blocking system.
Since TT took over the team he's had 9 drafts. In the first three rounds of those drafts, TT has selected a combined FOUR offensive linemen. Injuries have prevented Sherrod from getting a chance. Spitz and College both played far better under Campen's coaching than they did for their next teams. And Bulaga excelled learning a new side of the field.
Campen has helped turn Sitton (4th round) into a Pro Bowl caliber player, and made a solid starter out of Lang despite having to move him all over the line. He also deserves some of the credit for turing a 7th round C (Wells) into a Pro Bowler. He got enough out of Marshall Newhouse to get the team into the Super Bowl. Most people seem to think Barclay did a good job filling in last year- I'd say Campen had something to do with that too.
Moreover, I can think of exactly zero players thought to have huge potential that floundered under Campen's tutelage.
Now he's being asked to take a line with 3 good (proven) players, and move all three of them to new positions at the same time. And to try to mold starters for the other two spots out of a group that includes 2 undrafted players, 2 4th round picks (both rookies), and a guy that hasn't played for a year and a half because of a horrible leg break.
What do you want to bet that if he pulls it off, Campen will get none of the credit, but he'll get all the blame if it fails?
correct
Complete bull****. Campen came on staff as the guy that was going to implement ZBS after being in Atlanta. TT drafted those hybrid TE/olinemen for the scheme and it flat out sucked. Only when TT started drafting olinemen that had solid college careers at their position in the oline did things begin to solidify. Campen didn't coach up squat. Most of the line succeeded on the talents that got them through college.
Barbre ring a bell? Giacomini? Any player that actually needed development sucked. At best Campen is below average. Saying Buluga as a 1st rounder who played LT making the jump to RT is some coup is idiotic. Sitton, Barclay and Lang, solid 4 year players that made their own mark. Newhouse, the epitome of a excellent development project with a great bloodline, smart demeanor and understanding of the game has gone sideways. EDS, how ****ing long is he going to develop and still be piss poor in pass protection?
Total crap.
Barbre ring a bell? Giacomini? Any player that actually needed development sucked. At best Campen is below average. Saying Buluga as a 1st rounder who played LT making the jump to RT is some coup is idiotic. Sitton, Barclay and Lang, solid 4 year players that made their own mark. Newhouse, the epitome of a excellent development project with a great bloodline, smart demeanor and understanding of the game has gone sideways. EDS, how ****ing long is he going to develop and still be piss poor in pass protection?
Total crap.
quote:Originally posted by Satori:
I've read that Barclay is better at run blocking but doesn't have the ideal length or athleticism to pass block on the edge. Newhouse has better size and better feet for pass pro but his run blocking is anemic at best.
Given those two less than ideal choices, it would seem that Newhouse would be the front runner for RT. They also put Sherrod in competition for RT and he'd likely be the best solution of all - with Barclay and Newhouse as the top backups
With GB looking to bolster the run in 2013, the addition of Mulligan and Quarless means they can help out both of the tackles with a 2 TE set if they need to. I think Newhouse gets the early nod at RT, and am hopeful Sherrod takes it away from him in August. Barclay stepped up, but not sure he can handle the edge rushers without help and we know the opponents will move their guys around- saw it with Peppers and with Watt last year. They will attack Barclay
...I believe the story with Barclay was that he had a shoulder injury that hampered his upper body strength development during his last year in college. Seems that the Packers think he has the athletic ability but want to see how much of a "jump" he makes with a year of our strength training program under his belt.
I thought that was Datko's MO, not Barclay, could be wrong though.
As to Campen, I believe he falls somewhere in the middle, not a great OL coach, but not as piss poor as some make him out to be.
This whole OL shuffling, blocking TE (Mulligan) signing and RB draft picks (Lacy/Franklin)has one singular purpose, to stop the opposing defence from 2 safety cover 2 looks we constantly have seen since towards the end of 2011. In 2011 our offence was unstoppable as a pass heavy team until they started implementing the cover 2 nonstop. In 2012 we tried countermeasures that for whatever reason were not as successful as desired. Now for 2013 we will have a cover 2 beater in a new respectable running game with improved run blocking, good running backs, solid TE run blockers (Quarless/Mulligan) etc etc.
The game keeps evolving and I think TT & MM with these recent moves will have our Offence clicking on all cylindars, helping keep the Defence fresh.
Its gonna be hard for alot of guys to make this team this year, but thats for another thread, right now I think the Pack is all in for beating the cover 2, and forcing teams out of it and then letting AR cream the opposition for many victories.
As to Campen, I believe he falls somewhere in the middle, not a great OL coach, but not as piss poor as some make him out to be.
This whole OL shuffling, blocking TE (Mulligan) signing and RB draft picks (Lacy/Franklin)has one singular purpose, to stop the opposing defence from 2 safety cover 2 looks we constantly have seen since towards the end of 2011. In 2011 our offence was unstoppable as a pass heavy team until they started implementing the cover 2 nonstop. In 2012 we tried countermeasures that for whatever reason were not as successful as desired. Now for 2013 we will have a cover 2 beater in a new respectable running game with improved run blocking, good running backs, solid TE run blockers (Quarless/Mulligan) etc etc.
The game keeps evolving and I think TT & MM with these recent moves will have our Offence clicking on all cylindars, helping keep the Defence fresh.
Its gonna be hard for alot of guys to make this team this year, but thats for another thread, right now I think the Pack is all in for beating the cover 2, and forcing teams out of it and then letting AR cream the opposition for many victories.
Boss, you laughing at me? Thought it was at least a half way sound analysis. 
No, Henry. Sorry for the confusion DD 
quote:Originally posted by Tdog:
I think you meant Datko
...I do mean Datko sorry.
Henry doesn't like EDS. Rodgers tries to puff up EDS to the press. Someone is Rong.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Newhouse, the epitome of a excellent development project with a great bloodline, smart demeanor and understanding of the game has gone sideways.
Is Newhouse your cousin?
quote:Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
Henry doesn't like EDS. Rodgers tries to puff up EDS to the press. Someone is Rong.
I liked what he did in the run game vs. SF. He is definitely better in run blocking than Saturday but that ain't saying much. This team still revolves around Rodgers regardless of how many RBs TT drafted. Rodgers did some serious chicken with his head cut off running last year. EDS would've been good fodder for Doppler shift experiments last year. DTs were just blue then red light from his perspective.
That's the other thing, how are these new backs going to fare in blitz pickups if someone is covering EDS's ass.
@Henry
Barbre was a 4th round pick that didn't do any better in Seattle. Giocomini was swiped off the practice squad before his rookie contract expired. If those are the worst failures you can point to under Campen, you've done an excellent job of proving my point.
As for the zone blocking scheme, I was never a huge fan, but even the best schemes need players, and Thompson didn't put a priority on accuiring linemen until they had already begun to transition to a hybrid scheme. A transition Campen has handled pretty well considering, btw.
And Campen wasn't brought in to implamnet the ZBS. He was hired by Sherman in 2004 (his first NFL coaching gig). He never coached in Atlanta.
I usually appreciate your opinions, even when I disagree with them, but I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about in this case.
Any coach is going to look bad if you blame them for every player that doesn't work out, and refuse to give them credit for the players that do.
Barbre was a 4th round pick that didn't do any better in Seattle. Giocomini was swiped off the practice squad before his rookie contract expired. If those are the worst failures you can point to under Campen, you've done an excellent job of proving my point.
As for the zone blocking scheme, I was never a huge fan, but even the best schemes need players, and Thompson didn't put a priority on accuiring linemen until they had already begun to transition to a hybrid scheme. A transition Campen has handled pretty well considering, btw.
And Campen wasn't brought in to implamnet the ZBS. He was hired by Sherman in 2004 (his first NFL coaching gig). He never coached in Atlanta.
I usually appreciate your opinions, even when I disagree with them, but I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about in this case.
Any coach is going to look bad if you blame them for every player that doesn't work out, and refuse to give them credit for the players that do.
You're right about the Falcons thing, I was thinking of that big dink Jeff Jagodink who was going bring Alex Gibbs ZBS in with Philbin and Campen. I got my scrub coaches mixed up.
It was turned over to Philbin and Campen after Jagowank was gone. So I call mea culpa on merging the two together. That said, proof is in the pudding. That oline has been in a state of flux for years. Part of it being injury, which isn't his fault but his supposed development prowess is non-existent.
After watching coaches like Beightol and Sherman adapt to injury and scheme you can't tell me this guy is anything but pedestrian.
It was turned over to Philbin and Campen after Jagowank was gone. So I call mea culpa on merging the two together. That said, proof is in the pudding. That oline has been in a state of flux for years. Part of it being injury, which isn't his fault but his supposed development prowess is non-existent.
After watching coaches like Beightol and Sherman adapt to injury and scheme you can't tell me this guy is anything but pedestrian.
truly shockingquote:Originally posted by Henry:
You're right. I got mixed up.
quote:Originally posted by boxedup:
@Henry
Barbre was a 4th round pick that didn't do any better in Seattle. Giocomini was swiped off the practice squad before his rookie contract expired. If those are the worst failures you can point to under Campen, you've done an excellent job of proving my point.
Let's address this specifically. These guys were the tweener picks. The "athletic" freak TE conversions that just needed to be groomed. That's the whole point, you put anyone on this team that needs to actually develop into the position it has been mediocre at best. The guys that need development don't develop.
Do you remember Wahle (a supplemental pick) getting destroyed at LT? Yet he was put in a LG and shaped and became a stud player. That's developement. You remember Barbre just getting turned like a crack whore? That dingy went down in flames. What about Giadumtits? Total scrub in Green Bay yet is playing in Seattle.
Again, Lang, Barclay, Sitton, Newhouse, all successful 4 year players on the oline in college. Were you impressed when Lang went through a streak of **** games last year? All of them took a punch in the mouth last year. Was it all because Saturday was washed up or the inability to adjust? Does Campen deserve all the blame, of course not but what I've seen since he's been coaching the line is mediocrity. It's a turd and it stinks.
All this talk makes me leary about Tretter. Reading his bio this guy should make the jump but if history is a indicator he is going to need all of his smarts.
I never thought Campen was exceptional. I do think he's done well considering the players he's been given and the short time he's been an NFL coach. I also think he's improving. But most of all I think he gets an unreasonable amount of crap from many Packers fans. But if you're asking if I think he's destined to be a Head Coach one day, I do not.
But compare him to Kevin Green, who has one success story (a guy that would be a Pro Bowler anywhere), but gets nothing but love and adoration. I just don't understand the level of vitriol.
I do think that if the OL improved dramatically this year, Campen deserves huge props
Not that I expect miracles with EDS at center.
But compare him to Kevin Green, who has one success story (a guy that would be a Pro Bowler anywhere), but gets nothing but love and adoration. I just don't understand the level of vitriol.
I do think that if the OL improved dramatically this year, Campen deserves huge props
Not that I expect miracles with EDS at center.