@Goalline posted:This is a plus. Hopefully, they throw Jake Hanson away.
Or it means that Bak and Jenkins are not close to playing 
@michiganjoe posted:Overall game impressions from Herman. His bottom line: biggest issue was extremely poor OL play (across the board).
I don't know why this was a surprise to anyone. All we heard from reports from training camp were that the Packers #1 D front was dominating. When we had joint practices with the Saints, same thing, their D front won. KC played their starters on two series & again our o-line got manhandled. The only time they have held up in preseason games was vs. back ups. ANY team in the NFL that has to play with 2 backups playing in place of 2 pro bowl o-lineman is going to struggle.
I read somewhere that Caleb will be the tallest player to ever play in the NFL if he cracks the starting line up !!!!
I don't understand what they saw in Hanson to begin with. It's almost as if they attempted to wish it to be true instead of believing what we all could see.
I'm surprised that there hasn't been a 6'9" Tight end at some point, red zone guy.
Would not be surprised if Caleb Jones is coming up Xpt and FG attempts. LaFleur and B said the line was still a little leaky Jones is a big guy to get around or go through. Might help on goal line as well (not that Goalline).
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:I'm surprised that there hasn't been a 6'9" Tight end at some point, red zone guy.
@The Grinder posted:I read somewhere that Caleb will be the tallest player to ever play in the NFL if he cracks the starting line up !!!!
Don't know if there are others, but this old-timer recalls Morris Stroud who was a 6'10" TE for the Chiefs in the early 70s and whose forte was ... blocking kicks.
Calib gets signed from the PS. I hope it means Hanson is gone. But most likely it’s Barnes on IR.
Reawatched the game... OL is in shambles. Until the boys get back it should be:
Yosh
JRJ
Meyers
Tom
Jones
Hansen and Newman are not the answer. I understand not everyone can be all pro, but you will have a tough time beating anyone with those two starting. Jones might struggle against top pass rushers but having those 2 in will go a long way with the ground game. That will open up the PA that they love to do so much.
Also, A Jones needs more touches. He is your most explosive weapon and should be getting no less than a combined 20 touches a game.
Defense wasn't as bad as it looked. Some busted coverages and Jefferson is a stud. Bad combo.
I agree on the OL BrainDed. Tom needs to be out there.
@BrainDed posted:Defense wasn't as bad as it looked. Some busted coverages and Jefferson is a stud. Bad combo.
I felt the same way. It wasn’t a good performance, but the Pack did themselves no favors with the amount of mental errors.
I also tend to think teams like the Vikes that have an excellent RB and excellent WRs are a tougher matchup for the Packers D than most. That skill trio of Jefferson, Cook, and Thielen is one of the best set of skill guys you will ever see and they will make you pay if you don’t play smart and consistently assignment sure football.
I think things will be different for the rematch in January but kudos to the Vikings new coaches and new offense for this game. They out physicaled and out schemed the Pack. Let’s hope the Pack learned something and will have a better plan for the rematch in the final weeks of the regular season.
@BrainDed posted:.........
Defense wasn't as bad as it looked. Some busted coverages and Jefferson is a stud. Bad combo.
Agreed. I know it's meaningless to state this because it didn't happen, but IF Watson catches the ball, and IF they convert on 4th and goal, it's a whole different ball game......2 big negatives that impacted the game tremendously early on.
@BrainDed posted:I don't understand what they saw in Hanson to begin with. It's almost as if they attempted to wish it to be true instead of believing what we all could see.
This offensive line staff does that a lot. Really frustrating.
One of the biggest coaching blunders: not going mano y mano Jaire vs. Justin.
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:I'm surprised that there hasn't been a 6'9" Tight end at some point, red zone guy.
Harold Carmichael was just that guy. 6'8" Hall of Fame TE for the Eagles. 79 touchdown receptions in his career.
https://www.pro-football-refer...ayers/C/CarmHa00.htm
Julius Peppers could have easily done this as well, but those types of athletes tend to be worth more as edge rushers.
I always thought Carmichael was a WR. Wonder how much TE he actually played.
@GratefulPack posted:Or it means that Bak and Jenkins are not close to playing
If Bakh isn't ready 21 months after his ACL, and 9 months after playing 20 snaps, then WTF is going on with him?
@PackLandVA posted:I always thought Carmichael was a WR. Wonder how much TE he actually played.
Looks like he played nine games at TE in his rookie season, the next season they put him at WR.
@BrainDed posted:I don't understand what they saw in Hanson to begin with. It's almost as if they attempted to wish it to be true instead of believing what we all could see.
He was a 6th round pick. He had athletic deficiencies to begin with which is why he was a 6th round pick. You can get by with these types of guys if he's lining up between Myers and Bakh or Jenkins, but not when he's got Newman on his other side.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/...43-8a03-3cf5355d3153
I'm not sure what the threshold for athletic measurables is to really succeed as an OL (especially a guard) in the NFL, but no matter what you do technique wise with Hanson, he's never going to be good enough unless he's lining up between really good lineman and you can hide him. Newman and him side-by-side is the type of things defensive coordinators and pass rushers salivate about.
Here's the guys I would rate as all-pro level or close to it at least for a season or two over the last couple of decades for Green Bay. You can get them from all rounds, so I'm not sure what determines success or failure.
Bulaga, 1st
Clifton, 2nd
Jenkins, 2nd
Wahle, 2nd
Colledge, 2nd
Myers, 2nd
Flanagan, 3rd
Bahk, 4th
Sitton, 4th
TJ Lang, 4th
Linsley, 5th
Rivera, 6th
Tauscher, 7th
Wells, 7th
@D J posted:Looks like he played nine games at TE in his rookie season, the next season they put him at WR.
If he played today, he'd probably average 20 TDs a year. I don't know how you would cover him on an end zone fade route or a lob if you couldn't physically try to beat the crap out of him.
I guess the Packers tallest TE recently was Bubba Franks at 6'6". He was a decent red zone target, but limited by the fact his vertical leap seemed to be about 6 inches.
@Pakrz posted:As bad as GB looked, it’s a different game if Watson catches the TD pass and Dillon gets into the EZ on 4th down. Two plays… on the road in a very difficult place to play.
R-E-L-A-X
It remains the House of Horrors. Hate playing there.
@Goalline posted:This is a plus. Hopefully, they throw Jake Hanson away.
Put that fucker in the backfield to block for 3rd and 1 at the goalline. This is good to hear, I thought he had a decent camp.
@Goalline posted:They aren't. Let's not fool ourselves.
Ufortunately, that's what it looks like. More concerned about Bakh ever being able to come back at this point.
@BrainDed posted:I don't understand what they saw in Hanson to begin with. It's almost as if they attempted to wish it to be true instead of believing what we all could see.
He's no good without his brother.
@SteveLuke posted:Top 5 offense
1. TE Josiah Deguara: 79.9
2. RB A.J. Dillon: 76.7
3. LT Yosh Nijman: 71.0
4. RB Aaron Jones: 68.5
5. WR Romeo Doubs: 68.2Surprised by Degaura, apparently he blocked better than I thought. Not surprised by Dillon, Nijman, or Jones.
Also pleasantly surprised by Romeo. Nice job.
Bottom 5 offense
1. OL Zach Tom: 43.2
2. RG Jake Hanson: 44.4
3. WR Christian Watson: 45.1
4. LG Jon Runyan Jr: 47.6
5. C Josh Myers: 55.7Extremely surprised by Tom, thought he blocked for the run pretty well, but maybe not. Not surprised by Hanson or Watson.
That Tom, Hanson, Runyan, and Myers were among the worst offensive performers while playing against a mediocre at best Vikings interior line does not exactly bode well for the interior offensive line going forward.
I may have heard incorrectly, but I swear the pbp announcer say the Packers moved Myers to RG, and had Hanson at C.
It didn't make sense at the time (and doesn't today), but some of the lineups of the OL haven't made any sense, either.
I'll also state that the Tom grade is off by quite a bit. He wasn't perfect, but I didn't see any glaring problems. As matter of fact, he and Nijman looked fairly formidable after he came into the game.
One last point about the OL:
I remember last year that they started off a little shaky, to say the least, but became pretty solid by mid-year and carried that through the end of the season.
It's mostly the same guys this year, and they should be performing at a higher level than what they have through TC/PS and the opening game.
Don't know if Stenavich's new role is a factor in that (it shouldn't, IMO), but it's clear that Tom should be starting.
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:I'm surprised that there hasn't been a 6'9" Tight end at some point, red zone guy.
Johnny Z will take this one.
@Harry Manback posted:Ufortunately, that's what it looks like. More concerned about Bakh ever being able to come back at this point.
I guess what gives me at least some hope he comes back is they haven’t put Bakh on any sort of long term injury list yet. Maybe they’re just hoping for a miracle, but they must have some hope if they haven’t pulled the plug just yet.
One thing that maybe factors in a little is that the season is so damn long with 17 games plus playoffs. Maybe they think he could give them a solid 6-8 games but 17 is out of the question? Who knows, I’ll just hope for the best at this point.
"aybe they think he could give them a solid 6-8 games but 17 is out of the question? Who knows, I’ll just hope for the best at this point."
Then why activate him from PUP? They gotta be thinking he plays full time in the next couple weeks.
I think we need Jenkins more. Yosh is serviceable if not above avg. We need to get Hanson and Newman out of their ASAP. With Jenkins back, if Jones works out, you could go:
Yosh, Jenks, Meyers, JRJ, Jones.
Then when Bahk comes back Yosh is your swing tackle and Newman the first interior guy off the bench. If he doesn't come back, and Jones plays like he did in PreSeason, you can win with that.
@YATittle posted:One of the biggest coaching blunders: not going mano y mano Jaire vs. Justin.
Yeah, I understand you can't play man coverage the whole game, but why can't we have Jaire on man coverage and mix up the rest?
@Harry Manback posted:Put that fucker in the backfield to block for 3rd and 1 at the goalline. This is good to hear, I thought he had a decent camp.
Yeah, until Tschmack smears him for the inability to make up for all the guys on the line missing their blocks.
@Goalline posted:Yeah, until Tschmack smears him for the inability to make up for all the guys on the line missing their blocks.
Jones can just scoop those guys up in each arm and run them at the defense.
@MichiganPacker posted:Harold Carmichael was just that guy. 6'8" Hall of Fame TE for the Eagles. 79 touchdown receptions in his career.
https://www.pro-football-refer...ayers/C/CarmHa00.htm
Julius Peppers could have easily done this as well, but those types of athletes tend to be worth more as edge rushers.
Howard Cosell called him “the angular one”
Ummm, Jones is no savior (yet). Odds are he’ll struggle, at least at times, against better players than what he saw in camp. He may be better than this past weeks starter. But he’s got a lot to show against better talent before he’s anything more than a “see if works” guy.
It was a disappointing result but I thought they'd struggle. This is a new Vikings team, with new schemes on offense and defense. There's no film available other than generic preseason sets. The Packers were guessing in their preparation and, predictably, guessed wrong in several ways. JJ ran more out of motion Sunday than he did all last year and it clearly confused the secondary. Offensively, it looked like the Vikings knew what was coming in several cases Would having two former defensive Packers players have anything to do with that?
The D gave up 6 points in the 2nd half, 3 on a short field. I'll take that any week.
My only concerns are the O-line and AR's leadership. He should know by now that bad stuff happens to derail plans. Players know when they eff up. It's ARs job to get them past the bad play to the next, good one. Sulking, glowering doesn't do it.
Sign OBJ. I'm willing to put up with his antics, I don't give a fuck about them [the antics] if he can help.
I'm so tired of 30 seasons with Favre and Rodgers and just 3 SB appearances.
@fightphoe93 posted:I guess what gives me at least some hope he comes back is they haven’t put Bakh on any sort of long term injury list yet. Maybe they’re just hoping for a miracle, but they must have some hope if they haven’t pulled the plug just yet.
One thing that maybe factors in a little is that the season is so damn long with 17 games plus playoffs. Maybe they think he could give them a solid 6-8 games but 17 is out of the question? Who knows, I’ll just hope for the best at this point.
I will too. Yet it reminds me a lot of what went on at the end of last season. Perhaps they are back to draining the knee. It may look and feel good until he practices and then it flairs up again.