Pos / Negs - Debacle in San Francisco

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Thought ZaDarius Smith had a good game.

Learned a lot about how good the Packers really are.

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What we learned about the Packers isn't good.

Bottom line: one team is very good and the other is pretty average. 

That was quite the reality check. I sorta had a hunch we might have had a few weaknesses exposed, but this one of the most decisive dismantlings I’ve seen in the NFL ever. I think these two teams could meet twenty times without a Packer victory.

if there is any plus, it is that we still have a good chance of making the playoffs, as unprepared as we are.

Bring on the Giants.

Positive fans are going to point out that it was only one game.  Negative fans are going to plan the death of LaFluffer's dog.  The reality is somewhere in the middle. 

The truth is that a healthy Packer team coming off a bye got their ass whipped by a much better football team.  GB just isn't there yet. 

Sure, the Packers can finish at 13-3 but I think the ceiling is probably closer to 12-4 or maybe even 11-5.  There's just a too many holes.  I don't see GB going on the road and beating SF, Seattle or NO in the playoffs.  

There's no sense in listing anything positive or negative.  It all sucked.

Mentor schooled his protege, not so surprising.

Negs

see above posts

Positives

D kept us in game early into 2nd quarter, didn't give up any 3rd downs until the 4th.

Savage returned after injury.

Umm...

The only positive I can take out of this game is that there can no longer be any denial among the powers in charge of the Packers, Gute/MLF/Pettine, that the team needs:

a new TE, another starting WR, 1 or 2 defensive linemen to replace the current stiffs, an inside linebacker not named Blake Martinez, and something to be done about the special teams units royally sucking yet again.

49'ers...absolute juggernaut. Impossible to beat. Everyone might as well just bow down & salute the Champ. 

Time for the other 31 teams to get to work & try & catch up.

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Horrendous play calling and a glaring lack of experience in head coaching (pro tip Gute--don't try to copy the Rams because they had one good season with a young coach);

Not Playoffs contenders and exposed on prime time;

Likely #6 seed playing at Minnesota in the Wild Card round;

12 is another year older, and the organization is about out of time to build a team around him to get to another Super Bowl--especially since he can't simply carry the team with miracles anymore;

The ghosts of the close-minded front offense and multiple inept drafts continue to haunt;

Bulaga injury makes edge rushers even more of a problem, most notably in at least 2 division games;

King can't cover a slow tight end with a broken foot, among his many other weaknesses.

Boris posted:

49'ers...absolute juggernaut. Impossible to beat. Everyone might as well just bow down & salute the Champ. 

Time for the other 31 teams to get to work & try & catch up.

I don't know about any of the other teams but I assure you this Packer team can't beat them.  The defense can't hold up on any level.  Rodgers, as "elite" as he is, continues to see ghosts and hangs onto the football too long. The offensive line can't match up with SF's defensive line.  The ST's is putrid.  

Christ, that wasn't even a game.  GB got bitch-slapped up and down the field right after a fucking bye week and being as healthy as they've been at this point in the season in years.  

I think they could beat them.   Everything went wrong and any time they did get a little momentum something went wrong again.

- 1st drive on O Adams penalty followed by fumble.

- 2nd drive on O phantom penalty kills drive.  Think it was the block in back,

- 2nd drive on D, phantom hands to face penalty leads to 3.  Had em stopped. 

- The Graham catch that was ruled a drop takes points away.

- Going for it on 4th instead of taking 3 when we were only down 10 killed momentum 

They kicked our ass, but we certainly didn’t give them our best.  

Boris posted:

49'ers...absolute juggernaut. Impossible to beat. Everyone might as well just bow down & salute the Champ. 

Time for the other 31 teams to get to work & try & catch up.

Wait a sec, didn't you recently say the two best teams in the league are the Packers and Ravens?

(Admittedly, that was a real knee-slapper!)

Positives:

The Packers don't go to California again during the regular season and thank god this game is over and I won't speak of it again

The schedule gets more manageable

Negatives?  Bulaga just can't stay healthy

The first 4th down call.  The SF DL is eating up our offensive line and you call a play out of MM playbook.  A slow developing run play?  

I am just going to move on to Giants week and forget about this one all together

------ Adams stupid penalty.  Took away momentum on the opening drive.

Get rid of Allison. He is just a guy and a tease.

MVS disappears again. Move on. 

What has happened to Opie Whizbanger? 

I agree it’s time to move on with Allison. I know A Rod says good things about him in practice but he’s the least effective #2 WR in the league. 

I’m willing to cut MVS some slack because he’s their only legit deep threat and not sure he’s totally healthy. 

Inside linebacker and TE is a mess and this OL cannot be trusted when facing good DL. 

Seems a little odd that we are worked up about a team that’s 8-3 and realistically this team could finish 12-4 but they just don’t seem to be in the same class as SF and Seattle and New Orleans and not sure they are better than MN.   

It was clear that this game was not the “here’s where we take all of their best attributes and use it against them” game plan. That said, the physical domination is troubling since it has happened 2 of 3 weeks.

Buck and Aikman may have been surprised by Bulaga’s injury, but Packers fans shouldn’t be. it’s an annual ritual- he was an injury risk from the moment camp started. 

This game was not the end of the season, as disappointing as it was. 4 of their last 5 games are against contenders, while the Packers get 4 of 5 games against bad teams. 12-4/13-3 is right there for the taking. They’re still right in this to play in Lambeau in January. Start playing better ball and it’s all there. 

A week off. All 53 healthy. 2 weeks to prepare & that's what we get. 

The early shit that happened with the refs was the exact reason I stopped watching football.

Earlier in the day the Cowboys were completely robbed of a chance vs. Pat's as a phantom "tripping" call was flagged.

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement of epic proportions. Wanted to see a good football game with my favorite team. Instead....we get that shit. 

The Packers probably aren't going 12-4 either. The Redskins & Giants get paid too. You'll see.

10-6 or 11-5 is a distinct possibility. Especially with Bulaga out.

Maybe this will be like 2016 when Dallas came to GB during the regular season and gave the Pack a similar whuppin.' Only to find the Pack winning in big D in January,

What gets me is I didn't see any offensive plan in place to exploit that Niner speed and aggressiveness. Am I missing it?

The packers do not have enough horses. They are big enough. They aren't fast enough. They don't have enough good skill position players.

The obvious differences in the 9ers and Packers was size, speed and the fact that SF had more dynamic players on the edge.

Besides Clark GB needs DL. Lowry is staying at a pretty good contract. He's a backup type guy IMO. The rest are mostly invisible. If they want guys like that they need to get some behemoths who just clog everything up. I'm still pissed they let Lawrence Guy walk after drafting him. He's the type of guy who fucks up offenses by being tough to move.

GB needs ILBs who can run. Martinez cannot cover and I don't think he has any feel for the passing game. No idea what is up with Burks. 

GB needs something at TE. Graham cannot run. Lewis is what he is. The other guys don't get a shot. 

GB needs a 3rd RB. You have to have 3 in the NFL and they just don't do that for some reason. Is Williams any good? I think they need that speed guy. Jones is quick but he isn't really fast. 

GB needs WRs with speed AND quickness. Adams is a hell of a WR but what else do they have? Apparently no one who can get open.

WTF happened to the punter? He has been helacious for the past month. 

And FFS figure out how to return a damn punt. They had one really good opportunity on the first return but on guy beat two and made a tackle int he open field when the returner has to make that guy miss or simply out run him.

The OL needs better players. I am not a Linsley fan and still feel bad that GB chose him over Tretter. I think Turner is soft and weak for a G. Bulaga has played very good ball this year but he's long in the tooth. Bahk is not as good as in the past. Maybe he reads too many press clippings? Love the rookie. Except for maybe Bulaga whose contract is up after this year, all the rest are coming back next year.

They need SPEED and size not a roster of Ted Thompson-like overachievers.

I just never got the sense we were as good as our record. I was hopeful but they have a ways to go. Ugly game all around 

The Packers will go as far as their pass rush and their ability to protect Rodgers allow. When they can’t do the latter they get embarrassed. 

Signing the Smiths allowed them to do the former which is why they are a likely playoff team. 

Difference in roster talent really doesn't explain what we saw last night. Less talented teams are competitive all the time and the Packers simply haven't been two of the last three games. That's on the coaching staff.

Make Allison inactive and put Grant out there. Can’t be worse.

In an attempt to be a realist as opposed to an optimist/pessimist I'll say that this team has a better record than I thought they would at the beginning of the season but they still have some major holes to fill on both sides of the ball.  It's difficult to maintain perspective when you start out 7-1.   If this team was 5-6 and then ran the table to close out the season we'd all be excited for 2020 and anxiously awaiting the draft/FA to see if we could get that one or two players that put us over the top.  

The complete ass whipping that we received is on MLF.  However, in his defense, it would be expected that a first time head coach is going to have some growing pains.  It is true that our offense has no real identity.  Previously (when they won) I lauded MLF as being able to adjust and use other players to get the job done. As expected, other teams have adjusted.  Unfortunately, our talent at the skill positions does not allow us to take advantage of those adjustments.  

In reality, this game was the perfect storm for getting our asses kicked.  Our rookie head coach is going against a team that not only has superior talent (at some positions) after drafting relatively high for the past handful of years, but has to face a coaching staff that knows him and his scheme better than anyone. 

The realist in me says that this team has a better record than it should given their talent. Anything can happen in the playoffs but it is unlikely that we are Super Bowl quality team.  With a good draft and FA period as well as another year for the coach and team to learn/grow we are in a good spot. 

Also, as the worst holiday (in my opinion) approaches, lets all eat some dry turkey, canned cranberries and revel in the fact that we are not lions or bear fans.

You are what your record says you are. This is still one of the best teams in the league. You look at the overall NFL standings and GB is ranked 7th based on record, tie breakers, etc. Sounds about right to me. 

It's kind of funny actually, this team has a tendency in games to start hot, soften in the middle, and then finish strong. We're in Q3 of the season and softened up (3-2 in our last 5), and now I expect us to finish strong and close the season with 5 wins.  

AtTheMurph posted:

The packers do not have enough horses. They are big enough. They aren't fast enough. They don't have enough good skill position players.

 

The OL needs better players. I am not a Linsley fan and still feel bad that GB chose him over Tretter. I think Turner is soft and weak for a G. Bulaga has played very good ball this year but he's long in the tooth. Bahk is not as good as in the past. Maybe he reads too many press clippings? Love the rookie. Except for maybe Bulaga whose contract is up after this year, all the rest are coming back next year.

They need SPEED and size not a roster of Ted Thompson-like overachievers.

I totally agree they need better skill position players and I think we all agreed this last off season that Gute hit the defensive side of the ball hard and will need to do that with skill position players on offense this off season.

I am not as down on the OL as many are.  IMHO I think they do a great job but the problem is that without play makers to get open they have to try and contain a DL like San Frans for much longer than they should have to on pass plays.  Without a decent TE or any receivers that can get open they will look bad because they will be giving up coverage sacks. 

LaFleur was right that the Pack was outcoached.  Certainly, the 49ers would know tendencies and how to stop the Packers offense.  It was painful to watch the offense - the Packers could not push the ball down the field.   The playcalling choices are just mind-boggling.  Why is Jamal Williams getting so many snaps ahead of Aaron Jones?  If Tonyan is finally active (ahead of Sternberger), why is he not getting opportunities (a TE screen to Lewis?!).  Allison just does not have it.  Drops, no speed.  He is a willing blocker, but that's it.  He can't continue to be a No. 2.

The offensive scheme is still a work in progress, but I feel there a bit too much of the old MM scheme that Aaron likes and isn't effective (ton of shotgun spread).  The excuses of getting behind in down and distance is tough, yes, but only if you're always dinking and dunking. 

After watching the offense literally go backwards for the second straight series early in the game, I had to turn it off to take care of two puking toddlers.  I didn't think they understood the game yet but apparently they do.

What struck me the most about SF was their speed on D.  It may not show up on the their players' 40 times (maybe it does, I don't care to look it up) but it looked like 1. their DL got push immediately at the snap and 2. their second and third level tacklers were on the scene too quickly to allow much after a hand off or a catch.

I've read a few times where its stated that LaFluffer was at a disadvantage because the SF coaching staff was so familiar with what GB was going to do on offense.  True enough... but doesn't that go both ways?  

Familiarity sounds like a convenient excuse. MLF and Pettine were outcoached because they were outcoached.

Pettine does seem to keep getting a free pass.  How many more resources do we have to pour into the D before it gets better?  Their biggest success this year has been the Smiths.  How much of their success is due to Pettine and how much is them just ballin'?

I'm going with the Smith brothers are just ballin. 

I think Pettine gets a pass because that side of the ball has improved so much.  Sure they still give up big chunks of yards and can't cover the TE but we have to admit they are flat out much better.  The angry bald man just needs a couple of more pieces (ILB especially) and he will be fine.  Can he be better absolutely he can I really think he will get there.

- Linsley got beat like a rented mule...C is now a position of need in the draft.
- We have no depth at RT
- Special Teams are basically Slocum-Zook era nonsense. I am not talking about JK's poor punts...I am talking about punt protection, punt coverage, PR and KR.
- WR beyond #17 is pedestrian on their best day.

+ Alex Light > Jason Spriggs
+ Smiff Bros (Wew)

I just don't see a scrappy team attitude on either side of the ball.

To be fair to Pettine IRT the 49ers game, the defense was on their heels 1.5 minutes into the game (and maybe the season in some games). They kept getting put in shitty situations by the offense and punter early and responded by only allowing 2 FGs after the gimme TD to start the game. Once SF realized Rodgers had closed up shop early, they put their foot on the gas and and took a ton of chances. I'm unhappy with the point total obviously, but you have to have some context for the defense. They got the job done early and looked it was going to be a defensive battle, but what can you do when you're taking chances to put pressure on and the offense is taking more chances to burn you? 

+ DVR’d game don’t have to watch it 

+ Vikings fans all giddy on their way to lose their 5th Super Bowl 

Pakrz posted:

I've read a few times where its stated that LaFluffer was at a disadvantage because the SF coaching staff was so familiar with what GB was going to do on offense.  True enough... but doesn't that go both ways?  

I think that plays a part of it, certainly I think it gives the players a little more confidence that their coach is making the right calls. Don't forget, Shannahan was Pettine's OC in Cleveland, lot of familiarity there as well. To me though, that's a perfect opportunity to distinguish yourself from your mentor and show things you know they haven't seen. MLF hasn't been with Shanny for several years, I would hope he developed his own preferences and tendencies and scheme in that time. You look at guys like Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, Mike Shanny, etc. coming from Bill Walsh, they all developed their own brand of the same thing. If I had one criticism about MLF it's that maybe he's gone a little too hard in the partnership with Rodgers (which is crazy criticism considering the thought process when he was hired!) and not enough on installing HIS system and identity. This still looks very much like AR's offense the majority of the time. 

13X posted:

I just never got the sense we were as good as our record. I was hopeful but they have a ways to go. Ugly game all around 

The record is certainly better than the talent on the roster.

Gutey is probably one of the most surprised by the 8-3 record.

I just hope he does not get fooled into thinking we are just a player or two away because that is just not the case.

Found out they are not a top 5 team (SEA, SF, NO, BAL, and NE are), but  in the 6-12 range.  Good enough, but not elite.  Not the dregs of the league, but not elite.  We'll find out a lot about SF in the next three weeks with their gauntlet and little bit about who they play.

For the Packers to beat any of the top 5, it's clear Rodgers will have to be Rodgers circa 2011-15 and have games at a very high level.

He's not playing that way now.