A new coach isn’t magically going to turn the team around on his own, just like Pettine or any new DC was never going to fix the D in one offseason...just like a new position coach was never going to make BH a serviceable QB. As long as Kentrell Brices and Kyler Fackrells are key starters or depth you won’t see improvement. Gute is on the right track, give him and MM another offseason/season to right some wrongs.
The man has had 12 years with the best quarterback on the planet.
Pakrz posted:The man has had 12 years with the best quarterback on the planet.
But 4-5 years with a GM that probably won't know his own name in another year or two.
MM is a B+ coach at worst.
There was a lack of new talent since 2011.
Pakrz posted:The man has had 12 years with the best quarterback on the planet.
Maybe. And if it's true that McCarthy is the problem, then shame on the best quarterback on the planet for not going full Brady and fixing it years ago.
I just don't think it's as simple and obvious as it seems to us. I'm sure the same thing applies to all of our jobs/careers/professions.
Pakrz posted:The man has had 12 years with the best quarterback on the planet.
Curious why the assumption is always that some other coach would have done a better job than MM?
Suppose, for instance, a Matt Millen type was the replacement. Better?
FinnLander posted:
Suppose, for instance, a Matt Millen type was the replacement. Better?
Ahh give me a second... NO!
At least for me, it’s not that MM is B A D. It’s just that he is not good enough. When I listen to him at press conferences, it sounds like he is an organized guy. I think he is experienced and knowledgeable. He seems careful in most medical calls. He seems to know Aaron’s strengths well. Outside of that I don’t see any innovations. He has shown to be overly loyal to his underperforming coaches. I keep wondering if we have made the playbook too simple and vanilla. I want to see the receivers wide open. I see it happen when I watch other teams games.
bvan posted:Slow witted.
My guess is more like slow-ish/stubborn.
Pakrz posted:The man has had 12 years with the best quarterback on the planet.
Dan Marino had Don Shula and Jimmy Johnson as head coach yet never won a Super Bowl. It ain't only the coach.
The defense sucks. Was it the coach or the players? New coach and defense is worse than it was before.
Aaron Jones averaged almost 7 yards per touch today. He only touched the ball 7 Times.
If Mike McCarthy is offensive coordinator Aaron Jones touches the ball more than 7 Times. Probably closer to 20. But he’s not offensive coordinator. He’s the coach. And he said he was going to limit Aaron Jones during the week.
Brice’s answer to his blown coverage assignment on the 1st TD today was troubling. As was Nick Collins comment today that Brice needs to step up or step out.
ChilliJon posted:Aaron Jones averaged almost 7 yards per touch today. He only touched the ball 7 Times.
If Mike McCarthy is offensive coordinator Aaron Jones touches the ball more than 7 Times. Probably closer to 20. But he’s not offensive coordinator. He’s the coach. And he said he was going to limit Aaron Jones during the week.
Brice’s answer to his blown coverage assignment on the 1st TD today was troubling. As was Nick Collins comment today that Brice needs to step up or step out.
The biggest concerns is that the DBs just appear lost at times. That has been the case for years. How does Joe Whitt survive? He's was kept on by Capers when he arrived and by Pettine, so obviously he must be good at some level. But the DBs just have not appeared to know assignments or improve, so why not try something new after 10 years?
Whitts response to Brice after the 1st TD looked like he wanted to bench him. Brice’s response after the game tells me GB should cut him.
PackerPatrick posted:At least for me, it’s not that MM is B A D. It’s just that he is not good enough. When I listen to him at press conferences, it sounds like he is an organized guy. I think he is experienced and knowledgeable. He seems careful in most medical calls. He seems to know Aaron’s strengths well. Outside of that I don’t see any innovations. He has shown to be overly loyal to his underperforming coaches. I keep wondering if we have made the playbook too simple and vanilla. I want to see the receivers wide open. I see it happen when I watch other teams games.
Compare what we're doing with what Sean McVay is doing with the Rams. I watched that game today. Chiefs are more innovative on offense too.
We do what we do is old.
ChilliJon posted:Whitts response to Brice after the 1st TD looked like he wanted to bench him. Brice’s response after the game tells me GB should cut him.
What did Brice say?
"We was in Cover 4. I was doing what was asked of me to do. Anything else you can ask the coach."
You can’t win in the NFL with the safety play in Washington today. That was embarrassing.
Trade for Thomas and sign Reid and this defense flips instantly.
Brice was awful today. Awful.
Brak posted:There's no new coach that is going to get the Packers another SB ring while Rodgers is on the team. It's not going to happen. Save this and bring it out in 5 years and prove me to be the idiot most believe me to be.
But it's not going to happen.
So we can enjoy zero Super Bowls with McVince. Makes perfect sense.
Didn't see the game, didn't need to. This team is patching a lot of holes. Let's keep one of the guys that put the holes in the boat. Solid thinking.
Don't worry, McVince isn't going anywhere.
Never have quite understood why the possibility of MM quickly receiving an offer of employment elsewhere if dismissed means anything. Andy Reid had no issue finding another job and the Eagles didn't go in another direction because he suddenly became a bad coach. Sometimes a new voice and fresh approach is needed, especially after a coach has been in one job for an extended period. I've always bought into the view that the shelf life of an NFL head coach is typically around a decade.
MM is past the expiration date.
The Eagles aren’t a good example. Reid turned around the Chiefs immediately and Chip Kelly slowly morphed Reid’s team into a disaster. The grass isn’t always greener. Reid also went 4-12 before getting fired, McCarthy went 7-9 without his franchise QB, big difference. Ultimately a losing record is a losing record and McCarthy has to turn it around this season, but a fresh perspective isn’t always a cureall for teams problems.
I'd be okay with Gutekunst replacing MCarthy, I'd be fine if he doesn't.
I couldn't care less one way or the other.
The game has been changing and I naively thought it was temporary. I saw a few clips this AM of the flagged and not flagged QB hits from yesterday. What we were taught to be a textbook tackle is drawing a flag, or not... it's anyone's guess.
I'd love for the game to go back to 24 points being a high pt output. Figure out the helmet tech to protect the brain and get to back to fundamentals, aka tackle football. It won't, not sexy.
If not, put a red Jersey on the QB, get rid of the OL/DL, go 7v7 with flags. Just as entertaining and enjoyable to watch IMO.
I've read comments that the timing of the revival of the XFL is perfect as fans want snot popping hits. A few years ago I would have disagreed, but with the version of Idiocracy that we are living in now I'm not as sure that it won't overtake the NFL.
I'm not a MM fan, but let's wait and see where we are after week 16. Obviously this is a prove it contract year for him, no sense in turning off the game with 8 mins left in the FIRST QUARTER.
YATittle posted:PackerPatrick posted:At least for me, it’s not that MM is B A D. It’s just that he is not good enough. When I listen to him at press conferences, it sounds like he is an organized guy. I think he is experienced and knowledgeable. He seems careful in most medical calls. He seems to know Aaron’s strengths well. Outside of that I don’t see any innovations. He has shown to be overly loyal to his underperforming coaches. I keep wondering if we have made the playbook too simple and vanilla. I want to see the receivers wide open. I see it happen when I watch other teams games.
Compare what we're doing with what Sean McVay is doing with the Rams. I watched that game today. Chiefs are more innovative on offense too.
We do what we do is old.
Mike would do just fine with those rosters.
I think the difference, especially with the Chiefs, is that the QB position has evolved in college. GB drafted Rodgers when pro style QBs were still in fashion, but every year it seems we see fewer and fewer pro style QBs. It seems we either see Air Raid QBs like Mahomes, Mayfield, etc. or we see R/O QBs like Marriotta, Newton, etc. Guys like Darnold and Allen are rare now a days. Reid has always been innovative, but he was also more/less forced to change his offense to suit the QBs coming into the league, specifically the QB he wanted in Mahomes.
Rodgers is athletic and could run basically any offense, but when it comes down to it he's a drop back passer, not a R/O QB. MM has modified the offense with popular formations like the Pistol, double slots, offset stack and some popular concepts like RPOs, backshoulder throws, slot fades, and using presnap motion to get favorable matchups. It's not like we're running an early 2000's offense here. The biggest contrast to schemes we see with McVay and McDaniels and even Reid before he had Mahomes is that MM is still trying to push the ball downfield early and often whereas those schemes are more reliant on short passing to set up deep throws later. GBs offense has always been multiple though, I've seen a lot of evolution.
Grave Digger posted:The Eagles aren’t a good example. Reid turned around the Chiefs immediately and Chip Kelly slowly morphed Reid’s team into a disaster.
Reid's success in KC really proves my point- Reid wasn't a bad coach when Philly decided to go in another direction. The fact the Eagles missed with Kelly (and ultimately got it right with Pederson) really isn't relevant.
PackerPatrick posted:At least for me, it’s not that MM is B A D. It’s just that he is not good enough. When I listen to him at press conferences, it sounds like he is an organized guy. I think he is experienced and knowledgeable. He seems careful in most medical calls. He seems to know Aaron’s strengths well. Outside of that I don’t see any innovations. He has shown to be overly loyal to his underperforming coaches. I keep wondering if we have made the playbook too simple and vanilla. I want to see the receivers wide open. I see it happen when I watch other teams games.
What other teams?
PackerRuss posted:PackerPatrick posted:At least for me, it’s not that MM is B A D. It’s just that he is not good enough. When I listen to him at press conferences, it sounds like he is an organized guy. I think he is experienced and knowledgeable. He seems careful in most medical calls. He seems to know Aaron’s strengths well. Outside of that I don’t see any innovations. He has shown to be overly loyal to his underperforming coaches. I keep wondering if we have made the playbook too simple and vanilla. I want to see the receivers wide open. I see it happen when I watch other teams games.
What other teams?
You make a good point. Of course, there are other teams that struggle. But there seem, to my amateur eyes, too many teams to mention. Also, how many times have we seen a GB receiver wide open? And how many times have we seen other teams receivers be wide open?
Donno, it’s just my impressions after watching a LOT of games.
I have a hard time getting over some of the in-game play calls and the apparent lack of adjustment. I know he has creative talent, but just wonder what has happened to it the past few years.
Ok I will play along with who would/could sign him (assuming MM would want to coach) I no particular order:
Steelers
Browns
Bengals
Redskins
Broncos
Jets
Cardinals
Those are just off the top of my head. My question for the fire MM crowd is who would you like to replace MM?
If MM were fired -- and I'm coming to the conclusion that it is more and more of a possibility given the way things are going -- I think he would be able to choose from among several teams. It's more of which one would be the most interesting.
Steelers: hometown boy, but Rotserberger won't be around forever and I don't see his replacement on the roster. I see a declining group.
Cincinnati: close to home, but no good young QB and Dalton doesn't have "it."
Houston: needs a good QB guru, has some pieces on D. *My second-place finisher.
Browns: closer to home; Mayfield; hail, hail the gang's all here. *My front-runner.
Washington: I'm not sure he'd want Snyder looking over his shoulder.
Broncos: No QB interesting enough.
Jets: Darnold would be nice to have and work with if you want to live and work in NY. *My third-place guess.
Cards: Too messy, too far from home, little in the pipeline.
Seattle: After that article in SI trashing Wilson and management? Lots of rebuilding ahead. Highly unlikely.
Should we start a "Where's MM going pool"?
I highly doubt he will have even close to that many options, he’s no Holmgren and if he’s smart (which I’ve always had doubts about) he should take any offer that becomes available
The Heckler posted:Ok I will play along with who would/could sign him (assuming MM would want to coach) I no particular order:
Steelers
Browns
Bengals
Redskins
Broncos
Jets
Cardinals
Those are just off the top of my head. My question for the fire MM crowd is who would you like to replace MM?
Henry or BK 
Unless there is a complete meltdown this year, I don't think MM is going to be fired. The Packers are caught in a couple of catch 22 situations currently:
1) Our QB is awesome but is costing a lot of money and that might make it difficult to build around him.
2) Our head coach has a great regular season W-L record but hasn't produced the type of post season success that having a HOF QB should produce. However, do you risk blowing it up for a possible upgrade and end up with a downgrade thus wasting the last years of your HOF QBs career.
In reality, this is not a great roster. On offense, we've got AA, Adams and Bahktieraia, but the rest of the skill players and 0-line are OK. On defense you've got some really good D-linemen, some young/talented corners who are unproven and injured. The rest of your D is "meh"
This team is not one player away. (Although it would have been nice to have Mack) the o-line needs a lot of help, and other than Martinez, the LB's need to be rebuilt.
Therefore, I think that Murphy takes the longview on MM and gives him more time with a new GM to rebuild this roster.
Also, if you plan on shoving something in your ass, tie a string to it. Just a quick PSA from the doc.
DOCBENNI, I agree with you. I personally think that MM will be given some more time so they can build this roster again because like you I don't think that this roster is that great. Decent yes but overall its not spectacular.
You mentioned blowing the last years of a hall of famers career and I can agree with that. But, I think we now have a GM that will go to the end of the earth to improve that roster and it may take him a year or two but I very confident he will get it done. One thing that I have been thinking is that perhaps Thompson may not have been the GM god many of us thought he was and he left some gaping holes in that roster especially on defense (and don't get me started about the Packers defense).
Thompson did a good job building the roster until the last 3 years. Honestly it’s like he was abducted by aliens and someone else made those personnel decisions.
The good news is I am impressed with what Gute has done in terms of trying to piece back together this roster and fill the holes. The bad news is there are a lot of holes and given the A Rod extension he doesn’t have the luxury of the Rams and Bears and Eagles to go out and add a bunch of big name free agents. That’s why getting another first rounder was such a brilliant move.
This upcoming offseason will be very interesting. Big decisions to make on Cobb and Matthews and Bulaga and Dix and maybe Tramon and Daniels. Not to mention a HC that doesn’t have a long term deal in place.
DocBenni posted:Also, if you plan on shoving something in your ass, tie a string to it. Just a quick PSA from the doc.
The Heckler posted:DOCBENNI, I agree with you.
1-1-1
Not even 1/4 through the season.
Don't they, and most here, do this same sh!t every year?
Jesus ****q!