Played 22 years for St. Louis and is in Hall of Fame
He also won three World Series and a bunch of batting titles, among his many, many achievements.
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Finally a worthwhile post Fedya.
As a baseball historian, I always thought this guy was vastly underrated vs. the greats like DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays and Aaron.
92 years----not bad.
As a baseball historian, I always thought this guy was vastly underrated vs. the greats like DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays and Aaron.
92 years----not bad.
quote:Finally a worthwhile post Fedya.
That's one more than you.
Look at his 1948 and 1962 lines here. Damn.
Hell. Look at 43 - 54. Jeeez. But a .300/.400/.500 season when he's 41.
Married to his wife for SEVENTY FREAKING TWO YEARS, until she passed away last year.
Helluva a ball player, and by all accounts, a helluva man.
Hell. Look at 43 - 54. Jeeez. But a .300/.400/.500 season when he's 41.
Married to his wife for SEVENTY FREAKING TWO YEARS, until she passed away last year.
Helluva a ball player, and by all accounts, a helluva man.
quote:Originally posted by Fedya:quote:Finally a worthwhile post Fedya.
That's one more than you.
You pig.
Things happen in 3's. Stay in your fox holes!!!!!!
72 years in HOF stuff..
72 years in HOF stuff..
quote:Originally posted by Blair Kiel:
Finally a worthwhile post Fedya.
As a baseball historian, I always thought this guy was vastly underrated vs. the greats like DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays and Aaron.
92 years----not bad.
Musial isn't getting the respect he deserves from ESPN. They're more concerned with the Manti T'eo thing. There's a shocker.
Musial is one of the 10 greatest hitters to ever play the game, maybe one of the five greatest.
Seven batting titles
3 time MVP
A .331 lifetime average, 3,630 hits, 475 HR and nearly 2,000 RBI.
He played second fiddle to nobody, including DiMaggio or Williams.
The most amazing stat to me...696 strikeouts..in 12,717 plate appearances. Everybody always made a big deal out of DiMaggio only striking out 369 times, and rightly so. But Musial's total is more impressive when you consider he maintained that same rate, and played 1,300 more games.
If I had to pick my 5 greatest all-time pure hitters, it might look like this:
Williams
Cobb
Ruth
Musial
then either Tony Gwynn or Rod Carew.
Stan Musial was a legend. A true legend.
Stan the Man. No last name necessary.
What he achieved during his career is jaw-dropping, such as: 24 time all-star, never struck out even 50 times in a season, and held 55 records when he retired in 1963.
At the urging of his friend actor John Wayne, he carried autographed cards to give away to fans. Try and find a player these days that would do that. And only a handful of today's players are worthy to tie Musial's shoes.
Of all the alcolades given to Musial, Willie Mays said it best:
"I never heard anyone say a bad word about him--ever."
Thanks for all you did for baseball, Mr. Musial. Your greatness as a ball player is exceeded only by your greatness as a man.
Niech spoczywa w pokoju.
What he achieved during his career is jaw-dropping, such as: 24 time all-star, never struck out even 50 times in a season, and held 55 records when he retired in 1963.
At the urging of his friend actor John Wayne, he carried autographed cards to give away to fans. Try and find a player these days that would do that. And only a handful of today's players are worthy to tie Musial's shoes.
Of all the alcolades given to Musial, Willie Mays said it best:
"I never heard anyone say a bad word about him--ever."
Thanks for all you did for baseball, Mr. Musial. Your greatness as a ball player is exceeded only by your greatness as a man.
Niech spoczywa w pokoju.
Nicely said, Oldtimer. As great as he was on the diamond, he was even better off of it. The man was the living embodiment of class.
God's speed, Stan.
God's speed, Stan.
[URL=http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/musial.gif ]gif[/URL]
What a beautiful swing. Clean. The toe tap, and a smooth, absolutely lethal follow thru.
If I had a DeLorean, and could go back in time, I could spend hours watching Williams and Musial taking batting practice.
Tony Gwinn/Rod Carew over Hammerin Hank Aaron? I don't think so.
quote:Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
Tony Gwinn/Rod Carew over Hammerin Hank Aaron? I don't think so.
As pure hitter? Somebody who could walk up to the plate, and get a hit in a key spot? Absolutely. Gwynn and Carew are two of the best pure hitters to ever play the game. They were the Ty Cobbs of their day.
Gwynn and Carew couldn't approach Aaron's power. Very few players in the history of the game even come close to Hank Aaron's production. But if we're talking pure hitting ability, Aaron isn't quite in the same league.
Aaron won two batting titles. He hit .355 in 1959, his career high, and .328 in 1956. Outside of the 1959 season, Aaron never hit over .330 again. He had a career .305 average, and a .374 OBP. Those numbers are really, really good, especially considering he played for 23 years, and had just under 14,000 plate appearances.
Tony Gwynn was a career .338 hitter with a .388 OBP. He won 8 batting titles, hitting .351, .370, .313, .336, .394, .368, .353 and .372 in those seasons. He was 3 hits shy of batting .400 in 1994.
Rod Carew was a career .328 hitter, winning seven batting titles, hitting .332, .318, .350, .364, .359, .388 and .333. He had a career OBP of .393.
Don't get me wrong, Hank Aaron is one of the top ten offensive players in the history of the game (I could make the argument he was top 5). But he is a notch below Carew and Gwynn as a pure hitter. It didn't make him a better or worse overall player (I'd take Aaron in his prime over either of the other players for his ability to drive the ball), but if we're talking about the ability to hit safely, he is slightly below the other two.
pure hitter = higer batting average?
Then yes. LS is correct.
Pure hitter = better hitter? productive hitter?
If you throw out the two years in Milwaukee, Hank nearly has a 100 point higher OPS than TG. Even if you keep the pool even at "career" then Hank did more when he made contact than Gwynn. Gwynn had 3 seasons with an OPS over .900. Aaron? 17. Carew? 2. The two light hitters had higher career on base percentages (as you might expect) but not that much higher than Aaron (Aaron was the best at drawing a walk).
Then yes. LS is correct.
Pure hitter = better hitter? productive hitter?
If you throw out the two years in Milwaukee, Hank nearly has a 100 point higher OPS than TG. Even if you keep the pool even at "career" then Hank did more when he made contact than Gwynn. Gwynn had 3 seasons with an OPS over .900. Aaron? 17. Carew? 2. The two light hitters had higher career on base percentages (as you might expect) but not that much higher than Aaron (Aaron was the best at drawing a walk).
Thanks for the fact check. I see Gwynn and Carew (Saw him his first season in old Met Stadium) as slap singles hitters. As a huge Braves fan Aaron was Mr. Clutch.
Like I said, given the choice to have any of the three in their prime, Aaron is the no brainer.
To me, pure hitting is just the ability to hit the ball safely. Nothing more. It's taking other things like walks, OPS, etc out of the equation because so many things can factor into each. I do that because the game itself has changed from one generation to the next. When Aaron played, it was much more common for pitchers to throw complete games. Now, you have the setup man, the closer...pitchers that might throw 50 innings in an entire season. So while Aaron might have a comparatively better OBP when both hits and walks + hit by pitch are factored in, Aaron was not seeing a fresh setup man and closer the way that somebody like Pujols has. Of course, if it were Aaron's job to just get on base, and he weren't trying to hit the home run, there's no reason to think he couldn't have hit for more average. All I can do is go off the numbers.
If you're talking most productive hitters in the history of the game, neither Carew or Gwynn can hold a candle to Aaron. They were indeed the slap hitters. I think of players like Ruth, Gehrig, Aaron, Williams, Musial, Pujols, Mays, Bonds and Cabrera as the most productive ever. They could hit for average and power, and drove in runs in bunches.
To me, pure hitting is just the ability to hit the ball safely. Nothing more. It's taking other things like walks, OPS, etc out of the equation because so many things can factor into each. I do that because the game itself has changed from one generation to the next. When Aaron played, it was much more common for pitchers to throw complete games. Now, you have the setup man, the closer...pitchers that might throw 50 innings in an entire season. So while Aaron might have a comparatively better OBP when both hits and walks + hit by pitch are factored in, Aaron was not seeing a fresh setup man and closer the way that somebody like Pujols has. Of course, if it were Aaron's job to just get on base, and he weren't trying to hit the home run, there's no reason to think he couldn't have hit for more average. All I can do is go off the numbers.
If you're talking most productive hitters in the history of the game, neither Carew or Gwynn can hold a candle to Aaron. They were indeed the slap hitters. I think of players like Ruth, Gehrig, Aaron, Williams, Musial, Pujols, Mays, Bonds and Cabrera as the most productive ever. They could hit for average and power, and drove in runs in bunches.