Pass Rush - So'oto?

I kind of get the feeling the Pack wants So'oto to play the same position on the strong side that Matthews is playing. Maybe moving Matthews back to the right side (where he was as a rookie) wouldn't be a horrible idea if So'oto ended up being better on his side than any of the other guys are on the right/weak side.

You may be right about the Pack's intent. However, IF So'oto plays the run well and rushes the passer well, and is not a liability in coverage, why not move Matthews back to the right side? He has definitely shown that he can play there and play well. Given our anemic pass rush, I want to get the best guys on the field, regardless of where. With no pass rush, I really worry about what guys like Ryan, Stafford, Rivers and Freeman will do to our secondary. 4-0 won't last long if we can't get after the passer.

What has led you to believe he would be an upgrade over Walden? How could So'oto have been more successful against arguably one of the top LT's in the NFL (Clady)? From what I've seen, So'oto is a very raw talent who gets very aggressive and while he will make a couple good plays, his aggressiveness often leads him to miss plays. He reminds me of Desmond Bishop as a rookie...very aggressive, hit hard, but hadn't yet learned what he needed to do to become a complete LB. He needs time to develop, Walden is clearly the better player at this point, that's why he's the starter.

He got a couple of snaps at Matthews position in the last Denver drive that ended with Peprah's interception. That's it.

I kind of like your idea of experimenting by giving him a shot at strong side OLB and moving Matthews to the weak side. We have to try something. We can't keep giving these QBs an eternity to carve us up.

The other thing that I keep hoping for is for Mike Neal to get healthy. The strength that he showed last year in the Redskin game could also help alleviate the issue. As of now, we have no one on the Dline other than Raji that can take advantage of mismatches.

The Packers need to do something creative to fix the pass rush. It will be the Achille's heel that will kill the season in the end if it is not fixed.

I did not say he "would be an upgrade." I merely said that he showed promise in the pre-season and was disappointed that he hasn't been given a chance yet. The last several minutes of yesterday's game was a perfect opportunity to do so. Ryan, et.al. will chew us up if we get no pressure on them. Yesterday was a missed o0pportunity to see if he could help, at least in obvious passing situations.

But keep in mind he showed promise against second and third stringers. Walden has shown promise against starters. There's a lot more to being an OLB than pass rushing, Walden is a strong run defender and is athletic enough to run with TEs. CM3 has actually had more opportunities to rush the QB because Walden has been able to handle coverage responsibilities. So'oto showed promising athletic ability and great effort, but I think getting him in there more than a couple plays a game could hurt more than help.

We're not saying anything all that different, Digger. Yesterday was a great opportunity that wasn't taken advantage of.

By the way, the p-s games where So'oto started to show something were #3 and #4. In both of those games, he was mostly going against first stringers; especially against KC in #4. If he hadn't been showing promise against first line guys in those games, I would have kept my mouth shut about this and just hoped that we didn't need to play him.

As one of the other comments said, I really worry about our pass defense getting torn apart by the likes of White, Jones and Gonzalez this week; the San Diego gang and big Calvin.

quote:

Originally posted by PackingSense:
The Packers need to do something creative to fix the pass rush. It will be the Achille's heel that will kill the season in the end if it is not fixed.

Oh boy, is this going to be the mantra this year instead of the running backs?

Hawk, remember 2009 and the frustration of having narrow leads or a tie with 4-5 minutes left; and the absolute agony of KNOWING that our D was incapable of stopping the opponents? Except for yesterday's game, that's what we have been watching so far this year. Maybe So'oto is not the answer, but the D on this year's team basically stinks so far and it will kill our season if we can't find a way to "fix it." If that's a "mantra," then so be it. When our D actually plays well and STOPS another team from moving the ball at will, there won't be a need for concern anymore. Yes, it's a "stop" when we get an interception or a fumble recovery, but we all know that isn't going to happen every game. We need to be much more solid throughout defensively. If we aren't our season will end too soon.

By the way, last year we solved the problem of the running backs when Starks stepped up and did the job. This year, somebody needs to do it for the D. Could it be So'oto? Or someone else? I don't care. I just want the Pack's D to play MUCH better.

I don't know what GB can do in the short term aside from waiting for Neal to heal up to suddenly get a pass rush. While Capers will no doubt have some tricks up his sleeve, to start mass blitzing (as was suggested by some geenyuses on talk radio here) also opens up a host of other problems where a competent QB can burn you that way.

If, IFFFF Neal can in fact come after the bye it will be a big lift for the Packers pass rush as well as the rotation of the DL. But we also have to remember he hasn't seen real football in what? A year now? Last I heard he was back lifting weights again but was not cleared to start running. He's going to need a couple weeks after he starts playing to get into football shape again.

Get past ATL and GB faces 2 pretty bad teams in STL and MINN. Then we get the bye.

Then hopefully we get Neal back. From there we just might get our pass rush.

quote:

Originally posted by PackerHawk:

quote:

Originally posted by PackingSense:
The Packers need to do something creative to fix the pass rush. It will be the Achille's heel that will kill the season in the end if it is not fixed.

Oh boy, is this going to be the mantra this year instead of the running backs?

Yes.

The Packers rank really crappy against the pass. A lot has to do with the pass rush.

Although if we score 35+ a game.. it wont be a big issue. The offense is downright dirty. It is carrying the load bigtime.

BTW, while I don't even wanna try and predict what TT will do in the draft, if things do remain as they are I'd have to think TT will make the 2012 draft a pretty defensive heavy draft.

OLB.

DE/NT.

Safety.

CB.

All positions IMO where GB can get better depth.

quote:

Walden has shown promise against starters.

Does it still count if those starters are paid by the Chicago Bears?

In all seriousness, I have personally been a little disappointed by Walden... He simply isn't getting home enough. His run support has been A+ though and coverage just OK. I would like to see them bring So'oto in on third downs and let him have at it.

I don't see the harm in this, save for maybe getting exposed to a draw or screen that a more experienced player would recognize.

Did you read McGinn's article today on how atrocious the Packer's pass defense has become? They are on pace for historic franchise lows in defense - worse than the Bart Starr / Lynn Dickey 1983 squad. This is why the pass rush mantra for this season matters...

"One quarter of the way into the season, the Packers have allowed 1,627 yards, putting them on pace to give up 6,508 yards. How abominable is that?

Well, the NFL record of 6,793 yards was set by the Baltimore Colts of 1981, who went 2-14 under coach Mike McCormack. At 6,508, the Packers would nudge in front of second-place Detroit, which didn't win a game under coach Rod Marinelli in 2008 while allowing 6,470 yards.

The Packers' club record for yards allowed was 6,403, set by the high-scoring 1983 team that went 8-8 with a sieve for a defense and ultimately got Bart Starr fired. That unit ranks No. 3 on the NFL's all-time list.

Almost all of the damage, of course, has come through the air. If this keeps up, the Packers will have a record they can call all their own."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...-down-130955408.html

I wouldn't care if they throw for 10,000 yards this season, we're averaging more points than we're giving up. That is what is important. If they were giving up 1627 yards passing and were 32nd in points allowed, then I would be worried, but they're 18th in points allowed...one of those games was against a team averaging 31 points per game (New Orleans). We're also tied for 1st in turnovers.

The Patriots have given up more passing yards than anyone in football and they are towards the bottom in completion percentage against.

Yet there seems to be a lack of national talk that their season is ready to collapse.

Collins is out, Tramon has missed a game, Zombo hasn't played, neither has Neal. The defense is fighting to hold it together until they get some bodies back. GB is second in the NFL against the run, so teams are going to throw, and throw, and throw. The offense is more than capaple of handling things while the D gets things figured out.

so opposing teams have to pass more against the two highest scoring teams in football..

didn't see that coming

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
so opposing teams have to pass more against the two highest scoring teams in football..

didn't see that coming

Imagine that.

quote:

Originally posted by Stevie:
Hawk, remember 2009 and the frustration of having narrow leads or a tie with 4-5 minutes left

Yep. This is 2011 and the team is 4-0. When the defense actually starts losing games then I'll join in the outrage. For now the offense is on a team record setting pace for points (again, it's not 2009) so I'm having trouble getting worked up over the defense.

quote:

Originally posted by Stevie:
By the way, last year we solved the problem of the running backs when Starks stepped up and did the job.

Actually, aside from the Eagles game, the running game didn't change much in the playoffs with Starks in there. We all felt better about the running game and the media talked Starks up a lot but it was Rodgers, the receivers and the defense that took the team to the title.

I do think once Neal and Zombo are back in the mix things will get a little better. They might not be a top 5 defense like last year but they won't need to be nearly as good with the way the offense is playing. Add in some better KO and punt returns and both phases of this team look superior to 2010.

So'oto is a nice story and good developmental player. When he's ready to play he will play. If that's next week or in the 2nd half of the season that's fine with me. If there is one thing this coaching staff does not do it's panic. 4-0 is no time for panic.

Tramon Williams is another player to watch. He hasn't been the same the last 2 weeks. I'm hoping it's due to his shoulder and once it's healed, he'll be a pro bowl CB again. But he's looked pretty average thus far.

I thought So'oto did a good job in the last pre-season game too, but then I remembered it was against a team that is now 1-3 and lucky to be that.

Count me in the group that would like to see him play some time this season to see what he has. What is the harm in having him play in a 2nd half blowout situation (like vs. Denver) to see if he can see if he can do it? I think he was active yesterday, but I don't think I saw him out there.

It would be nice to avoid a situation where the Pack spends the 32nd pick in the 2012 draft on a small DE from Florida State (that likes to ride the stationary bike) when there could be a potential gem already on the roster.

Jamal Reynolds-KGB ring a bell?

quote:

Originally posted by Koopla Krash:
Count me in the group that would like to see him play some time this season to see what he has. What is the harm in having him play in a 2nd half blowout situation (like vs. Denver) to see if he can see if he can do it? I think he was active yesterday, but I don't think I saw him out there.

Patience. So'oto has been active for 1 game due to injury and probably hasn't practiced much since week 1. He'll get his chance, he just needs to stay healthy and practice well.

He just needs to not hurt himself in the weight room being stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by ammo:
I thought So'oto did a good job in the last pre-season game too, but then I remembered it was against a team that is now 1-3 and lucky to be that.

Don't forget the Colts

This same subject seems to come up every year and usually around the 5th game
the D seems to find itself. I think it may be a bit longer this year due to the lack of OTAs, sure hope so.

I have it on good authority that Walden is a better rusher than Zombo and So'oto combined.

Across the league defenses are struggling, some more than others. No OTAs, mini-camps, and limited hitting in TC = poor fundamentals up to this point, like tackling.

IMO Blitzes are all about timing. We are a blitzing defense. I think it is just a matter of getting that timing worked out. I predict they will get better and better at it as the season goes on.

I think there are a lot of reasons for the limited pass rush to date and many have been suggested already

We also have to keep in mind that the offenses we have played all had the opportunity to study the World Champions in the offseason and they all had the benefit of watching how Philly, Atlanta, Chicago, Pittsburgh and then New Orleans attacked this defense.

Sean Payton and the other OCs spent a lot of time scheming on the Packers and then his work was copied by others

GB has the players and coaches to adapt, and they will soon enough

While I, too, would enjoy seeing So'Oto play, I doubt the Packers coaching staff believes they need to see him play. The Packers always try to develop their young players. They also know that they need more opposite Clay Matthews. So you have to figure putting So'Oto in has occurred the Packers. And yet, they waited until garbage time to give him a chance. I can't imagine they did that to spite his fans. Obviously they don't think he's ready.

These are the same coaches that handed jobs to Shields and Burnett last year. When they believe So'Oto is ready, they will give him his chance.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzzard:
This same subject seems to come up every year and usually around the 5th game
the D seems to find itself. I think it may be a bit longer this year due to the lack of OTAs, sure hope so.

And, to be honest, Dom's D never gives anything away unless it has to.

Look at the Raji pick in the NFC championship game. 1st and ONLY time that D play ever got called all year.

You think Dom is going to show a hand right now?!?!

Heh.

Just keep it up Pack!!

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
so opposing teams have to pass more against the two highest scoring teams in football..

didn't see that coming

Imagine that.

Don't most teams run when they're behind by 20 points?

quote:

Originally posted by Brak:
I have it on good authority that Walden is a better rusher than Zombo and So'oto combined.

Walden is a better OLB than Zombo and So'oto combined.

Dude can cover, rush the passer and stop the run.

MARK IT DOWN !

I was really excited about Walden coming into the year, but he has been nearly invisible with the pass rush this far. I can't imagine So Oto or Zombo would have played this bad. I hope he proves me wrong, but he looks VERY mediocre to date in 2011.

It seems the only move Walden has is to bull rush

I can't remember who the author was, but there was an article during training camp in either the JS or Press Gazette that said Walden was the more physical player, but that Zombo was superior as a pass rusher