As said back in April, if Martin's knee is healed, he's a playmaker.
Unlike Burks.... where even if he's healthy , he still sucks. Still can't believe Gute could watch tape on Vandy against Mizz (Albert O) and spend a high draft pick on Burks. "hey let's trade up !!!" doh
Don’t besmirch the Senators constitution like that bucko!
My new favorite player!
He should have just said, "I meant to post the link about Jordan Love and potential Packers' draft pick in 2021 Ja'Maar Chase. I accidently posted the links to Brandi Love and Cory Chase instead!!! Oooops."
Found on the internet: For the second time in three weeks, rookie linebacker Kamal Martin looked explosive on the blitz. On one snap in the first quarter, he burst through the A-gap and blew up the running back in pass protection, forcing Jake Luton out of the pocket in a panic. The rookie can really play downhill.
We re-wound that play several times. He sent the Jax RB( pretty sure it was Robinson) ass over tea kettle(for the old farts in the room !!!) . Explosive.
Will ABM see what we see and adjust?
MiLF will.
Haven't seen a Packer ILB do that in a while!
Trucked 🚛🚚 starring @KamalMartin pic.twitter.com/IRPIxc4dua
— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) November 16, 2020
Love the way it was ALMOST disguised...
Only downside is he took out Z on the play. Shit happens though.
yeah, well, if he didn't bite on that play action, he could've (could of, for all you English minors) sacked the qb.
But if there would have been a hand off to the RB he may have fumbled as hard and fast as Martin hit him.
just being sarcastic, or trying to be
@Boris posted:Could be a steal for Pack.
— Jim Nagy (@JimNagy_SB) April 28, 2020
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I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong if this guy is even just a good special teams player.
Out of the league in 2-3 years.
He looks fantastic for a 5th round pick!
Still not convinced - but I'm willing to keep watching & hopefully see him improve
I believe the only reason Martin fell to the 5th was his injury history. Seems like he had a lot going for him otherwise. I think he can be much better than what we've seen but that's a pretty low bar.
I'm not going to get too excited after only a handful of good plays. Let's see him do it on a consistent basis before saying he can even start in this league. Blind squirrels and all that...
There are so many others who we thought would be good players who are now either out of the league or sitting on another team's bench or even our own...
Hey @Timpranillo - Peter Bukowski has something to say about your boy Patrick Queen
Kamal Martin finished his rookie campaign as the 2nd highest graded rookie LB. @pff
— Jake Morley (@JacobMorley) January 4, 2021
Spoiler alert, the LB ranked in front of him is not Patrick Queen.
@Boris posted:Could be a steal for Pack.
— Jim Nagy (@JimNagy_SB) April 28, 2020
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I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong if this guy is even just a good special teams player.
Out of the league in 2-3 years.
@OldTakesExposed
I only have 1-2 more years to find out if I'm right.
He certainly looks better than a ST only player though. Let's hope that continues
@Boris posted:Hey @Timpranillo - Peter Bukowski has something to say about your boy Patrick Queen
Kamal Martin finished his rookie campaign as the 2nd highest graded rookie LB. @pff
— Jake Morley (@JacobMorley) January 4, 2021
Spoiler alert, the LB ranked in front of him is not Patrick Queen.
This is exactly why PFF is fucking stupid. Yeah, Kamal Martin was a better ILB than Patrick Queen. For fuck sakes.
I just watch the game and see that queen is better, kamal is good for what and where he is, but watch the games, queen shows up everywhere and is a tackling machine. let's be real.
I don't think PFF is stupid. It's 1 data point.
Don't put all your eggs in 1 data point basket.
Just reporting the news. I don't actually think Martin is better than Queen.
I do wonder how much better the Packer defense could be with Queen, pretty much every week.
I’m not jumping on your shit. I’m jumping on the Twitter clown and my long term nemesis, 50 Drunks in a Bar.
agree, reacting to that post from whoever that dude is, makes it out like kamal is better because pff grades said so...um...uh ok. but not.
PFF isn’t perfect, it’s just someone’s opinion, but in fairness they don’t grade off internet opinions. They do have guys watching every snap for players and judging a W/L or good/bad. A lot of that stuff is easy to spot, some of it, especially with OL is way more subjective. I will say this about this specific discussion: Queen has not been perfect. Far from it. He’s been repeatedly victimized in coverage which I’m guessing is what killed his PFF score. He’s been a good blitzer and has shown he can run all over the field, but he’s not been elite. I don’t think it’s ridiculous to think Martin could have performed better overall although we have MUCH smaller sample size with Martin. Had he played as much as Queen he might have been exposed. It’s year 1, I would expect both players to either improve or get shredded in year 2 and be on the bench.
They have a shit analytics system. As I’ve said before, I like Football Outsiders. It’s the only analytic system that ever seemed to correlate with what you were seeing on the field.
@Grave Digger posted:I don’t think it’s ridiculous to think Martin could have performed better overall although we have MUCH smaller sample size with Martin.
And that’s the problem. That’s the most basic of basic measuring sticks in sample size and still they “ranked” Martin as #2? That’s just stupid.
I’d seriously like to know what teams put so much stock in PFF analytics? The Browns and their fucking Billy Ball stats dumbass? The system that works so well that if you continually suck for years on end all those top picks would have to hit in one way or another? Seriously, how much fucking draft capital has that team piled up? They got a guy in Stefanski that has half a brain to use the literal shit ton of first round talent to finally cobble together a playoff team.
I’d also add that, again, Dorsey added some important pieces. If I had to bet, Dorsey coming out of Wolf/TT’s tree he wasn’t relying on PFF and stats as much as flat out scouting.
BTW, I do think Martin can be really good if he isn’t continually injured.
Both Martin and Barnes have been pretty good for rookies. Good enough to win the big one with IMO. I don't know, nor do I give a fuck, what their PFF grades are.
PFF is not only useless, it's harmful. You got people like above believing that player x is clearly better than player 7 when they have not watched more than 5 downs of player y.
Hank ain’t fucking around today. 👀😂😂
99% of the Tweets I read leave me with the same question... Who the fuck is this guy?
I do think the PFF scores have some validity. The people rating each player on each play have training on how to grade to bring some conformity....however there are shortcomings. Training to do a subjective task is like members of a jury , not everyone is going to see it the same way. In addition, raters don't have the knowledge of sometimes knowing what exactly the assignment is. Pretty easy to grade an o-lineman in one-on-one pass block, but not as easy to know what route or adjustment a WR was supposed to make. When you look at Packer grades for the entire season they are pretty close to what the majority of posters here think. Our highest rated defensive players are: Alexander, Amos, Z. Smith, Savage, & Clark. Lowest are; Kirksey, Lowrey, P..Smith, King, and Barnes. On Offense highest; AR, Adams, Bak, Linsley, Jones. Lowest; MVS, Patrick, Sternberger, . Where they differ greatest from board consensus is: Barnes and Jenkins lower than people see him. Lancaster higher than people see him.
@Henry posted:And that’s the problem. That’s the most basic of basic measuring sticks in sample size and still they “ranked” Martin as #2? That’s just stupid.
Having not looked at PFF, I'm sure there is a minimum amount of snaps, probably 300 or 400 to weed out sample sizes that are a game. I don't think 16 games of Patrick Queen vs. 10 games of Kamal Martin is apples/oranges, but it obviously doesn't mean Martin is anything compared to Queen (it also doesn't mean Queen is anything compared to Martin). If we re-drafted today I think Martin would go higher than R5 but Queen would still go before him.
I don't think NFL teams actually "rely" on PFF, only broadcast channels do. Analytics has a place in front offices, certainly analytics has radically shifted the way teams approach 4th down. The information is not useless, but it's not everything. PFF is the same as anything else, it's reliant on the reader to make a judgement for themselves. Queen is probably better than Martin despite their ratings, but Martin is no slouch.
Queen has started from day 1, had >4X the snaps, had more opportunity to get taken advantage of like all rookies, and also has had more time to learn on the job.
Martin has looked decent in a very limited amount of time, had less opportunity to have opposing offenses try to take advantage of him, and gotten significantly less real game experience than Queen. But, absolutely hope he becomes the best LB the Packers have had in many years!
And that all being said, whether it's Draft Day 2020, Week 1 of 2020, January 4th 2021, or opening week of 2023, I'd still prefer a Packers roster with Queen and Martin over a roster with Jordan Love and Martin.
This isn’t about Martin and Queen, it’s about PFF sucking ass.
We all agree Martin is pretty solid but the reason why he was a 5th rounder is his injury history. Does PFF have a stat for stretchers?
The point you made is that Martin having a higher rating than Queen was evidence of PFF being useless. I’m not a PFF defender nor do I believe it’s valuable for anything more than a data point of comparison, but it’s not a waste of time. I don’t need a professional scout to tell me that Jimmy Graham was a terrible TE in Green Bay, I think any fan, PFF contributor, GM could see he looked bad. Those surface level ratings I think PFF is fine. We can all see Martin does well, probably really well compared to other rookie ILBs, but he’s not perfect. His PFF rating is like 73/100, so he’s in solid D- range. That’s not outrageous. If they rated him 93/100 then I would laugh and dismiss.
If you get into the nuance of a guy like Corey Linsley, who seems to do some things well and struggles with other things, then I think PFF’s scores are mostly useless. I’ve seen current/former NFL players argue on Twitter about such things. They gave him an 89.9, which is a very specific number, and I don’t grasp how they can rate an OL without knowing the scheme, the play call, or the adjustments he made. Based on what I see of Linsley a B+ is fair, but he does other things well they can’t possibly quantify.
@Grave Digger posted:I don’t need a professional scout to tell me that Jimmy Graham was a terrible TE in Green Bay, I think any fan, PFF contributor, GM could see he looked bad.
The whole argument hinges on incorrectly attributing any kind of sense to PFF contributors. I’m pretty sure PFF contributors are hashing through their goofball analytics instead of watching games. In fact, I’m positive or we wouldn’t see these idiotic ratings.
