Speed!!!

Thanks Bob

I think it was called "The Bus That Couldn't Go Slow".

It's hard to say, really, that speed or lack of speed is their issue.  Jordy Nelson is not a burner but he made great cuts and fakes and found a way to get open most of the time.  He also was big enough to shake off any contact by most DBs. 

Teams have figured out that if you get physical with our WRs and keep Rodgers in the pocket that you have a good chance of containing this offense.  The situation is made even better with a banged up OL and the fact they drop a lot of passes. 

Last I checked it is not against the rules for marginally slower players to get open and catch the ball.   

Are you telling me Owen Daniels is not a speed merchant?

Good post SteveLuke. One thing that you can tell a lot more being at the game is how consistently the WRs get open.

Abbrederis was a great route runner at Wisconsin. The thing that gives you the most hope for his future as an NFL WR is that the one game where Ohio State covered him one on one with Bradley Roby Abbrederis absolutely dominated him. Roby is a first round pick currently starting at CB for the Broncos. It wasn't even close, Abbrederis made him look like he was a freshman backup. Abbrederis had 10 catches for 207 yards.

http://bleacherreport.com/arti...rospect-on-the-field

Maybe Abby is just a slot guy, but he needs to be on the field. Yes, he had a drop and a ball an NFL receiver should catch, but Adams has multiple drops and can't get open and seems to stay on the field no matter what. Abbrederis drops one pass (on which he ran a nice pattern to get open) and hardly plays the rest of the game.

Abby seemed to play a lot against Arizona. Had a crucial drop. 

Grave Digger posted:

Abby Adams seemed to play a lot against Arizona. Had a several crucial drop drops. 

ftfy

Grave Digger posted:

Abby seemed to play a lot against Arizona. Had a crucial drop. 

14 plays according to McGinn. http://www.jsonline.com/sports...779z1-363699321.html

I believe MM said Abby got benched for the drop. Apparently, drops (& fumbles) lead to bench time. Except for Davante Adams.

kills!!!   but you can't teach it and it's not the only ingredient in winning an NFL game.

WR snaps count vs ARI

Randall Cobb: 69

James Jones: 66

Davante Adams: 51

Jared Abbrederis: 14

Jeff Janis: 2

McCarthy was asked about Abby's snaps and he hemmed and hawed and BSd his answer that it was about rotations. Limited snaps was not due to the drop.

Last week the QB says Abby gets open and needs to see the field more, and Abby gets 14 snaps.

Coach calls a run and the QB checks to a pass that goes through the hands of Adams in the EZ.

After Monday's presser:

@PackersNotes 18h18 hours ago

Way to go @jasonjwilde. Perfect follow-up question to MM's ridiculous comment about Abby's lack of playing time.

Wilde called out MM on his hypocrisy. I posted a 2014 highlight thread from Adams last season in the other Adams thread today. Coupled with Jordy, what you are asking for is what it looks like we had just a year ago. I am still hoping TT grabs a speedster WR/TE in the 2016 draft but if Jordy and Monty get healthy and then Abby/Adams return to form then we may have that speed all of us want.

This Adams, Janis, or Abby conversation is really a "of three which has the lowest chance of not being very productive?" circle jerk and everyone is stumping for their guy.  

Adams is a complete mess right now. Janis is not an NFL receiver, yet. Of the three there is little question Abby is probably the guy who should get the majority of the playing time. But Abby is never lasting a 16 game season. He just isn't. I'm sure that's factoring into MM thinking. That and when you're given a chance to earn more PT you can't drop passes. 

And not to go all over analytical. But not all drops are equal. Adams dropped a TD when that game was in the bag for AZ. Abby dropped a ball on 1st and 10 that would have gone for 25 on the first play after AZ went up 7-0. For an offense in need of any plays over 20 yards that hurt. Then there's Adams who catches a 40 yarder and spikes it and draws a penalty. Dumbass. 

These 3 guy's just aren't adding much of anything right now. 

Has anybody besides Lang asked Rodgers why he keeps targeting Adams?

Rodgers also overthrew James Jones who did get open down the sideline. A throw Rodgers makes in his sleep last year

Muscle memory, he was throwing to the 2009 JJ......would have hit him in stride.

The Packers might be better off now if they had decided to get SLOWER a few weeks ago.  Take the extra ineffective pass-catchers off the field, put a fullback on the field and see if the team could have developed a physical downhill running/play-action pass attack.  The Packers seem to have two fullback active every week.  Did Ted draft Ripkowski to play special teams and not do much else (not that I have an issue with that as special teams needed some significant upgrades)?

Rodgers' fundamentals since becoming the Packers' starter have always been a little funky especially footwork.  He's made up for it by being very strong through his core coupled with exceptional arm strength, plus he's usually sound from the waist-up with his mechanics. Probably the best off-platform thrower ever. He's made the ridiculous look commonplace so often that observers have gotten spoiled and a bit jaded in terms of how well he's thrown in the past.

I'm no QBing maven but it seems to me that we've seen even more bad footwork from 12 than usual when throwing this season (even from clean pockets). In the past he's completed so many of those throws, but perhaps Father Time is starting to enter stage left and those poor fundamentals aren't being compensated for as consistently in the way Rodgers was able to do before, seemingly so effortlessly.

At 32, IMO I don't think age is an issue at all. Look at Rivers, Brees, Palmer and Brady. All much older and all playing at a very high level. When you look at the pass he made last week throwing totally on the opposite side of the field across his body and off his feet to Adams, though ruled OOB and incomplete that was a sickening pass. Even Aikman couldn't contain his awe at how well that ball traveled.

Ditto the Hail Mary at DET. Probably 1 or 2 other QB's could ever make that throw. So no Im not buying AR is hurt nor am I thinking age is in any way an issue. On the run, when he feels like, he looks every bit as fast as well

He doesn't trust his OL. Most of his WR's. And he's tuned out his HC. All of that is a mental block he has to get past.

Agree pboi but there's no question 12 has missed more throws, many not that difficult, this season than were used to seeing.

LB's have been covering Cobb all year. He is really slow.

Yep. No argument there. He has to play much much better.

McGinn made the same argument in a column ahead of the Cards game. Almost 3 years to the day after his column saying this team was too "finesse" and needed to be bigger and stronger like the 9ers.

Really hoping the Rams rebuild with nothing but Mermen and hang 47 on the Pack next year to read that Ted has ignored scouting in Atlantis for far too long now.

"Rodgers' fundamentals since becoming the Packers' starter have always been a little funky especially footwork."

I'll beg to differ on that one.  His footwork is top notch.  Stop by training camp sometime and watch the QBs go through their footwork drills - AR makes the rest look like walking invalids.

IL Pack Fan hits the nail on the head. 

If it was only about drafting the fastest, strongest or smartest player, Mel Kiper Jr. would be running an NFL team somewhere.

Brak posted:

Has anybody besides Lang asked Rodgers why he keeps targeting Adams?

In fantasy football. it's hard to let go of your 14th round fave sleeper receiver sometimes.

Tdog posted:

His footwork is top notch. 

It is.  There's also way, way too much of it.

cuqui posted:

Agree pboi but there's no question 12 has missed more throws, many not that difficult, this season than were used to seeing.

I wonder how much of this is a reduction in Rodgers' accuracy versus having receivers that can make adjustments to passes. We see an overthrow to Jones, but that same pass to Jordy Nelson is a TD. We really didn't appreciate how good Nelson was, but in retrospect how many ridiculously good catches did Jordy make on throws that might were slightly off? I went back and watched some highlights. Look at where some of these passes were and how Nelson caught them.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-...n-catches-everything

Some of these are just ridiculous. Rodgers throws a ball that's a good 5 feet off the sideline and Jordy catches it fully extended and gets his feet down. Yesterday, Rodgers throws a great pass to Adams and he catches it but doesn't get his feet down. The passes to Nelson the last few years that weren't that accurate look accurate because it's thrown to Nelson (or Greg Jennings circa 2010). Cobb has never been one to make circus or contested catches and that's the role he's been thrust into. Cobb is a Darren Sproles type with a little more size.

So, Nelson is faster, runs better patterns, and then catches almost anything that's thrown within 6 inches of the ground to 4 feet above his head, and anything within 3-4 feet on either side of him. When Jordy drops a pass (like the bomb in Buffalo last year it's shocking because it seems to happen so infrequently).

Jones can't get open but has a pretty good catch radius. If you think of him as undersized TE, he's pretty good, but he's being used as an outside WR.

Adams can't get open, and unless the ball is perfectly thrown he struggles to catch it. I don't think any of us are surprised when he drops a ball.

Bottom line, a lot of us (at least me) didn't appreciate how good Jordy Nelson was.

In the 8 games Rodgers missed in 2013 (counting the Chicago game in which Rodgers got hurt early), Jordy caught 36 passes for 504 yards with Seneca Wallace, Scott Tolzein, and Matt Flynn throwing him the ball. Keep in mind, Cobb was out for most of these games too and the other WRs were James Jones and Jarrett Boykin.

Hungry5 posted:

WR snaps count vs ARI

Randall Cobb: 69

James Jones: 66

Davante Adams: 51

Jared Abbrederis: 14

Jeff Janis: 2

McCarthy was asked about Abby's snaps and he hemmed and hawed and BSd his answer that it was about rotations. Limited snaps was not due to the drop.

Last week the QB says Abby gets open and needs to see the field more, and Abby gets 14 snaps.

Abbrederis has only been used in the slot, in place of Cobb when Cobb is in the backfield.  He hasn't lined up anywhere else that I know of.  That is where he is on the depth chart as well.

Based on that, and MM dancing around the question about his playing time, it is my belief that Abby only knows Cobb's position (slot).  

It's either that, or Adams has compromising photos of the coaches he's using as blackmail. Nothing else makes sense, except maybe blind stubborn loyalty to the named starter, or the undying belief that Adams will suddenly and magically return to 2014 form.

Tdog posted:

"Rodgers' fundamentals since becoming the Packers' starter have always been a little funky especially footwork."

I'll beg to differ on that one.  His footwork is top notch.  Stop by training camp sometime and watch the QBs go through their footwork drills - AR makes the rest look like walking invalids.

I don't disagree but I'm not talking about drills.  What I was referring to was in-game throwing. Many times he'll throw off the back foot or the wrong foot or while jumping off-balance with both feet in the air. Or my personal favorite, clean pocket and he won't step into the throw.

The guy is the best thrower of the football I've ever seen especially when on the move. My point is that mechanically his arm strength and reflexes have allowed him to skirt a lot of basic fundamentals -- leading often in past years to highlight reel throws. But he's missing a lot of the bunnies he used to hit quite easily.

MP, agree with you completely especially re: Jordy.

Based on Jani's snaps per game he must not know any of the WR positions.

=========================================================Abbrederis had a 4.09 GPA in high school and graduated on time from Wisconsin with his BS degree. He also had a Wonderlic score of 32. There is no fricking way he couldn't learn the other position relatively quickly. He's been with the team for two years - If the coaching staff wasn't at least preparing him to at least line up in Adams' spot in an emergency then the coaches really are as dumb as some of the more emotional posters think.

What's baffling is that the coaches moved a HOF level OLB to ILB during a bye week last year to fix the defense when they saw there was a problem. CM3 is an above average ILB, but he's not the superstar he was at OLB and the defense has lost some playmaking ability as a result.

Now, Abbrederis is not on the same planet in terms of relative ability as CM3, but Adams has been playing at a level at WR that makes AJ Hawk and Brad Jones relative contributions at ILB appear to be at the level of Brian Urlacher. Why in the world wouldn't you try moving a guy like Abbrederis that's not even getting snaps at his other position to a position where the production has been horrifically poor. In other words, you're willing to move a superstar and play them out of position to shore up a weakness, but not move a backup WR to another WR slot to attempt to shore up a weakness? If Abbrederis completely flopped there (and I think he'd be at least an average NFL WR), he couldn't be any worse than Adams is right now.

2014 Wide Receiver Wonderlic Scores:

• Jared Abbrederis (Wisconsin) - 32
• Mike Evans (Texas A&M) - 25
• Kelvin Benjamin (Florida State) - 7
• Jordan Matthews (Fresno State) - 29
• Martavis Bryant (Clemson) - 14
• Jalen Saunders (Oklahoma) - 16
• Josh Brown (Pittsburg State) - 15

cuqui posted:

 

MP, agree with you completely especially re: Jordy.

This highlight just summarizes the difference between last year and this year more than anything.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-...pe-from-Revis-Island

This is a play where Jordy Nelson gains separation in press man-to-man coverage from Darrelle Revis (a future HOF CB still near his prime) by making a great cut to the post. He then catches a pass that is slightly behind him (this was by no means a perfect pass or an easy catch) and then runs across the entire length of the field to outrun most of the defense (getting some help from Cobb who looks faster in this video than he has all this year). The final defender then makes contact with Jordy at about the 5, but Nelson manages to dive to the pylon for the TD.

When was the last time one of our receivers did any of the following?

A. Ran that type of pattern with that type of cut?

B. Caught a pass thrown slightly behind them at full speed without seeming to break stride?

C. Outrun multiple defenders?

D. Beat a defender inside the 5 to get into the end zone?

James Jones has done some of B this year and Cobb caught a nice go route in Carolina, but those types of things are few and far between.

Nelson did this against one of the top cover corners of all-time who was playing for that year's Super Bowl champions.

packerboi posted:

He doesn't trust his OL. Most of his WR's. And he's tuned out his HC. All of that is a mental block he has to get past.

Link?

Billy Schroeder speed?  Charles Jordan speed?  Leshon Johnson speed?  

You don't know speed.

I still thinks Adams must be hurt. when guys lose confidence they don't lose athleticism too.