SI's Banks: Hot seat? MM with most to prove in 2016.

packerboi posted:

One legit criticism from Banks (and actually others): Losing Jordy should not and cannot be the excuse why the offense fell flat on it's ass. Clements was a disaster. Trotting out that tired ole "11 personnel" group again and again was ridiculous and scared no one. Under utilizing Janis! or at least using his speed as a decoy was dumbfounding. Stale and boring was that offense in 2015. And much of that is at the feet...

Except that it wasn't just the loss of Jordy that derailed the offense.  

They went 6-0 without him and it wasn't until Monty and Adams were out, and then injuries along the OL that the offense really hit a wall.  Some of it was opposing D eventually recognizing they could play us differently without Jordy but a lot of that jamming guys at the line and sitting on routes was equally due to Adams on 1 good ankle and Monty out completely.  And a beat up/shuffled OL not giving AR/WR's time.

packerboi posted:

One legit criticism from Banks (and actually others):

Get with the program.  There are NO legit criticisms of the Packers.  If you point out anything that you perceive as a flaw, you are lying and a bad fan.

Toe the line Mister.  

As long as we have another historically embarrassing loss in the playoffs, you should be happy.

Well played.

Barring injury, this has the chance to be a special season

Any offense with 12 at QB shouldn't be bad. It took some really crappy coaching to help get the Packers to that point last season.

DH13 posted:

Except that it wasn't just the loss of Jordy that derailed the offense.  

Some of it was opposing D eventually recognizing they could play us differently without Jordy but a lot of that jamming guys at the line and sitting on routes was equally due to Adams on 1 good ankle and Monty out completely.  And a beat up/shuffled OL not giving AR/WR's time.

As the old cliche goes, Denver's defense laid out the blueprint for stopping the Packers.  Another factor was $10M Cobb.  He did not play like a guy getting paid top starter money.

Yeah. He should give the money back.

RushRunner posted:

DH13 posted:

Except that it wasn't just the loss of Jordy that derailed the offense.  

Some of it was opposing D eventually recognizing they could play us differently without Jordy but a lot of that jamming guys at the line and sitting on routes was equally due to Adams on 1 good ankle and Monty out completely.  And a beat up/shuffled OL not giving AR/WR's time.

As the old cliche goes, Denver's defense laid out the blueprint for stopping the Packers.  Another factor was $10M Cobb.  He did not play like a guy getting paid top starter money.

The Raiders offered him $12 million

Blueprint?  My eyes are going like this---->>

ChilliJon posted:

You teach your son's friendcousin how to properly start a washer?

Actually it is easy.  Follow these steps:

1. Put socks in the washer.

2. Add detergent.

3. Add softener.

4. Add more detergent - hey, just throw in the whole box.

5. Add a bottle of Clorox - just to be sure.

6. (Assuming you at a laundry mate) Put the money in the machine.

7. Push the "Start" button.

8. Step outside for plausible deniability if things go wrong. 

DH13 posted:

packerboi posted:

One legit criticism from Banks (and actually others): Losing Jordy should not and cannot be the excuse why the offense fell flat on it's ass. Clements was a disaster. Trotting out that tired ole "11 personnel" group again and again was ridiculous and scared no one. Under utilizing Janis! or at least using his speed as a decoy was dumbfounding. Stale and boring was that offense in 2015. And much of that is at the feet...

Except that it wasn't just the loss of Jordy that derailed the offense.  

They went 6-0 without him and it wasn't until Monty and Adams were out, and then injuries along the OL that the offense really hit a wall.  Some of it was opposing D eventually recognizing they could play us differently without Jordy but a lot of that jamming guys at the line and sitting on routes was equally due to Adams on 1 good ankle and Monty out completely.  And a beat up/shuffled OL not giving AR/WR's time.

You both have good points.  We trotted out injured WRs week after week - hoping for a different result.  If your just a little slower or a little less quick that makes a big difference.  We had a healthy Janis & Abby and did not use them very much.  So I am on board with that.  Also, Clements play calling and OL injuries were issues too.  I will add the out of shape/sometimes injured Lacy thing as well.  So who was healthy besides 2 WRs?  TE Rodgers.  Bless his heart he did the best he could.  But being one of a healthy group of offensive weapons is different than being THE healthy offensive weapon.  Only a handful of players in NFL history have that kind of ability.  So if you are AR what are you going to do?  I think that why we added OL, a WR, and a TE - and hope the remaining cast can stay healthy. 

The great Bill Huber at Packer Report with an article worth considering.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/packe...4-super-bowl-or-bust

... Thompson will keep some of those free agents, but there’s no way he can keep them all. The team’s salary-cap structure is on an unsustainable path. Green Bay has more than two-thirds of its salary cap invested in 12 players, making it the most top-heavy roster in the league. It’s hard to quibble too much in whom Thompson has targeted with big-money contracts — those 12 players are, in order, Rodgers, Clay Matthews, Sam Shields, Peppers, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Mike Daniels, Sitton, Lang, Morgan Burnett, Bryan Bulaga and Nick Perry. Still, the middle-class has practically disappeared. The Packers have a league-low six veteran-contract players with cap numbers of $3.87 million or less.
Thompson has banked on his stars to deliver and his draft picks to develop quickly. However, the 2011 and 2012 drafts were busts, with only Cobb (2011), Perry (2012) and Daniels (2012) remaining from those draft classes. That left a black hole of fifth- and sixth-year players on the roster. The Class of 2013 was a rousing success, but the jury is out on the 2014 and 2015 drafts. The play of Davante Adams, Richard Rodgers and Jeff Janis (2014 picks who have flashed but not consistently) and Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins, Ty Montgomery and Jake Ryan (the top four picks of 2015) will determine the verdicts of those drafts.
More than that, their performance likely will determine the Packers’ viability as legitimate championship contenders in 2017 and beyond.
Unless Peppers is coaxed back for another season, Rodgers figures to be the oldest player on the roster at this time next year. He’ll be 33 and almost certainly will have a few more excellent seasons in him. But will Rodgers have the supporting cast capable of helping him get a second (or third) Super Bowl ring? Can the 2014, 2015 and 2016 drafts provide the infusion of talent necessary to overcome the personnel losses that are to come as the salary cap catches up to one of the NFL’s most consistent winners? ...

And that's why the drafted a WR they didn't seem to need and doubled up on OL- Thompson is managing the cap just fine. The DB group was getting pricey do they got turnover and now they have 3 possible stars all on rookie deals. The OL is aging and now they have 2 rookie Ts to fit in the mix. The LBs are a work in progress. 

Not sure I understand the whole "top heavy" perspective- the Packers are always a mix of veteran talent and rookies/younger players. Rodgers being one of the game's highest paid skews the #s some. But few teams replenish their ranks with youth better than the Packers. 

So I guess the question is, who in that top 12 are not likely to be resigned when their contract is up, & who on the current roster would replace them in the top 12 when they are resigned? 

those 12 players are, in order, Rodgers, Clay Matthews, Sam Shields, Peppers, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Mike Daniels, Sitton, Lang, Morgan Burnett, Bryan Bulaga and Nick Perry.

IMO, last year for Peppers, Bulaga, and Perry. 

I think it's Peppers' last.  Perry depends on how the rest of the OLB's develop; Fackerell, Elliot.  If those two don't show enough promise, they almost need Perry.  They got nothing else at the position.

Elliot, IMO, is just waiting for Peppers to step aside. I really like his game. And, they moved Datone to elephant, right?

Oh yeah.  I completely forgot about Datone Jones.  I don't know how anybody could completely forget about Datone Jones.

well, I thought Elliot Wolf first from H5's post - kinda forgot about Jayrone for a bit there.

I almost called him Malumba.  All those OLB's look the same.

It would seem like one of the three olineman (Bulaga, Lang, Sitton) would not resign, along with Peppers & Perry. Three most likely candidates to eventually replace them in top pay tier would be Ha Ha, Randall, & Lacy (if he has a big year)

DH13 posted:

I almost called him Malumba.  All those OLB's look the same.

That's kind of the idea and why we shouldn't get too overly concerned with the revolving options opposite of CM3.

Except when they all look the same in a not too flattering way.  Perry looks great when he's healthy.  Everyone else still heavy on P.

Hungry5 posted:

Elliot, IMO, is just waiting for Peppers to step aside. I really like his game. And, they moved Datone to elephant, right?

Now that's funny from a Janis! hater.

Elliot wasn't assignment sure after his big Seattle INT went to his head...and he's in the dog house ever since.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Elliot doesn't know his defensive route tree...he's trying to be a hero on every play now. Not good.

Not everyone here has coached NFL players, so you need to cut us some slack. 

It's tough to beat oldschool.

BFI 4 Life

Not just Any NFL player.  Collin "Ever seen a grown man naked" Kaepernick

I had really thought that was just a joke.  Too bad that stallion didn't amount to much.

If he'd had competent coaching as a kid....

I'm still grossed out he referred to the young Kaepernick as "a stallion". 

A man's man among boys.

FLPACKER posted:

It would seem like one of the three olineman (Bulaga, Lang, Sitton) would not resign, along with Peppers & Perry. Three most likely candidates to eventually replace them in top pay tier would be Ha Ha, Randall, & Lacy (if he has a big year)

Disagree on Lacy. I don't think Ted considers a RB much more than a replaceable commodity not worthy of major cap space...even if Lacy has a big year.

Not going to happen. 

RB's are a dime a dozen with the current passing rules and evolution of the game. 

The best value may be another 2nd round or 3rd talent to plug in again...at best. 

We are due to get lucky and get a really good one one of these times. 

Lacy was awwwrite.

For an effeminate.

Eddy, when good, has shown TT the extra gear this O can have, something he hadn't seen since Starks came in with his hair on fire in late 2010.  Those types in fact aren't a dime a dozen and we've seen what this O looks like with without a good RB.  TT's gamble will be on whether he thinks he can quickly find another difference maker at the position if he lets Eddy walk.

Hopefully someone less effeminate.

Aaron Rodgers with a running game is unstoppable... why would you risk not having it? No skill position gets big $$$ when your QB is AR. Nor should they... you wanna break the bank? Good luck with the Lions or Cowboys...

With a RB and Janis.

DH13 posted:

Eddy, when good, has shown TT the extra gear this O can have, something he hadn't seen since Starks came in with his hair on fire in late 2010.  Those types in fact aren't a dime a dozen and we've seen what this O looks like with without a good RB.  TT's gamble will be on whether he thinks he can quickly find another difference maker at the position if he lets Eddy walk.

Key words..."when good"...thats too much risk to take for just a RB.

Ted will plug and play another draft pick before he risks cap space on up and down Lacy.

I'm positive.

That's all I need to know Eddy will be re-signed.

Ted usually keeps his draft picks unless they completely tank (Brohm,  etc.)

I hope Lacy has a monster year this year. 

It means he will be moving on to another team, but that is alright.  I do not trust Eddie Lacy and a big contract.