Packers/Vikings +/-

@SteveLuke posted:

- 3rd and 14 on the first drive of the game, crowd in a frenzy, and the Packers rush 4 and give up an easy pitch and catch first down to the opposition. This is year 14 of watching the same old crap and it has gotten old. The D sucked arse in the first half. You have no grace period Hafley, sorry.

---- If anybody has spotted Gary, Clark, or Van Ness as 1st round difference makers, please post videos. The first two have been (over) paid and the last one is the latest rendition of "just be patient, he is about to produce" Packer propoganda. So sad seeing the D disappoint year after year after year.

I totally agree on our defensive line being a major disappointment.  They were great vs. Tennessee but mostly invisible and weak at the point of attack in the other 3 games.  Aaron Jones had a very easy time finding running lanes.  Darnold had a clean pocket on far too many passing downs.

Rashaan Gary had that absurdly great game vs the Bears in week 1 of 2023.  It is becoming obvious what an absolute fluke that day was and he’s been incredibly ordinary ever since.

I feel like the only D-Lineman who has played at least somewhat decently this year was Devontae Wyatt and of course he got hurt and looks like he might miss some time going forward.  Engabare has been okay too, but his lack of speed can come back to bite him at times.

Positives

1. Love showed that even in games that he struggles, he's still good enough to given them a chance.

2. The safety play is better than it has been in years.

3. Whelan may be the best punter they've had since Hentrich.

4. The pass blocking was fairly good against a good Vikings front 4.

Negatives

1. Jaire Alexander makes a big difference. He's actually somewhat worth the money (unlike some of their other big ticket defenders). Hopefully, this is a short absence.

2. Narveson is obvious.

3. Van Ness and Gary hardly make any plays. Unless those two improve, there is a ceiling on what they can do against good teams.

4. Does Kenny Clark really do anything a mid-level salaried vet wouldn't do?

5. Hafley was Barry-esque in the first half. If is expecting his front 4 to make plays, he's going to be waiting a long time in many games. Gary, Van Ness, P. Smith, and Clark are not ever going to be confused with Reggie White, Clay Matthews, Julius Peppers, or even Z. Smith.

+ Took a while but Love getting back up to speed.

- Somebody burn that damn 4arve jersey Love wore before the dame. It must've rubbed off on him when he threw up that 50/50 ball on 1st and 10 with 6:18 left.

INT in the EZ? "There is your dagger!"

Bonus: Worst penalty? Well it didn't end up costing them points but LaFleur's meltdown was a bad look on a bad day. Starts at the top.

Rahsaan Gary has ONE sack in his last 11 games. One.

And Clark is looking like he hit the Mike Daniels wall.

Alexander missing half of the last 52 games or so.

Whole Lotta stealing going on...

Go on, take the money and run.

And one last thing. I'm a 63 year old guy who's been watching football as long as I can remember. I've seen I don't know how many games, in person and on TV, at every level, and probably have seen literally thousands of passes thrown in my lifetime.

But it occurs to me...after all that...I STILL don't know what a catch is. 🤷

It's OK; the refs don't know either.

MLF said that on Love's INT in the EZ that an out pattern was called but Love changed it to a go route when he saw that there was going to be an unblocked rusher with single coverage on Wicks. A couple of things here. Wicks isn't our fastest WR but if Love would have thrown the ball to the outside he would have had a chance, or at least a better chance of it not being intercepted. It is somewhat concerning that Love did shit like this his last season in college and is still dong it.

I was listening to Mike Wahl talk about Gary and Van Ness. He said that neither of them have a quick first step and are basically power rushers. Said the problem with Gary is that he wants to be a speed rusher, but doesn't have the feet for it.

I only got to see the last 6 minutes or so of this when I got home.  So I can only really comment on the part of the game I saw, what's in the box score and from what some talking heads were saying.

Positives:

This team team did show some grit when they turned things around and started the comeback.  But it was just a little bit too late after having to overcome four turnovers and missing more FGs.

Love was very rusty and it showed but he also showed even when he is rusty he is a difference maker.

Negatives:

Two NFC losses already, down two games in the NFCN standings and a loss to the division leader is really being down three games after only four games being played.  Lots of games left to be played but that a hole they need to crawl out of.

Watson is hurt AGAIN. I didn't see how he got hurt I just hope he can make his way back.  Either he is made of glass or has bad luck to miss what seems like 50% of the games.

The defense by all accounts and from everyone has said here sounds like it was Charmin soft.  I do understand you want to do your best to contain Jefferson and they did hold him to 85 yards and a TD.  I prepared going in for him to get twice that amount with #23 out. 

I don't know how much of the wide open receivers for MIN had to do with JA being out and how much of it just had to do with the fact their coach is a pretty good play caller - and they have a great trio of WR's.  But it really boiled down to not getting pressure on Darnold.  I read somewhere that Hafley was all about pressure but saw little of it yesterday.

Darnold is certainly playing better than he ever has, and without seeing his other games this year, I have to believe it's because his OL is giving him time to find the open guy.  Pair that with very good WR group and play caller and he really should be excelling.  He threw one bad pick at the goal line and should have thrown another that could have stunted their whole first quarter momentum.  We'll see what happens with him if his OL and WRs get dinged.

"Watson is hurt AGAIN. I didn't see how he got hurt I just hope he can make his way back.  Either he is made of glass or has bad luck to miss what seems like 50% of the games."

Watson's left ankle got pinned under a player, (hyperextended) as Watson fell backwards trying to make a catch on a dangerous pass from Love.

@RapSheet:  No fracture for Christian Watson, but a high-ankle sprain that could land him on Injured Reserve.

The word "could" in that sentence is fighting for its life.

@DH13 posted:

Patience.

Exactly! Look what happened to the Twins this season. Played well to be at or near the lead in their division, all season long. Get to the last few weeks of the regular season and suddenly, they are also-rans and out of the post season. It will happen to the vikings, as well.

Watson may well be made out of glass but he is damn lucky he only suffered an ankle sprain on the play in question — a throw across the middle into triple coverage that had almost 0% chance of being completed … to a Packer.

Not only did Love get picked off on the play he exposed Watson to a brutal hit. Awful.

I hope Jordan knocked the rust off late in the game because no matter what the stats say he was not good when the contest was still in doubt yesterday.

Didn't think Love was all that sharp against the Eagles and his play yesterday wasn't surprising given his layoff. No doubt in my mind that we'll start to see the QB from the second half of last season sooner rather than later.

@antiworst posted:

Rahsaan Gary has ONE sack in his last 11 games. One.

And Clark is looking like he hit the Mike Daniels wall.

Alexander missing half of the last 52 games or so.

Whole Lotta stealing going on...

If you throw Quay Walker, Van Ness, and previously Darnell Savage in with that group-that's a lot of draft capital not living up to expectations on the defensive side of the ball considering where they were drafted.

It kind of begins with talent.

None of the drafted edge guys are explosive, they’re power guys.

Going to a 4-3 with crap linebackers is stupid. They had some money to sign a competent starter like Van Ginkel and didn’t. They had no room for error when Cooper’s injury delayed his progress which would still have left them one short. McDuffie and Wilson should not be starting.

The CB depth was insufficient, as well.

‘I’m not sure what to think of the offensive line. Minnesota played very aggressively and they handled a lot, but Walker struggled again too often.

We were also told this was going to be a more aggressive defense, yet it took a 28-point deficit to finally see it. Minnesota does not have good DBs, but they cover that with aggression up front. Quay can rush the passer, yet they seem reticent to let him do so, for example, too often relying on a vanilla front four just rotating guys in. Again, it doesn’t help their edges aren’t explosive but just decent offensive lines can handle straightforward rushing schemes. It’s like McCarthy’s iso pass routes with mediocre receivers.

It was good to see them get back in it, but the hole they dug was inexcusable.

@YATittle posted:

As someone who was there, I offer this.

—love was missing open guys all game. Pretty bad. I’ll check it on the all-22 but I recall on many key pass incompletions there were guys wide open for shorter yardage. He wasn’t seeing them.

—The DC was a fool not to blitz Darnold. This is more important with two vital CBS missing.

—Vikings rookie kicker seemed to have no issues with the swirling wind.

—could not believe how bad the refs were on the reviews. Even a Viking fan near us thought they were ridiculous

YA,

I concur, also I watched Narv during kicking warmups and he was missed at least three kicks. Low and behold thats what he did in game. Not sure what to think of the kicking game but something HAS to be done.

The Packers’ top three corners of Eric Stokes, Keisean Nixon and Corey Ballentine were targeted a combined 16 times on Sunday, allowing 12 receptions for 207 yards, two touchdowns and a passer rating of 139.3.

— Zachary Jacobson (@zacobson) September 30, 2024

To be fair, that's more about a lack of QB pressure than the corners.

Biggest negative: "And the Packers rush four," "Packers rush four," "Green Bay sends four," over and over again. No pressure on Darnold. None. The guy stood back there and cut up the GB secondary like he was slicing bread because no one was coming close to him. So disappointed in Hafley. Yes, you have two guys out in the backfield, but to expect a hurting secondary to hold back Jefferson and Addison, plus the others, for 3 or 4 seconds on every play is poor, poor game planning. Darnold isn't a great QB, but he is a pro and he does get paid; Hafley underestimated him the entire game.

I can't fault Watson for the injury. It was brutal the way he got bent over backwards, and it will be a miracle if it's "only" an ankle sprain. It was a poor decision by Love to try to fit that ball in to him.

MLF getting the unsportsmanlike was a mixed bag. The ref clearly ignored him when he wanted the TO so I don't blame him losing it, but it could have killed the scoring opportunity. OTOH, he showed more fire than did the team to that point. (Even if he did look like a toddler throwing a tantrum.)

As I said before this game, I expected GB to lose. I did not expect to get embarrassed. I ab-so-fuk-ing-lute-ly hate the Vikings, and this game was like rubbing lemon juice into a paper cut. (Thank you, Mad Max.)

Neg

Nixon and Ballentine getting minutes.

Narveson keeps missing right.

Catch the ball. 2nd INT, 2 WRs had hands on the pass.

Drops.

Penalties.

Love shaky early. Lotta low throws. WTF Farve heave on 1st down, down 9, and 6 minutes left.

Pass rush, Darnold too comfortable.

Run D.

Pos

2nd half, no quitting.

Whelan.

I certainly expected to hear Van Ness's name a lot more during each game....so far a mild disappointment. Hopefully we'll hear it more often

I don't know how far down the road VanNess got with transforming his body to be an 34 OLB, but Gary already arrived there last year.  So they may both need time to shift things in reverse to get themselves best prepared at DE.

I haven't been able to watch but has Karl Brooks been seeing any snaps at DE? 

@Dave in GA posted:

I certainly expected to hear Van Ness's name a lot more during each game....so far a mild disappointment. Hopefully we'll hear it more often

Poor mans Dean Lowry so far.

In defense of Dean…he did make a few plays.  Still waiting on this guy.

@antiworst posted:

Rahsaan Gary has ONE sack in his last 11 games. One.

And Clark is looking like he hit the Mike Daniels wall.

Alexander missing half of the last 52 games or so.

Whole Lotta stealing going on...

Sums it up nicely.

@FLPACKER posted:

MLF said that on Love's INT in the EZ that an out pattern was called but Love changed it to a go route when he saw that there was going to be an unblocked rusher with single coverage on Wicks. A couple of things here. Wicks isn't our fastest WR but if Love would have thrown the ball to the outside he would have had a chance, or at least a better chance of it not being intercepted. It is somewhat concerning that Love did shit like this his last season in college and is still dong it.

I was listening to Mike Wahl talk about Gary and Van Ness. He said that neither of them have a quick first step and are basically power rushers. Said the problem with Gary is that he wants to be a speed rusher, but doesn't have the feet for it.

Yet they paid him as if he did.

I also wonder if this isn't a trial year for the D personnel and if Gute doesn't do a lot of dealing next offseason to get guys that better fit the 43.

@13X posted:

If you throw Quay Walker, Van Ness, and previously Darnell Savage in with that group-that's a lot of draft capital not living up to expectations on the defensive side of the ball considering where they were drafted.

But we're supposed to Gute. Who also can't find a kicker.

Right now we are at 20th in the NFL for points per game allowed.    Here is the point totals vs us / other games played.

Vikings - 31 / 28, 23, 34
Titans - 14 / 17, 17, in progress
Colts - 10 / 27, 21, 27
Eagles - 34 / 21, 15, 16

Over performed against the colts and under performed against the Eagles.   The other 2 games about a league avg performance.

I still have hope because I have now seen the DC adjust.   In the Viking game he came to the conclusion that the front 4 wasn't getting home and the CB's couldn't hold up.   He adjusted and got results.     Yes, we all wish he would have came in with that plan, but at least he was willing to move off of his original plan.

@DH13 posted:

I also wonder if this isn't a trial year for the D personnel and if Gute doesn't do a lot of dealing next offseason to get guys that better fit the 43.

The edge players he’s been drafting were already a better fit for a 4-3 than a 3-4. Preston is the only one who could play in space. Quay might be the second-best pass rusher on defense right now, which isn’t exactly a good sign.

Maybe, but they've also been changing their builds to be better standing up and dropping back.

@H5 posted:

Penalties.

Love shaky early. Lotta low throws. WTF Farve heave on 1st down, down 9, and 6 minutes left.

Pass rush, Darnold too comfortable.

Love is still a young QB in terms of experience in meaningful games. He made the ill-advised throw in the SF playoff game last year as well, trying to get a quick score at the end despite having something like 45 seconds left. Against the Vikings, he wanted to get all the points back at once.

Most young QBs don't realize it's more about efficiency than about scoring right away. It comes down to staying cool and getting what you can when you can without blowing it. This is something Love has yet to learn.

@BrainDed posted:

Poor mans Dean Lowry so far.

Dean Lowry was a 4th round pick who got 3 years and 20 million in his biggest contract. He wasn't great, but he wasn't a total stiff. He was a guy you could get by with if he was 4th or 5th DL in a rotation. That's why he's still in the league after 9 years playing for the Steelers at 2.5 million this year.

Gary is getting 24 million a year and was the 12th overall pick. Van Ness was the 13th overall pick and is gettin 17 million over 4 years on his rookie deal. The expectations and metrics for success are completely different. You can't expect every higher first round pick to be Reggie White or CM3, but you need them to be better than average. Gary was getting single blocked by TEs against the Vikings. I'd much rather have Lowry at 2.5 million and have an extra 23 million of cap space to spend on other players than Rashan Gary right now.

https://x.com/AndyHermanNFL/st.../1840750137171230839

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

https://x.com/AndyHermanNFL/st.../1840750137171230839

He sealed the edge though.