Agreed Phaedrus, that '96 team was very good in the skill positions. Maybe the only thing this 2016 team does better than the '96 team is pass block.
Could you imagine what the '96 special teams unit alone would do against the '16 unit? Favre might never even get on the field as the special teams might get like 3 TDs alone against Zook's boys. What's Nolan Cromwell up to these days? 
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/s...ot-seat-fired-101716
Given we have a HOF QB and some talent at the skill positions, I really think the Packers HC job currently has to be one of the more attractive opportunities in pro sports. The right guy would be set up pretty well for success early
If you are Bill Cowher, and you know you want to return to coaching in the right situation, how could you turn this opportunity down?
Eddie posted:A wonder coach?? We don't need a wonder coach, we need to break from the status quo that has exists today. We need to break from the same stubborn game plans start changing what we do and how we utilize the players we have. If being an "owner" gave any input I would look for a defensive minded Head Coach and get a young offensive coordinator to innovate and invigorate the offense. We don't need Gruden, Dungy or Cowher.
And again, who would that be???
WolfPack posted:http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/s...ot-seat-fired-101716
Given we have a HOF QB and some talent at the skill positions, I really think the Packers HC job currently has to be one of the more attractive opportunities in pro sports. The right guy would be set up pretty well for success early
If you are Bill Cowher, and you know you want to return to coaching in the right situation, how could you turn this opportunity down?
Cowher had 15 seasons, made playoffs ten times, lost in the AFC championship four times, made two Super Bowl appearances and had one Super Bowl win. Not that dissimilar to McCarthy and his playoff appearance record, and he has been out of coaching 10 years. Not seeing it.
Not that this is an endorsement of MM. Since the loss to Seattle in the 2014 championship game, the offense has been mediocre to awful, he and the QB don't appear to be on the same page (or, at least, AR doesn't respect him, as indicated by comments AR has made) and his changes haven't worked. I don't think he would be fired after one year of missing the playoffs, so he has 24 games to "get it fixed."
However, I remember the Bart Starr coaching days, Forrest Gregg, Lindy Infante, Ray Rhodes, and yes, Mike Sherman. Ask Philly how dumping Andy Reid worked out for them. Sometimes better the devil you know as the head guy, with some house cleaning underneath, then the promise of something new and different.
Dave Aranda.
My guess is that if guys like Gruden, Cowher etc wanted to coach they would be coaching.
I have no doubt that MM is a very good coach, but his team is in a rut since Game 7 last year. The same issues with the O keep cropping up, and the insistence on going with 11 personnel and iso routes is purely coaching. The same issues with the D not being capable of carrying off-days for the O under Dom, middle of the field being open, giving up last second scores, etc. is again on coaching. The coaches understandably may not see the forest for the trees as well - who gets playing time, who gets chances to prove themselves (we know Richard Rodgers can't block), how many run plays need to be called equals some sort of statistical success - it goes on and on.
That said, TT and MM have made some very odd roster decisions this offseason and year. 2 RB's having fairly similar styles that don't have a great health history. TE's - 2 of which are not NFL caliber (Rodgers and Perillo), continued faith in Don Barclay, etc. 7 WRs, etc. Our CBs have been decimated by injury so it's hard to find too much fault there.
slowmo posted:Eddie posted:A wonder coach?? We don't need a wonder coach, we need to break from the status quo that has exists today. We need to break from the same stubborn game plans start changing what we do and how we utilize the players we have. If being an "owner" gave any input I would look for a defensive minded Head Coach and get a young offensive coordinator to innovate and invigorate the offense. We don't need Gruden, Dungy or Cowher.
And again, who would that be???
No one. We must stick with Mike McCarthy of the rest of eternity, because he won a Super Bowl 6 years ago.
And, it's better to stick with something that clearly isn't working instead of risking something may not work either. So stick with the ineffective guy, because you might pick another ineffective guy.
Top notch thinking. #leadership
From Peter King today.....
Stat of the Week
In their past 20 games, Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers are:
a. 9-11.
b. 4-5 at Lambeau Field.
c. Two wins worse than the Oakland Raiders.
d. Three wins worse than the Detroit Lions.
e. Owners of the same number of 300-yard passing games (three) as Cleveland.
CAPackFan95 posted:slowmo posted:Eddie posted:A wonder coach?? We don't need a wonder coach, we need to break from the status quo that has exists today. We need to break from the same stubborn game plans start changing what we do and how we utilize the players we have. If being an "owner" gave any input I would look for a defensive minded Head Coach and get a young offensive coordinator to innovate and invigorate the offense. We don't need Gruden, Dungy or Cowher.
And again, who would that be???
No one. We must stick with Mike McCarthy of the rest of eternity, because he won a Super Bowl 6 years ago.
And, it's better to stick with something that clearly isn't working instead of risking something may not work either. So stick with the ineffective guy, because you might pick another ineffective guy.
Top notch thinking. #leadership
Nice strawman there. Didn't say MM is a coach for life. Just merely asked who the better coach replacement is. Rather simple question.
Ready, fire, aim. #set up for failure
After sleeping on yesterday's debacle. I'm really effing sour on MM. I can't get past the halftime comment.
Last week. On the road. Nick effing Foles went 16-22 for 230 and two TDs in what essentially amounted to one half of work when he stepped in for Alex Smith. Twice. TE Travis Kelce did the most damage.
That's about the only reason I can come up with for why MM would cobble together a plan that makes Richard Rodgers the focus in the first half
Does it matter that Travis Kelce is a legitimate NFL tight end? I think we saw the answer yesterday.
i don't know what to make of MM yesterday. He obviously feels his plan and scheme will work and he's not really interested in changing. Two plays on the opening drive of the second half are probably going to be where I look back to when I closed the book on MM.
3rd and long on Indy 33. Full ISO stick routes. Playground scramble. AR hoists one for an easy pick but GB gets bailed out on roughing the passer. Next play is a pick that counts. This is the first drive after Mikes comment about beating man coverage and I broke out the vodka and said **** it.
Get an offensive consultant in Mike. Watch tape together. Get another opinion. Maybe a couple. Don't jam your head in the turf and think beating press coverage is the answer.
CJ, McCarthy's hafltime comment/answer was a non answer. He looked shell shocked and completely without an idea of how to change things.
slowmo posted:Nice strawman there. Didn't say MM is a coach for life. Just merely asked who the better coach replacement is. Rather simple question.
Ready, fire, aim. #set up for failure
No more of a straw man than "who would you replace him with?" TT is paid to find the guy, maybe he needs to earn a little more on that side of the ledger.
Continuity is great as long as there are trues ebbs and flows, but this has become an utter ****show in Mike's specialty.
Pikes Peak posted:My guess is that if guys like Gruden, Cowher etc wanted to coach they would be coaching.
Why would you give up the sweet gig that is the media and the big paycheck for the pressure and endless hours of any NFL coach....
Saying McCarthy should be fired is easy. Offering a real solution is the difficult part. Who do you replace McCarthy with is a legit question? Go to perennially underachieving HC lIke Lovie Smith? Bring in an up and comer with no HC experience like Darrell Bevell? Or steal from the Belichick tree with Matt Patricia or retread Josh McDaniel? Yeah it's been 6 years since McCarthy won a SB, Bill Cowher went a decade after losing a SB before he even went to another. He kept his team in the hunt every year despite losing in the playoffs every year except his last, but somehow McCarthy isn't good enough despite winning a SB in year 5? Winning a SB as a HC with the 2nd best winning % among active HCs with over 100 wins is not nothing, regardless of the time between SB wins. Not every coach can be Belichick, those are unfair expectations.
McCarthy needs to shake something up with his routine because the status quo has them at .500 far too late in the season. I can't say where to start because it's hard to pinpoint the issue...it's an issue of execution IMO, but is that an attitude issue among players or practice issues? If it's attitude players then you need to get the players who want execute in the game and sit the inconsistent players. If it's a practice issue then they need to put the position coaches whose positions aren't performing, like QB and WR, on notice or replace them immediately. He needs a culture shock. I still think his biggest mistake was not brining Joe Philbin back in some capacity after he was fired by Miami. Philbin had a different background from McCarthy and was from a different tree and I think he gave McCarthy a different perspective...all the guys now are from the Holmgren/McCarthy tree aside from the new RB and TE coach.
slowmo posted:CAPackFan95 posted:slowmo posted:Eddie posted:A wonder coach?? We don't need a wonder coach, we need to break from the status quo that has exists today. We need to break from the same stubborn game plans start changing what we do and how we utilize the players we have. If being an "owner" gave any input I would look for a defensive minded Head Coach and get a young offensive coordinator to innovate and invigorate the offense. We don't need Gruden, Dungy or Cowher.
And again, who would that be???
No one. We must stick with Mike McCarthy of the rest of eternity, because he won a Super Bowl 6 years ago.
And, it's better to stick with something that clearly isn't working instead of risking something may not work either. So stick with the ineffective guy, because you might pick another ineffective guy.
Top notch thinking. #leadership
Nice strawman there. Didn't say MM is a coach for life. Just merely asked who the better coach replacement is. Rather simple question.
Ready, fire, aim. #set up for failure
First of all, pay me like the Packers top brass who's job it is to live, study, and know these kinds of things. I'll quit my current job and spend from now until the end of the playoffs researching, studying, turning over every rock, consulting with every good football mind I can find, etc.. I'll look into every assistant currently in the NFL, every viable college coach, any head coaches who I think could become available, and every ex-head/assistant coach who is currently not employed and then at that time I'll come up with my recommendation.
Just pulling a name out of my ass when I don't realistically know who would be available or I don't know anything about so many of the potential candidates would be stupid. I could start spewing out a bunch of, "names" of ex-coaches just because people have heard of them but that doesn't mean anything. I don't think many people were expecting M.M. to be the next coach of the Packers when T.T. hired him because he had never been a head coach prior to that. I may not know the answer to, "who" that coach would be right now but that doesn't mean my desire to change things going forward is completely unwarranted.
My opinion is that we're due for a change based on actual results, actual performance, and my lack of confidence in things getting much better if we stay with the status quo. Maybe I'd end up being right and maybe I'd end up being wrong. Who knows?? Hell, even if I was wrong that would put me right in line with most of the current, "experts" in the NFL front offices who make wrong/bad decisions that don't work out all of the time. I guess I'm just not completely adverse to changing things or trying something different if what I'm doing now continues to accumulate a track record of not working.
There's something to be said about being hasty but 2 years (after this season) is pretty sizable sample of ****.
Gotta believe Philbin helped quite a bit yesterday. He knows McCarthy better than almost anyone as far as the coaching mindset.
Goes beyond that though, McCarthy has had over a year of evidence that his offense has been figured out by NFL opponents. Adapt or go home.
As far as the game yesterday, the offense and special teams were brutal, but the thing that pisses me off (almost as much as the stagnant offense) is the lack of pressure created by the defense. Colt opponents have been feasting on the play of Philbins offensive line. They have been terrible. The Packer defensive front was ineffective when they should have set the tone....Capers had to blitz to get there.
Game time in-actives : Julius Peppers, Datone Jones, Nick Perry, etc....WTF ??!!
Yup, it's time for TT to start scouting other staffs for coaching candidates. I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with the name tossed out by Chickboy on the previous page: Josh McDaniel. He was an idot in his first head coaching gig, but my guess is he's learned a thing or two in New England. And guess who's the OC for the Pats' offense that just keeps rolling no matter who they plug-and-play? He's worth an interview. But no matter who, if TT can find a guy out in SF who led us to a Superb Owl, he can probably find another guy.
Slowmo...
Seriously considering some changes doesn't in any way mean that I think M.M. has been a complete failure or that he's not a good coach. His record and accomplishments speak for themselves and put him right up there with other very successful coaches. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he went on to do well with another team at some point in his career.
In addition, I'm not sure that I'm completely enamored with the way T.T. has done everything throughout his tenure with the Parkers either. Again, that doesn't mean he, "sucks" or that he's been terrible at all.
Just my personal opinion but I'd like to see a different philosophy with the way this team is built and start putting the emphasis more on having a kick ass defense instead of a video game offense. Obviously you have to have a competent offense that can put some points on the board but IMO a team built primarily on D will always keep you in games and gives you a better chance to win against the top teams in the league. Based on T.T.'s record and Dom's performance I'm not sure those are the guys I'd trust to try to build that type of team. We've spent a lot of resources on D in the past few years, (Aren't 4 of our front 7 players 1st round picks??) but I just don't see the return on those investments being very good right now.
chickenboy posted:Of course none of us know all the good names our there but I will toss one out. Josh McDaniel. Guys lately with their second opportunity seem to have done well. And he is also an offensive mind which I feel is mandatory for the head dog as long as AR is around.
I have thought about him as well. Big article a little while back with SI or ESPN about how much he learned. Basically an entire article is his mea culpa about his time in Denver.
And having been around Bellichik and Brady for as long as he has been, he would have credibility. But I think he's a pretty well qualified candidate...
Grave Digger posted:I still think his biggest mistake was not brining Joe Philbin back in some capacity after he was fired by Miami. Philbin had a different background from McCarthy and was from a different tree and I think he gave McCarthy a different perspective...all the guys now are from the Holmgren/McCarthy tree aside from the new RB and TE coach.
I've thought about this before too GD. I think Philbin was much more instrumental in the success of our offense than many of us knew or gave him credit for.
Don't you think being around Belichick and Brady is exactly why he looks good? Historically that has been the case with Belichick assistants and players...being around those two makes them look good. Same goes for the Pete Carroll tree, being around them doesn't mean you can replicate the success. If I'm looking for a new HC then it needs to be someone who has been successful under different coaches...McCarthy cut his teeth under multiple HCs in his career as did Belichick and Saban and every other good coach.
To me the best formula going is the Belichick formula of a defensive mind paired with a great QB. I think the only thing that kept Lovie Smith from winning a SB was a lack of QB and ****ty OC's. He knows how to coach defense and instill a discipline in his teams, but he could never field a consistent offense. Get Rodgers a Josh McDaniels type OC and get a legit defensive mind as HC...whether that is Lovie or whoever.
Positives
As I almost always do-I taped the game, even though I didn't know the outcome, it is a quicker, less painful alternative to live action
Montgomery is turning into a hell of a player
The offensive comeback showed that they are still alive and kicking
Better draft position and no doubt a new D-Coordinator for 2017
The whole league other than the Pats seems pretty average.
Negatives
That was a 1970s style loss...we received two unforced gifts and still took a beating......not good memories---it kind of tweaked my PTSD
I always liked the way Lovie's Chicago teams played D and special teams too GD. Good grief...he got them to the Super Bowl with Rex Frickin' Grossman at QB of all people. I didn't pay any attention to why he flamed out so badly in T.B. so I don't know what happened during his tenure there. Not saying he would be my next head coach, I just like the way his team was built around D and special teams. I agree that having a decent/good Q.B. and OC's were the thing that held him back in Chicago.
Grave Digger posted:Saying McCarthy should be fired is easy. Offering a real solution is the difficult part. Who do you replace McCarthy with is a legit question? Go to perennially underachieving HC lIke Lovie Smith? Bring in an up and comer with no HC experience like Darrell Bevell? Or steal from the Belichick tree with Matt Patricia or retread Josh McDaniel? Yeah it's been 6 years since McCarthy won a SB, Bill Cowher went a decade after losing a SB before he even went to another. He kept his team in the hunt every year despite losing in the playoffs every year except his last, but somehow McCarthy isn't good enough despite winning a SB in year 5? Winning a SB as a HC with the 2nd best winning % among active HCs with over 100 wins is not nothing, regardless of the time between SB wins. Not every coach can be Belichick, those are unfair expectations.
McCarthy needs to shake something up with his routine because the status quo has them at .500 far too late in the season. I can't say where to start because it's hard to pinpoint the issue...it's an issue of execution IMO, but is that an attitude issue among players or practice issues? If it's attitude players then you need to get the players who want execute in the game and sit the inconsistent players. If it's a practice issue then they need to put the position coaches whose positions aren't performing, like QB and WR, on notice or replace them immediately. He needs a culture shock. I still think his biggest mistake was not brining Joe Philbin back in some capacity after he was fired by Miami. Philbin had a different background from McCarthy and was from a different tree and I think he gave McCarthy a different perspective...all the guys now are from the Holmgren/McCarthy tree aside from the new RB and TE coach.
Disagree.
Exactly. 3rd and short .... Bombs away !!!!
Today Mike said "it's a man to man game. Didn't do enough to win those matchups". He also said after watching the tape again he felt the energy yesterday was actually pretty good.
Look. It's admirable stuff that Mike thinks his recievers are capable of more and he just needs to unlock their inner greatness. But that isn't a young Jordy, engaged Jennings, and crafty Driver running ISO routes. It's Adams, a not yet back Jordy, Janis and Dick Rodgers. If the plan is to have those guys work harder to beat press man coverage it's going to be a lot more of the same theses final 8 games.
The guy is as stubborn as they get. I just think the body of evidence shows his plan with this personnel group isn't ever coming together the way he's convinced himself it will.
FMc
The shaking up needed to occur after that awful loss in the NFCC game in Seattle. A team poised to be in, and I think could have won, the SB.
This is a case of a coach digging in his heels, saying, "My way works. All I need are guys to execute." But MM's so firmly convinced that he's right, that he's killing the team's collective spirit because they know it ain't working. Something's got to give, and my guess is it will be MM before it's AR or TT.
There were guys open on almost every play yesterday, Rodgers just isn't seeing them. Not sure why all the bombs were thrown. There was only one that was close and that was Janis dropping it.
The other problem with this team is the fans. The ****ing stadium was filled with Colts fans.
Grave Digger posted:Don't you think being around Belichick and Brady is exactly why he looks good? Historically that has been the case with Belichick assistants and players...being around those two makes them look good. Same goes for the Pete Carroll tree, being around them doesn't mean you can replicate the success. If I'm looking for a new HC then it needs to be someone who has been successful under different coaches...McCarthy cut his teeth under multiple HCs in his career as did Belichick and Saban and every other good coach.
To me the best formula going is the Belichick formula of a defensive mind paired with a great QB. I think the only thing that kept Lovie Smith from winning a SB was a lack of QB and ****ty OC's. He knows how to coach defense and instill a discipline in his teams, but he could never field a consistent offense. Get Rodgers a Josh McDaniels type OC and get a legit defensive mind as HC...whether that is Lovie or whoever.
I've got no beef with that. Lovie knows defense but he really would need to be accompanied by an experienced OC. I could see his input with TT forming a solid defensive team. You have a controlled offense with Rodgers? That would be a hell of a team.
excalibur posted:The shaking up needed to occur after that awful loss in the NFCC game in Seattle. A team poised to be in, and I think could have won, the SB.
Bingo. The game management in that game cost them a Super Bowl. They had already beaten the Patriots and I think they'd have beaten them again.
Oh they did fire Shawn Slocum though, maybe that was good enough.
It's admirable that he defends them like this in public. But, he better be sticking his foot up their ass in private if he actually believes it is a winning 1-on-1's issue. I'm fairly certain he isn't doing the latter.
There might not have been a schism between Rodgers and McCarthy before, but there may be one festering. While Rodgers hasn't been Rodgers much over the past 20 games, when he's had success it is when they've gone off script. I don't believe school yard is sustainable, but when it is successful you'd think an offensive minded coach would see that and figure out a way to capitalize on that and scheme to play that way, without the panic.
Tauscher said it this morning on his show with Wilde, the Packers need to figure out what they do well and do that until it gets stopped.
slowmo posted:Nice strawman there. Didn't say MM is a coach for life. Just merely asked who the better coach replacement is. Rather simple question.
Ready, fire, aim. #set up for failure
There is no point naming names. First off, no one has been fired. Secondly, there are no names that anyone that could list that would satisfy you. Hell, you already listed off 4 coaches that you *know* won't come and it would be stupid to suggest.
How about we suggest an OC with no head coaching experience of a sub .500 team? Would that work for you as an answer for your "simple question"?
Of course not. You'd **** all over that. YOU WANT TO FIRE A GUY THAT WON THE SUPER BOWL FOR A COORDINATOR? A COORDINATOR OF A BAD TEAM?
Yet, Thompson went with an OC of a crap team after firing Sherman. You'd **** all over that. You'd **** all over every name.
If you don't trust Ted Thompson so much that you think his sitting on a coach that has been at the helm of some of the most epic choke jobs in playoff history and now is 2 games under .500 in his last 20 games is preferably to the dangers of Thompson making another hire, that's your prerogative.
Personally, I trust Thompson, but to each his own.
GBFanForLife posted:There were guys open on almost every play yesterday, Rodgers just isn't seeing them. Not sure why all the bombs were thrown. There was only one that was close and that was Janis dropping it.
Janis didn't drop that. A drop would imply he made a play to catch it. Sticking his face in the path of the ball is not an attempt to catch it.
I think you're underestimating the physical prowess it takes to make a face catch.
A Brady ball would've stuck in his facemask!
