Somewhat negative/extremely negative Packers v. Carolina

So we have dropped two games and now the entire philosophy on which this team is built is flawed? So TT needs to do the equivalent of Rodgers throwing more INTs? Is that, wasting money on FA's? Trading for other teams cast offs?

Please explain why this is black and white? No one on this board (or I would state 99.9% of Packer fans) thinks that TT isn't an elite GM. However, it is quite obvious that he pretty much ignores one avenue that could improve the team. Being critical of that is legal and also isn't a statement that 'the entire' philosophy is flawed.

MichiganPacker:
Draft and develop is a nice way to build a program, but by definition you are always developing.

Jordy Nelson's injury is really the only basis for this on offense.  Look at the top 3 WR's - Nelson, Cobb, Adams.  That is not a high level of "always developing" with the starting offense.  Rodgers ain't developing.  The starting o-line for the most part is not.  RB is not much of a developing-dependent position.

I agree we do have that situation on defensive secondary, but I just don't see it on offense save the impact of Jordy's loss.

You assume he ignores other avenues, you don't know that. Not signing overpriced free agents does not mean he's not interested in them. It's the same argument with Rosgers not taking enough risks...just because he doesn't throw INTs does not mean he's not taking risks. He's being careful with the football and not putting this team in a bad position. My impression is that Thompson will gamble on a 22 year old who costs him 1 million or less per season over gambling on a 28 year old who will cost him over 5 million per season.

Add too fiscally responsible to this list of complaints next to not throwing enough INTs.

I don't assume anything.

 

I base my opinion that TT does not sign unrestricted free agents (or make trades for players) like his peers in the NFL on the INDISPUTABLE FACT that 49 of 53 players on the roster have never been on another NFL roster (the next highest teams being the Rams at 44 and Bengals at 41).

 

Meanwhile, NE has made more trades than any other team in the league the past few seasons, including 3 this season.

As Yogi would say...those of us that watched the game were unable to watch the game.

I'll ask the same question to anyone suggesting TT doesn't sign enough FA's.

 

Who was available to sign, how much did they sign for and how well are they doing for their new team?  And beyond that, any FA has to want to come to GB - it takes two to tango.

Yet GB is second only to NE in wins (6 fewer) and has just as many SB wins since 2010. There's more than 1 right way.

Yes you are assuming. Just because he doesn't sign them doesn't mean he doesn't explore that option. I think he explores all options and determines whether that option is right for the team.

Simply saying "we should be more like BB and NE" doesn't offer any answers.  There is a reason they are the only team that has been successful doing what they are doing.  Name another consistently successful team that signs a lot of FA's.

I realize I'm in the minority, but I thought the DL was adequate yesterday. On the first few drives they were aggressive with the pash rush and Newton scrambled for a few first downs. After that, they kept in the pocket by controlling their rush. He had a couple of great throws to guys that were well covered for TDs, but they relied on him missing some throws and he complied. Two of the backbreaking plays were blown coverages or poor execution by the secondary (the 59 yarder and the TD to Olsen where no one bumped him at the LOS).

Again, the evidence reveals that TT's philosophy is to keep his own players. The proof is in the number of players who have been on other rosters - not many.

 

Also, pretty sure your when you state you "THINK" TT explores all options = you are ASSUMING he explores all options, but if you have firsthand information, we'd love to hear about it.

 

Finally, since 2011 NE has been to 2 more Super Bowls and won 1 more than the Pack. They are also 8-0 this season with a roster chock full of fellas who have been on other NFL rosters. 

 

"First hand information"?  What is the more likely situation here.

 

1. TT seeks out and considers all avenues of roster improvement.  He makes decisions based on what he thinks is best for the roster/cap today and in the future.

 

2. TT is only interested in draft and develop and ignores all other avenues.  

 

Again, who was available, how much did they sign for, and how are they doing on their new team?  Did they have any interest in playing in GB?

 

When you have a defensive backfield that is injured and young and a lb corp that is a bit suspect the D line has to be better than adequate.

Bull****. The Panthers averaged 3.6 yards per carry. You got a problem because he is white?

His philosophy is basically sound, but he needs to augment it by utilizing his other avenues of player procurement. That is where he is not in balance, and it has cost this team Wins, every year since 2010.

 

It took Ted Thompson 3 years to address the loss of Nick Collins in early October of 2011. I often wonder what might have transpired had he traded for another S before that trade deadline in 2011. We may never have been plagued with the "Fail Mary" and all that other crap. We might have won another SB or two...

 

David Bakhtiari has been playing with an injured knee all season long. We added zero depth behind him. Zero.

What S should he have traded for that was available at that time?

I knew that was coming. Surely, a capable S could have been added for the right price.

Shouldn't that question follow?  Otherwise we're just throwing stuff against the wall.  It's like saying "TT should do his job better".

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, BUT THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!

I must have missed that 2nd SB that NE  won this decade. I only know of the one.

I think Thompson explores all options because he has said "we explore every option". He's never said "I don't sign free agents..."

I certainly am not arguing for panic trades in mid-season, and I'm not saying the entire philosophy is flawed. As long as Rodgers is healthy and you continue with this philosophy, the team will likely be a 10-12 win team with a chance to make a run in the playoffs. It worked once, but they needed some enormous breaks for that to happen (I think if DeSean Jackson doesn't return that punt for a TD at the end of Eagles-Giants game the Packers don't make the playoffs in 2010). It should have been sufficient last year to make a Super Bowl (we all know what happened the last 5 minutes in Seattle).

 

I see your points  GraveDigger, but I wonder if a tweak in philosophy in the offseason might turn playoff road games into playoff home games. It doesn't get you anywhere to sign another team's AJ Hawk-types. However, getting an Owen Daniels type TE is something that would have helped.

Given that I wrote "since 2011 NE has been to 2 more Super Bowls and won 1 more than the Pack" is it a reading comprehension issue or just denial that would cause you misrepresent what I wrote and claim I stated NE won a second Super Bowl since the Packers last made the big game?

For ****s sake. You'd think this was a Lions or Texans or Jaguars board. 

Why would you stop at 2011? to selectively not include 2010?  That doesn't make sense.  If we're comparing apples to apples instead of apples to anvils, shouldn't we compare current regime vs current regime? i.e. TT/MM vs. BB?  That would be since 2006.  NE has been to and lost 2 more SB's, SB wins are equal.  

the Packers are working hard to be invited into this group.

Please.  Stop the logic & common sense.  Please.

SB wins are all that matters. 

Well I said this decade which includes 2010. I guess, if we are are going to be pedantic, the Packers won their SB in the year 2011 so you're still wrong. This argument is ridiculous by the way. The original point was to look at NE as he model franchise, pointing out that they have made trades and signed FA's, implying they are a much more successful franchise than GB for it. Actually GB's model is almost as successful with the same amount of SB wins and the second best record in the league since 2010. As I said, there can be more than one right way and NE vs GB this decade proves that.

       
       
That's a really dumb thing to lie about. It serves no strategic purpose which I think is the main reason why these guys lie at the podium.

You didn't answer the question--if you claim something should have been done, why don't you identify the player and trade that should have been made.  In the real world of the NFL, your 22 isn't going to be made up of the best player at each position.  

I got as much beef as the next guy but I sure love to see the who's who of pissants that come out for this kind of stuff.  

 

 

There was no reason for Collins' replacement to be 3 years in the making.

Depends on the level of replacement you're talking about.  Collins was an all-pro in his prime.  How long had it been since we had a S that good before him?  Those kind of players don't grow on trees.  That was also at a time when nearly every position on the D needed rebuilding.  Can't fix everything at once.

Thanks, Hank. I've been struggling with how to say this all morning. Between this and the MIA brigade who shows up only in game threads when the squad is losing.

 

Its a long season. Only halfway through. Coaches and players need to step up. We've seen them do it before and we've seen them not do it.

 

I'm betting this gets sorted out with some more bumpiness on the road. But who knows. The other teams get votes too.

 

People should enjoy the journey more.

I posted a link last week about the o-line being the 20th best in the NFL.  Many posters came to the o-line's defense, either excusing the o-line b/c of injuries or saying PFF is stupid.  Well looks like they're on to something b/c this two weeks now of awful o-line play.  They can't open holes in the run game and it's clear Rodgers doesn't trust them in pass pro.  Offenses issues tart there.  They also need to talk about new route concepts.  Other teams have plays to get guys open; seems like the Packers just have 3-4 guys out there working on their own to get open.  Other teams lacking a top 5 WR scheme around it, with crossing routes, etc.  

 

On defense, so many issues that I don't know how you fix them mid-season.  Same issues we've always had: inability of front 7 to get any push in the passing game and can't tackle in the run game, and communication issues in the secondary.  If they haven't been able to fix these issues over the last 4 years, how do they fix them over the last 8 weeks?

They fixed those issues in the last 8 weeks last year.

 

Trophies can, he has a plan. 3 firsts for Joe Thomas.

 

From an NFL Network producer:

@BenFennell_NFL: Re-watching the #Packers defense this morning.. It doesnt look as bad as it did on TV. The 7 plays of 20+yds were absolute back-breakers.

 

@BenFennell_NFL: #Packers rookie LB Jake Ryan played 38 snaps... Was serviceable. Reads and moves very well.. Just needs to be more violent/stronger.

 

@BenFennell_NFL: I have 10 plays of Jake Ryan getting off blocks.. Really impressed. Just want him to get off the block a tad quicker, more violent in hands!

What the hell?