Positives and Negatives to the Game

I think that's fair. I for one am glad they don't play the Saints again. Hopefully if they do, it's in Lambeau in 10 below for the right to play in SB 41...

+Two huge stops on 4th and 1 against a pair of pro bowl guards. Seems like this team stops the run when they play a 3-4-4 but get gashed when they play the 2-4-5 nickel. Guess that's the price you pay for playing pass defense.

-Pass defense. Let's hope this is the worst it is all year because it was bad. Hopefully getting Neal, So'oto and Zombo back will help.

+Wynn played really well tonight. Only guy to get pressure not named Bloodline.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
Frog and Toad are sad.

I am not sad.

I take offense to your accusations. May Ernie deny you tonight!

Awww hell , I know he won't...

+
Cobb.
Starks.
Wells.
OL actually being very effective.

-
Tramon injury.
Tramon Injury.
tramOn inJury.
a few calls. early season for the noob refs too.

Actually. I really thought enough players stepped up. This was not the boys and girls club we were playing, it was a helluva team.

And, a helluva win!

Shields played great. He's their nickel for christ sake.

quote:

It is interesting that Rodgers threw for 3 touchdowns in 1st quarter and 0 after that. I feel that McCarthy at that point kept Finley in to help protect Rodgers as the Saints put several good licks on Rodgers in the first quarter. When Finley was no longer a passing threat the Packers became more methodical and the Saints hung around longer.

The Saints started playing 2-deep after their man on man didn't work (see 3 TD's scored in 1st quarter). You don't play man-on-man on the Green Bay WR's. You get killed if you do unless you have 3 Charles Woodson's or Tramon Williams.

quote:

Offensively the Packers could and should have scored 60+ points.

Disagree. After the Saints went 2-deep, the Packers started running the ball and slowed the game down.

What kills me about the Tramon injury is that it doesn't happen if Hawk makes his tackle.

Right, Boris. Packers were looking to eat as much clock as they could.

They were doing really well until the halfback fake that ended up a 9 yard loss as Rodgers got sacked.

In the Super Bowl the Packers burned the Steelers more than once when they played their two deep zone against Rodgers and Co. so they could easily do the same vs the Saints, No?

I still think the overiding factor for slowing the game down was getting Aaron hit less and not so much because of the defense the Saints were in. Maybe its some of both?

+ we are the only undefeated team in the league

- slocum, tw injury.

I was impressed with the O-line with regard to penalties. I think they only had 2, both by Lang for False Starts in the first half. I didn't hear the announcers really say anything other than positives, especially the interior.

Our offensive line unit could be very special. Derek Sherrod, inactive tonight, has some great film to watch.

Best case scenario, he doesn't have to play much this season, and gets to work on his technique. The lack of OTA's hurts him most of all, I think.

- Missed tackles
- Special teams let downs


+ Aaron Rodgers. Great on the field and off
+ WRs
+ Starks
+ DL
+ Playcalling...Kuhn's quick slant into the EZ
+ Cobb...get on the train cuz this guy is going to town
+ Crowd and atmosphere at Lambeau

I was shocked at how few Saints fans were at the game. They normally travel well. I think GB fans were ready for this one. One of the more electric crowds I've seen.

Very exciting game. Offence picked up where they left off from last season and for some reason I sure was missing C. Jenkins on that defence tonight.

+ Raji/Wynn/Pickett
+ Cobb (perhaps the most dynamic and exciting debut to the NFL I can remember)
+ Jarrett Bush (He's come a long way, baby)
+ McCarthy (initial game plan/play calls and adjustments)

- Starks' pass protection (Brandon Jackson will be missed because of his blitz pick-ups)
- Coverage units
- Gosh, I hope Tramon's elbow/shoulder is just a 2-4 week thing and he doesn't need surgery!

I agree, RonJr., Starks was poor in pass pro, which is especially disappointing because I believe he is clearly a better runner than Grant. If he doesn't get that fixed, he may not see the field as often (almost certainly won't). Coverage units stunk as usual, and I did notice the lack of interior pass rush, as losing CJ77 was a big loss. Lots of offense, Rodgers looked great, Jordy looked good, the O-Line, and Cobb (wow!). I thought Hawk played well, but tackling guys up high was an issue throughout the defense, Hawk included. They got really low when they absolutely needed to, though, on the final play at the GL. Losing Tramon would be sickening. The Pack beat a top team tonight, I'll take it. Our O is going to be scary good.

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
I think that's fair. I for one am glad they don't play the Saints again. Hopefully if they do, it's in Lambeau in 10 below for the right to play in SB 41...

Do you have a time machine, or do you just hate the Bores that much?

quote:

Originally posted by RonJr:
- Starks' pass protection (Brandon Jackson will be missed because of his blitz pick-ups)

+++
AR, 3 TDs, no INTs
O able to run when we had to
D stops esp in red zone were difference in game
Cobb, double whammy
1-0. Best record in NFL

---
Tackling, esp spec teams (MAY be due to truncated off-season)
Game similar to SB XLV, early lead, held on late for win. Unable to put team away, but I have to tip hat to quality of opponent.
Woodson punch
Tramon collision

+ No one is talking about dropped passes today.

+ everything, they won.
- nothing, they won. except too much ass talk in the chat room.

You don't like it when people point out that you're an ass?

The defense was not bad, the Saints have as good an offense as we do. There were many plays where we had such good coverage that Brees just flat out couldn't find someone. A couple of those were sacks and a couple he managed to find someone, but a big part of that is how good of a QB he is. Not saying the D was perfect, they made a lot of mistakes, bad angles, missed tackles, poor coverage, but overall I would say holding the Saints to 20 points is pretty impressive (their other 7 was on a punt return), especially considering what amazing field position the Saints had the whole game.

Positives:
+ Rodgers almost perfect. 132 QB rating in probably the biggest game of the season?! The guy is the best QB in the NFL.

+ OLine far exceeded expectations. Lang had some first year starter mistakes, but I thought they were exceptional. Scott Wells played at an All-Pro level.

+ Cobb looks like a special player...even though he disobeyed his coach.

+ DLine looked really good. Wynn showed a lot of improvement as a pass rusher and run stopper. He and Neal will be a solid tandem.

+ Starks looked REALLY good.

NegativeS:

- Obviously the coverage units were a big problem. TT has given Slocum a slew of theoretically good ST players and they still suck. I give Sproles a lot credit because he's a special returner, but he made it look easy.

- Hawk and Bishop missed a lot of plays. They made a lot of good plays also, but they missed some easy ones. Fundamentals.

- Lack of pass rush. We got 2 or 3 sacks, but Brees had a ton of time usually. The Saints have a fantastic interior and they did a good job containing CM3, but we missed Cullen Jenkins on the other end reeking havoc. Neal will be a big boost.

- Disappointed I saw nothing from James Jones, CJ Wilson, DJ Williams and Howard Green. I know Green and Wilson are primarily run stoppers and we were in Nickel mostly, but CJ Wilson needs to take the next step as a pass rusher so he can rotate in and Raji doesn't have to play 80 snaps or whatever. I don't know why Jones wasn't on the field hardly. I understand there not being enough balls to go around and maybe he had some injury, but he didn't contribute anything. I'm not super disappointed in DJ Williams, he is a rookie and he was in at FB on several plays, but I was hoping he would be able to surprise the Saints and rip off some good plays. There's still 15 games though so I'm not worried about these guys, I was just hoping to see them show something.

DJ Williams played quite a few snaps.

Mostly as a protector for AR in the passing game because the Saints can bring a lot of pressure on the QB.

Yup, I did a double take when I saw #84. Then I remembered that was Williams.

Just imagine when we start adding Alex Green and Williams to the mix. It's just stupid how many weapons Rodgers has at his disposal.

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
Packer D did not have a very good game, particularly Hawk and Shields. Hawk missed a number of tackles and was out of position a lot. Shields was burned a lot tonight.

Complete hyperbole. Hawk had more good plays than bad. I don't even get the Shield comment.

Shields was in coverage on back-to-back plays when the Saints scored their 3rd TD. Colston runs a square in and Shields was beaten for 20 or so, and then the next play he blows his jam on the edge and gives up the TD. I think that deserves criticism.

Maybe the whole secondary deserves the criticism, not just Shields. I know the Saints O is really good, but man, they were shredded and damn near gave up the game at the end. It goes down as a win, but there's some definite concern.They looked overmatched, and that's not too encouraging from the unit people were proclaiming as the best in the NFL. They gave up 400 yards and 3 TDs and damn near another at the end that could have tied the game- and it wasn't all Sproles against LBs.

But there was a good stretch where the pass rush was non-existant, too. That certainly was a factor.

First game of the season after a lockout, Shields got burned but to throw around "concern" and "room of improvement" is knee jerk. There's always room for "improvement" but that's a game to game issue. I'm sure Shields will be watching plenty of tape and hearing about technique. He's still a second year guy.

Hawk had a good game with the exception of some of those tackles, which the whole team perpetrated. He and Bishop got beat up some in the pass game but "out of position a lot" is bull****. Both Bishop and Hawk made considerable contributions in the game.

A lot of early hand wringing over the first game of the season against a powerful offensive team.

+ Cobb
+ Front 7 push especially at key moments (recall the OTHER 4th and 1)
+ o-line
+ Rodgers
+ Jordy (especially nice to see the long gain, it seemed to me much of his success last year was crossing routes where I don't think he was keyed on - fairly routine grabs)
+ Starks - he's for real, no doubt about it
+ Hawk - he was a beast, wasn't he?
+ Raji - he's a beast on almost every play, I think.

- Shields - hold onto the ball dude, especially against an offense with the firepower of the Saints
- pass defense as a hole, let's face it, it was shredded
----- ST's when playing defense - nightmare city, no confidence whatsoever


I am just gonna mention this here as do not want to open another topic. I telecommute from home and have Fresh Take (I think that is what it's called) on in the background. I don't know his name, but know he once played fullback in the NFL. He is just DESTROYING Skip Bayless. He is sharp. He knows his stuff.

+ left side of the Oline. How many times last season did we see Wells, Lang, and Cliffy 5 yards downfield? Almost zero, yet they were there last night on runs to their side looking for linebackers to destroy. (A little - to Lang for the false starts, but he made up for it later.)
+ DD. Tied with Lofton for most yards and his sky jump for the onside kick was absolutely beautiful.
+ Rodgers. It's his neighborhood!
+ Cobb.

BTW, if you heard Schlereth on after the game, he totally trashed NO's Shaun Rogers on Kuhn's TD when Rogers was slid backwards 5 yards into the EZ by Lang and Clifton. He said that Rogers should tell someone he was retired if he was going to play like that. Schlereth busted him big time!

It's great to get the first game out of the way on a winning note!

Bayless is usually clueless. A excellent example of a media tool imo.

Okay, I've been pretty positive. Now for a couple of
doubts.

- Why was Finley unstoppable in the first half and invisible inthe second
half.
- James Jones. 1 catch, right? What's the deal with him?
- Starks has to pick up the blitz and protect Rogers better, regardless of
his running skills.

-Woody. Come on, man, you're now a leader of this team. Set the example! Don't go slugging guys and risk an ejection.

-Conservative play calling at the end. We have the most potent offense in football. Let Aaron throw the ball for a first down until we can kneel down and run out the clock. I hate the uber-conservative calls there.

quote:

Originally posted by Fandame:
BTW, if you heard Schlereth on after the game, he totally trashed NO's Shaun Rogers on Kuhn's TD when Rogers was slid backwards 5 yards into the EZ by Lang and Clifton. He said that Rogers should tell someone he was retired if he was going to play like that. Schlereth busted him big time!

I know some Lions fans, and they are glad he is gone. Notorious for taking plays off, even back when he was good.

One other negative. As well as the Saints moved the ball on our secondary, you can bet other teams are going to study that film thoroughly. Dom is going to have to come up with some new wrinkles. Thankfully, he's pretty good at that!

Of course, special team coaches will look at the film too, but we already knew we pretty much suck on kick/punt coverage.

quote:

There were many plays where we had such good coverage that Brees just flat out couldn't find someone. A couple of those were sacks and a couple he managed to find someone, but a big part of that is how good of a QB he is.

Excellent point. I noticed that too. Coverage sacks.

Shields had some rough plays and teams will continue to pick on him simply because he's the weak link in the backfield. That's not a bad situation when Sam Shields is your weakest link. He's going to have growing pains. Remember how many plays Tramon gave up before late 09 and 2010? He played great last year but you can't expect him to be Tramon or Woodsen in his 2nd year of playing the position. Give him a break and be prepared to wait for his development.

The Saints were also without thier #3 WR last night. Other teams can study the tape all they want in looking for ways to beat our D but NOBODY else in the league has the offensive firepower NO has. Except GB.

If we see them again in January they may have their #3 WR back and Will Smith on the DL so that game would still be a push.

Overall excellent way to celebrate last season and kickoff the new one.

As far as criticism towards the Secondary goes, let's keep in mind that we're NOT going to see a passing game that good again this season...even San Diego and Atlanta don't have the quality depth across the board on offense that New Orleans has. New Orleans is a really good team and Drew Brees is a really good QB. Brees attacked the weak link at CB, Shields. It wasn't because Shields was playing poorly, he had as many good plays as bad, but they weren't going to throw at Tramon or Wood. As a whole, I think our Secondary did a good job...our pass rush needed to pressure Brees more. You can't expect Shields to cover 4 or 5 seconds.

Yes Shields did give up a couple bad plays and his technique wasn't great, but lets keep Shields in perspective. He's in year 3 of playing CB...college or pro. Year 3. And it's only his 2nd year in the NFL. He's still a work in progress.

You can't put too much into how good the D really is or isn't because of how potent the Saints' offense is.

The Saints are the type of team where you have to outscore them to beat them.

++ Exciting defensive schemes, resulting in fantastic sacks.
++ Extremely Impressive-looking opening night, (to the non-football fan, especially--who might Become fans this year).

--Pregame Snow storm out of DC.
--Hellishly Bad and Awful Clock Management as time wound down. Damb near sank it.

quote:

Originally posted by Pakrz:

The Saints are the type of team where you have to outscore them to beat them.

As opposed to the Patriots, who you can still score less against and win.

Paws:

TJ Lang - Dominated his man all night. 2 False Starts though.
Scott Wells - Pro Bowl this year
Rodgers - The guy is amazing
Cobb - Finally, a game changer in the return game.


Negs

AJ Hawk - Sproles made it look like he had cement blocks for shoes.
ST Coverage units - year after year they allow big returns.
Woodson - Hate to see that from him.


I'm not worried about the D.. Brees was amazingly accurate and did a good job avoiding the rush. Take away the return and they allowed 27 points to the Saints. Not bad.

quote:

Originally posted by PackerFanFan:

As opposed to the Patriots, who you can still score less against and win.

watching the replay of the game....it seems Starks needs to improve his pass blocking....

he's late to see who to block....and...when he does see who to block, pad level is too high, he's on his heels with no base, and he gets pushed back...he needs to man up and pop someone....

it happened more than just one time...

but, I have confidence he'll get better with more playing time...and also will get sick of the vets toilet papering his car.