Anyone but Palmer right now, he seems lost and doesn't even try in some plays.
Please keep playing Jake Ryan. work with him. He'll be so much better than Palmer....
Originally Posted by MichiganPacker:
Draft and develop is a nice way to build a program, but by definition you are always developing. Tthe problem with it is that you are constantly playing 1st and 2nd year guys who are prone to blown coverages, running lazy routes, etc. It takes a while to adjust to being a professional player where almost everyone is a good athlete, even for the most mature guys.
Significant portions of our secondary and WR/TE are 1st and 2nd year guys. Now a lot of the missed assignments were not directly due to these guys, but how much extra effort does it take for the veterans to make sure that the young guys are lined up in the right place and ensure they that have the correct assignment? Every time, for example, Morgan Burnett has to take time to do that, it's less time for him to just play football and make plays based on film study, etc. It makes the veteran guys more tentative in some ways.
The good news is that as the young guys get experience, this should get better. The bad news is that by the time this happens, the team will end up playing a road game in the playoffs instead of at home.
I sometimes think TT pride in his draft and develop philosophy is similar to the Favre consecutive game streak or Rodgers interception stats. For the significant majority of things, it's something to be proud of and celebrate. However, there are some times when you have to act differently. If you're Rodgers, you don't go Favrian and play rocketball, but you do take some chances on 3rd and long (or 4th and long) when a long interception is as good as a punt. Rodgers clearly did this in the 4th quarter yesterday (the Jones 4th down conversion and several other examples). Favre never got over this. TT has never really used free agency extensively to try to fill in some gaps for a year or two. The two times he's done it (Woodson and Peppers), it's worked wonders. It would have been nice the last few years to have a veteran safety, a competent veteran ILB, or a savvy veteran TE. Those guys are out there every year and generally not that expensive. At least bring them in as competition in training camp. Ron Wolf went and got guys like Eugene Robinson, Ron Cox, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Bruce Wilkerson, Andre Rison, Keith Jackson, etc. Belichick does this constantly.
The Packers will make the playoffs and likely lose in the divisional or championship round. That's a good season. The Packers have gotten most of the difficult stuff right - a HOF QB, a decent OL, good outside pash rushers, good depth at CB (especially once Shields is back). That's why they win consistently. Once in a while a veteran addition might have pushed them a little higher.
Well said. I couldn't have agreed more.
Originally Posted by cuqui:
Originally Posted by Henry:
I got as much beef as the next guy but I sure love to see the who's who of pissants that come out for this kind of stuff.
Thanks, Hank. I've been struggling with how to say this all morning. Between this and the MIA brigade who shows up only in game threads when the squad is losing.
Its a long season. Only halfway through. Coaches and players need to step up. We've seen them do it before and we've seen them not do it.
I'm betting this gets sorted out with some more bumpiness on the road. But who knows. The other teams get votes too.
People should enjoy the journey more.
Thanks to both of you!
Originally Posted by antooo:
Aqib Talib deserves to be suspended for intentionally poking an opponent in the eye.
Kubiak on #Talib: "He's wrong. He needs to stay out of the situation. And he knows that." Added they had long talk on team flight home.
— Denver Broncos (@Broncos) November 9, 2015
Kubiak: "I'm convinced after taking with Aqib he had no intention of poking anyone in the eye."
— Denver Broncos (@Broncos) November 9, 2015
NFL is suspending Broncos CB Aqib Talib for one game for eye poke, as @MikeKlis reported. Talib is appealing.
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) November 9, 2015
listening to radio at lunch, Bill Michaels and Mike Clemen where told by GBP staff that Lacy has a groin injury. They indicated it was an injury from before yesterday's game, and were wondering why MM would play him and not give the carries to Starks and Harris and let him heal. I hear that as well.
edit: from other posts it now appears it happened during the game.
That might not be as bad as it sounds. Coaches put guys out there who are not 100% all the time, they may have been testing the waters (and the fumble told them in no uncertain terms that the water was to cold).
Mike talks to the trainers and the docs.
Then he talks to the player.
Dollar to Lacy's donuts Eddie said "It's cool. Let's go."
Not sure if he meant to necessarily poke him in the eye but it's not always about intent. If two football players are in a heated argument on the field and you put two fingers in a players facemask, it's not far fetched to assume that there is a good chance the player is getting poked in the eye. Reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Bart tells Lisa, "I'm just going to punch air and if you're in that air, it's your own fault".
Glad Talib is suspended. Should have been thrown out. I personally think the macho bulls**t that happens after the whistle needs to be reigned in.
In the last 8 years. Green Bay hasn't converted less than 40% of their 3rd down conversions over the course of a season. On avreage over the years GB converts around a 44%-45% clip. Easily top 10.
This year GB is converting 3rd downs 34% of the time. The last 3 weeks they are converting 25% of the time. Easily one of the NFL's worst.
I miss Jordy, but this isn't purely a Jordy problem. I thnink this conversation starts with the big uglies. They aren't getting things done. Scheme, execution, prep, playcalling, AR, all fall in line in some manner after the OL.
To that end:
@ByRyanWood: #Packers QB Aaron Rodgers was sacked 3 times and hit 9 times in first 3 games. In past 3, he's been sacked 11 times and hit 26 times. Ouch.
Originally Posted by ChilliJon:
In the last 8 years. Green Bay hasn't converted less than 40% of their 3rd down conversions over the course of a season. On avreage over the years GB converts around a 44%-45% clip. Easily top 10.
This year GB is converting 3rd downs 34% of the time. The last 3 weeks they are converting 25% of the time. Easily one of the NFL's worst.
I miss Jordy, but this isn't purely a Jordy problem. I thnink this conversation starts with the big uglies. They aren't getting things done. Scheme, execution, prep, playcalling, AR, all fall in line in some manner after the OL.
We ARE NOT winning the 1 on 1 battles on both sides of the ball. And that leads to the problems we are now seeing. Receivers not getting open, DL not getting pressure, o line not creating run opportunities.
Not winning 1 on 1's plus repeated mental errors (OL penalties) says lack of focus and/or want-to to me. Why? Got me. Too convinced they were getting "gritty wins" and winning ugly when they were really just eking by the mediocre?
MM promised ST would get better and they did. But it looks like at the price of the O. Plug one hole and another springs somewhere else. Now O and D need boots but MM is running out of feet.
Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
So we have dropped two games and now the entire philosophy on which this team is built is flawed? So TT needs to do the equivalent of Rodgers throwing more INTs? Is that, wasting money on FA's? Trading for other teams cast offs?
We are in the middle of something you don't see very often. Back to back HOF quarterbacks on our roster. San Francisco parlayed that into 5 rings, so far we are at 2.
Are you still going to defend TT if the Favre / Rodgers era ends at two with one of them coming under Wolf?
By the time it's all said and done he will have managed a roster with a HOF QB for about 20 years. It's looking like a real possibility that will equate to one SB appearance. Color me unimpressed.
As opposed to the Dolphins who had what, 13 years of a HOF qb and never won a Super Bowl?
Originally Posted by EC Pack:
As opposed to the Dolphins who had what, 13 years of a HOF qb and never won a Super Bowl?
As opposed to San Francisco.... as was mentioned in my post.
Originally Posted by Trophies:
Originally Posted by slowmo:
Originally Posted by Trophies:
Originally Posted by DH13:
What S should he have traded for that was available at that time?
I knew that was coming. Surely, a capable S could have been added for the right price.
You didn't answer the question--if you claim something should have been done, why don't you identify the player and trade that should have been made. In the real world of the NFL, your 22 isn't going to be made up of the best player at each position.
There was no reason for Collins' replacement to be 3 years in the making.
Why do you make it sound like drafting NFL players should be like walking into your local grocery store & picking up a loaf of bread?
Originally Posted by DH13:
I'll ask the same question to anyone suggesting TT doesn't sign enough FA's.
Who was available to sign, how much did they sign for and how well are they doing for their new team? And beyond that, any FA has to want to come to GB - it takes two to tango.
I think that's fair. Here's a list of all the defensive players that were available this year.
Originally Posted by titmfatied:
Originally Posted by DH13:
I'll ask the same question to anyone suggesting TT doesn't sign enough FA's.
Who was available to sign, how much did they sign for and how well are they doing for their new team? And beyond that, any FA has to want to come to GB - it takes two to tango.
I think that's fair. Here's a list of all the defensive players that were available this year.
No coordinators on that list
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
Originally Posted by EC Pack:
As opposed to the Dolphins who had what, 13 years of a HOF qb and never won a Super Bowl?
As opposed to San Francisco.... as was mentioned in my post.
Touché. Did SF win any in the salary cap era? Not a wiseass crack, just curious. Maybe one?
Comparing to NE might be more era related.
The Vikings have had multipe HOF QBs over their 55-year career, and have never won the big game.
And that's the way we like it.
And that's the way we like it.
SF won their last SB in 94 which was the year the salary cap was introduced.
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
By the time it's all said and done he will have managed a roster with a HOF QB for about 20 years.
Ted became GM in 2005. So you're saying both he and Rodgers will be around for another 10 years. Okay.
Originally Posted by GEEMAN:
SF won their last SB in 94 which was the year the salary cap was introduced.
BD mentioned 2 HoF QBs, 5 SB wins.
There are HoF QBs and then there's Joe Montana who most view as the greatest QB ever, or in the top 2 or 3 at least.
It also helps to have had the greatest WR of all time on your roster. Although Rice did fumble.
Originally Posted by titmfatied:
Originally Posted by DH13:
I'll ask the same question to anyone suggesting TT doesn't sign enough FA's.
Who was available to sign, how much did they sign for and how well are they doing for their new team? And beyond that, any FA has to want to come to GB - it takes two to tango.
I think that's fair. Here's a list of all the defensive players that were available this year.
Would have been nice to sign Jason Worilds, but nooo TT was too tight.
No doubt c. I guess my point was SF didn't have the salary cap to deal with for 4 of those 5 SB wins.
Yep. Quoted your post for emphasis, plus the point I was trying to make.
Trying to compare franchise success pre- and post-salary cap is like trying to compare QB and receiver stats pre- and post-1978 (the Mel Blount inspired rules changes affecting pass defense which started the slippery slope towards the pass happy league of today). Completely different universes.
Hard to believe the Packers fit Don Hutson under the cap all those years 
Seriously though, would be an utter fail if Rodgers only gets to one Super Bowl. That god-damn Seattle game is gonna cause nightmares for a while longer isn't it ? Lots of mess to overcome to get to a Super Bowl this year.
Originally Posted by EC Pack:
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
Originally Posted by EC Pack:
As opposed to the Dolphins who had what, 13 years of a HOF qb and never won a Super Bowl?
As opposed to San Francisco.... as was mentioned in my post.
Touché. Did SF win any in the salary cap era? Not a wiseass crack, just curious. Maybe one?
Comparing to NE might be more era related.
Comparing to New England or Manning led teams.
As far as the 49rs and the salary cap era, that's kinda the point here. If TT were willing to be more aggressive with the roster it could have gotten us over the hump the years we have been close.
A MLB, a Safety... Look what Peppers did for us. I'm not saying Pepper types are always available, but I am saying you could get a vet on a short term deal to upgrade MD Jennings. It could hurt for a year if it didn't work out, but at least you played your hand.
Ted is the guy at the dance with a 12" dong but to afraid to take a chance and talk to girls.
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
Ted is the guy at the dance with a 12" dong
I didn't think it was possible for me to have even more admiration for TT
Maybe that's why he gave his first draft pick #12 
ROTTT
ROTTT?
Really Outstanding Triple Thick Twelve?
I always thought it was the albino look that set him apart...