+/- Steelers Packers

+  You know pretty much how every game is going to go so there's no suspense

-  The bar is so low that if you were to read the Love posts, you'd think he threw for 400 yards and we scored 40 points.  But it's baked in that every bad throw is the receiver's fault and even balls that don't make it to the receiver are because the receiver didn't somehow levitate and defy physics and somehow catch a poorly thrown ball. Even swing passes when you need 3 yards the ball is thrown behind the receiver and he has to make the catch and spin and dive for the sticks. He's below average and guys like Dobbs and Stroud are easily outplaying him...but that's probably Watson's fault too.

And Lafleur and his staff suck. Supposedly Love was all world today and we scored a whopping 19 points.

Guys like Clark are stealing. The lack of effort smells like a team going through the motions. They need wholesale changes throughout the organization.

+ Love looked much better today.  Best we’ve seen him since Week 1.

- Love’s 1st game ending INT was yet another under throw.   His 2nd game ending interception didn’t have a prayer.  Should have put some air under it to give a WR a chance.

- Pretty sure Love leads the league in game ending interceptions.

+ Reed, Doubs, and Musgrave are coming along nicely

- Barry playing 2 DL on early downs, including 1st n goal from 4.   Took the ball out Pickets hands..  genius

- How do they justify a roster spot for Dequara?    

- Still Runyon over Rhyan.   Why?

+ Kids on defense play with heart.  

@PackerRick posted:

Rodgers threw 13 his first year as a starter.

Really??  Hmmmmmmm.   ♥️  has 10 INT’s already, and he’s been sacked 19 times.

@Goldie posted:

Really??  Hmmmmmmm.   ♥️  has 10 INT’s already, and he’s been sacked 19 times.

None are his fault🤔

@Boris posted:

We have to get above the Bears 2nd pick.

- I predicted 24 fo Steelers.....Alas....I was Rong.

- Ammo predicted 27 for Packers ...Alas he was Rong.

+ Something tells me they're not going to finish 3-14 (Is this a negative??)

If the refs hadn't fucked us over I would have been right on.    Oh yah, if Degura blocked too.   

-----And I'm blaming YaYa for the loss. He gave me a thumbs down when I predicted 27 for the Packers.  Yep, it's his fault.   

+++  Dillon is improving game by game.

+ Jordan Love looked like at least an average NFL starting QB.

++ Reed & Musgrave look like legitimate, long-term receiving threats.

+++ Zach Tom is good and seems like a team leader. Like him a lot.

++++ Pack currently have the 6th, 38th, 48th, 70th, and 81st picks in the 2024 draft.

-Aaron Jones is my favorite Packer, but he should not be on the roster in 2024 as he is old, expensive, injured, and less and less effective.

- -Joe Barry deciding that he would not force Kenny Pickett to beat them and instead let Pittsburgh run wild is yet another example of why he SHOULD be fired after the 2023 season.

- - - Christian Watson does not look like he is going to be a #1 WR based on his hands and his lack of physicality.

- - - - Pack may have a slew of picks, but Gutey will be the one making the selections.

@antiworst posted:

-  The bar is so low that if you were to read the Love posts, you'd think he threw for 400 yards and we scored 40 points.  But it's baked in that every bad throw is the receiver's fault and even balls that don't make it to the receiver are because the receiver didn't somehow levitate and defy physics and somehow catch a poorly thrown ball. Even swing passes when you need 3 yards the ball is thrown behind the receiver and he has to make the catch and spin and dive for the sticks. He's below average and guys like Dobbs and Stroud are easily outplaying him...but that's probably Watson's fault too.

And Lafleur and his staff suck. Supposedly Love was all world today and we scored a whopping 19 points.

And when you look at the other side of the argument, people want the guy benched and traded. What's the magic number of games a qb should get? He kept them in the game today. He threw 2 ints that kept them from possibly winning. JC you people are spoiled af. I mean, imagine if he didn't have the veteran presence of Aaron Jones to help him out with less than a minute left in the game.

@Goldie posted:

Really??  Hmmmmmmm.   ♥️  has 10 INT’s already, and he’s been sacked 19 times.

Driver, Jennings, Nelson, James Jones, and Ryan Grant? Probably none of those guys Rodgers played with would start on this team.

+Watson wasn't hurt today?

-Watson wasn't hurt today.

I'm taking a crack at analysis, so let's see what happens. Whether I'm right or wrong, it was a fun exercise. And we fans always have the advantage of hindsight.

My biggest complaint with Love's play has been his lack of anticipation seeing who is about to break open and then pulling the trigger before the WR comes open. On the last play, if Love had looked to his left, he had a chance to prove he could do that and maybe win the game.

Love still has the ball, but has not looked left; he's cut the field in half. Watson is driving to the EZ. Up top, Doubs is on the outside. Love may have decided from the snap to go to Watson, but you'd like to see him use his eyes or even a little body fake to misdirect defenders. My only question here is if Love can see Doubs, but it looks like the scrum is slightly to Love's right and he has a window. Love also could have rolled out to his left as the Pitt rusher was moving or being moved to the inside to squeeze the pocket; if he had, he could have seen the field better and given his WRs more time to work open.

Just after Love releases the ball, which touching the 20. Doubs is just finishing his break to the inside. If Love had gone to Doubs, the ball should be hitting him in the hands just about now. Even if this ball was on its way to Doubs right now rather than to Watson...

I have faith that out of all the WRs, Doubs would get his body into a position to screen off the DB to make the catch. The ball is touching the first-down line. At the top, you can see where Doubs is in relation to the DBs. OTOH, Watson is just turning toward the ball at the goal line. Either he was late looking or was supposed to drive another step or two before expecting the ball. The DB watches Love's eyes and makes an easy break on the ball.

Watson has no chance at the ball as Love throws another flat, short ball. At the top, you can see how when the other WR cut to the outside, the DBs hesitated a split second, leaving a little pocket where Doubs was open for that moment. If Love had thrown to Doubs and hit him in stride on his break, who knows? Pitt's defenders up top are just starting to move forward here.

So, that's what I saw. I had hoped Love would be a bit more advanced as far as reading the play, looking off DBs, and in anticipating a guy breaking open. He made some really good throws today and played with more confidence, but a game like today is where a QB can make his name. He has less than half a season to show he can do it.

Damn I was just thinking when we got the lead late if we could string together 2 wins I'd be pretty happy with resilience of the team. Ugh. We just shoot ourselves in the foot time and again.

Watson playing volleyball with what could have been the winning TD. Wtf man. He's approaching Amari Rodgers level in my book. I think he's actually hurting the team more than what he provides. Catch the fucking ball kid.

The offense had flashes today. Love looked good overall, rbs looked solid. Doubs Reed Musgrave and wicks showed up.the play calling was creative. But man we had chances.

I rarely say this but the refs were awful. Horrible pi call and that MF lateral were killers.

Ugh. At this point I just want to see progress over the remaining weeks to carry momentum into 2024. I saw that today except for Watson who I'm starting to seriously doubt he can ever be The Guy.

@YATittle posted:

Watson is horrible. Has no clue what it means to

play in the NFL

Obviously he has no real work ethic to hone his massive talent.

@Fandame posted:

Love still has the ball, but has not looked left; he's cut the field in half. Watson is driving to the EZ. Up top, Doubs is on the outside. Love may have decided from the snap to go to Watson, but you'd like to see him use his eyes or even a little body fake to misdirect defenders. My only question here is if Love can see Doubs, but it looks like the scrum is slightly to Love's right and he has a window. Love also could have rolled out to his left as the Pitt rusher was moving or being moved to the inside to squeeze the pocket; if he had, he could have seen the field better and given his WRs more time to work open.

Just after Love releases the ball, which touching the 20. Doubs is just finishing his break to the inside. If Love had gone to Doubs, the ball should be hitting him in the hands just about now. Even if this ball was on its way to Doubs right now rather than to Watson...

I agree with lacking anticipation at times, but the issue here is there's no throwing lane.

1. Wallace gets pushed right into Love's left side.

2. Jenkins helped Myers initially but had to hold too long to slide out to help Wallace.

3. Myers collapsed as soon as Jenkins released.

4. Runyan got pushed right back, as well.

5. Tom has Watt wide, but he's right in the escape lane if Love tries to get out.

Gary's been fairly quiet recently. I see he hasn't had a sack in the last 4 games. I honestly haven't noticed, has he been being doubled/chipped a lot or is it something else?

I knew after watching Van Ness a lot at Iowa he was going to be a project, but I've been somewhat disappointed in both his and Wyatt's play so far this year. Expected a few more splash plays.

+ The rookie skill guys had good days.  Musgrave finally translated his excellent speed at TE into production.

+ AJ Dillon had a solid day

- Just overall, this team shows nothing great that they can build on to become a Super Bowl Champion.  I’ll be fair to the defensive front 7 and say they are undercoached which makes them tougher to evaluate.  Overall, for all the resources the Pack has put into that front 7 it’s just been a disappointment to see their lackluster play.

- Jordan Love has just not been good enough at the end of games and typically that’s where you need your QB to be at their best.  He was good vs Bears, Saints, and Rams at the end but ended things poorly vs Broncos, Raiders, Falcons, and Steelers.  The Lions game we never really competed in and was just a disaster.

Let’s just hope Love has another level than what we’ve seen so far.  To be fair to him, he’s far from the biggest problem the Pack has, but his shaky play at ends of games also hasn’t confirmed he’s the definite long term starter we hoped he might be.

I admittedly haven't seen all the games this year but today was the first game I saw our receivers open with space around them on several occasions.  I don't recall seeing that since WK01.  MLF was getting guys open and just maybe those routes were run correctly.

@Maxi54 posted:

Gary's been fairly quiet recently. I see he hasn't had a sack in the last 4 games. I honestly haven't noticed, has he been being doubled/chipped a lot or is it something else?

I knew after watching Van Ness a lot at Iowa he was going to be a project, but I've been somewhat disappointed in both his and Wyatt's play so far this year. Expected a few more splash plays.

Gary has had some plays wiped out by penalties.  

@Herschel posted:

I agree with lacking anticipation at times, but the issue here is there's no throwing lane.

1. Wallace gets pushed right into Love's left side.

2. Jenkins helped Myers initially but had to hold too long to slide out to help Wallace.

3. Myers collapsed as soon as Jenkins released.

4. Runyan got pushed right back, as well.

5. Tom has Watt wide, but he's right in the escape lane if Love tries to get out.

Here's where you'll note that I said, "Love also could have rolled out to his left as the Pitt rusher was moving or being moved to the inside to squeeze the pocket; if he had, he could have seen the field better and given his WRs more time to work open." But the pocket collapsed as shown here after he could have thrown to Doubs as well. But I agree that when Love went to throw, the pocket looked more like a scrum. And as you look at your pic, he probably wasn't able to see Watson very well either. Love seemed locked into what he planned to do and didn't read the field or feel the pressure very well.

_

Packers needed to make the QB beat them and they couldn't. Return of the abysmal and porous run defense really sealed the loss.

Not going to blame the officials for the loss but no excuse for not getting the lateral right.

Good to see some growth from the offense but need to see more. Too big a struggle to just reach twenty points.

Tough day for Aaron Jones (and Watson).

Blocked XP really changed the game.

+

Love played better but need to see more.

Flashes continue from the young players.

MLF said in his presser that even when they "made some calls designed to stop the run", the Steelers still gained yards. However, I can't recall a run of over 3 yards vs a 5 man front? Even when they passed when we were in that look, we were able to get pressure on the QB. Would love to see a breakdown of average yards gained via what defensive group we had on the field.

@fightphoe93 posted:

Let’s just hope Love has another level than what we’ve seen so far.  To be fair to him, he’s far from the biggest problem the Pack has, but his shaky play at ends of games also hasn’t confirmed he’s the definite long term starter we hoped he might be.

I think at the end of games we are seeing an inexperienced QB.  Yes he has been in the system for 4 years but in playing time he is still basically a rookie.  If the Packers can give him consistent OL and RB play I think he will progress even more.

This team on offense is so young but you can start to see them gelling a bit and they are making progress.  Slow yes but they are showing signs. 

Defensively?  they cannot continue giving up so many yards rushing.  They gave up 205 yesterday and hopefully the defense can get that under control sometime in our lifetime.

@packerboi posted:

Officiating once again blows a huge call. That was a lateral pass and should have been a Gary TD. Completely different game if they call it correctly.

I was at a Bar watching the game. I could not hear the announcers so I did not hear the explanation by the ref....The replay CLEARLY shows it was a lateral! How did they not call this?  I was so pissed along with 5 other GB fans....

@Iowacheese posted:

Sconnie fans waxing nostalgic for Graham Mertz.  And Paul Chryst. And Bret Bulimia

...and Jim Leonhard...

@Dave in GA posted:

I was at a Bar watching the game. I could not hear the announcers so I did not hear the explanation by the ref....The replay CLEARLY shows it was a lateral! How did they not call this?  I was so pissed along with 5 other GB fans....

tough crowd!

Barry is the bizzaro-Belichick.  He takes the opposing team's weakness and makes it their strength.

+++ Dillon, Wicks, Musgrave, Watson and Nixon all made at least one big play. Packers looked like a football team out there. No slow start. A TD on our 1st drive of the game!! Reed was really good!

----Our STs stunk it up, a lot! Dillon, Wicks, Musgrave, Watson and Nixon didn't seem to do much, after making their big plays. Officiating blew the call on the fumbled lateral and recovery for a TD, by Gary. It was easy to see, on the TV, that the receiver was behind the QB, when he caught and dropped the ball. Gene Sterator, the NFL Enforcer, for this game, said it was a "bad angle" for the ref. It would have been a bad angle for the ref if he would have been in Clairton, instead of on the field. They blew that call, big time. Who knows what would have happened, if the TD was allowed? It would have given us the lead and we did lose by less than a TD, so we have a legitimate beef with the officiating, once again! Deguara stunk it up, too. He allowed the defender to block our PAT. He was in a fog when he was supposed to be blocking defenders. Lots of soft D, again.  2 down linemen on D allowed the Steelers to run through us. Poor tackling, too. Again, lots to work on. Did Sean Rhyan see the field?

@The Heckler posted:

I think at the end of games we are seeing an inexperienced QB.  Yes he has been in the system for 4 years but in playing time he is still basically a rookie.  If the Packers can give him consistent OL and RB play I think he will progress even more.

This team on offense is so young but you can start to see them gelling a bit and they are making progress.  Slow yes but they are showing signs.

Defensively?  they cannot continue giving up so many yards rushing.  They gave up 205 yesterday and hopefully the defense can get that under control sometime in our lifetime.

The Packers have 7 guys in their front seven that were either 1st round picks or have contracts over 50 million. Either they missed on every single one of these decisions, or the DC is failing to use the talent he's been given. I think the latter is much more likely.

Kenny Clark - 4 years/70 million

Rashan Gary - 4 years/96 million

Preston Smith - 4 years/52 million

D. Campbell - 5 years/50 million

L. Van Ness - 1st round, 2023 (13th overall)

Q. Walker - 1st round, 2022 (22nd overall)

D. Wyatt - 1st round, 2022 (28th overall)

Wooden - 4th round, 2023

Enagbare - 5th round, 2022

Slaton - 5th round, 2021

McDuffie - 6th round, 2021

Thought this interesting from Watson’s dad……….

“What amazes me about this Green Bay Packers fan base, and some of you reporters quite frankly, is the fact that this team, which is literally the youngest in the NFL, was not expected to even compete this season, yet have found a way to be in every game. You all are about as bad as it gets, and I played in Philly with their schizophrenic fans.

Quite frankly, you all were awful to Aaron Rodgers when he took over for Favre, and pretty much any time he wasn’t perfect on the field! You wanted Davante Adams to be cut by his 2nd season… AND you somehow think you “deserve” better than what this team is?!? You all don’t deserve a damn thing but to support the players who’re out there playing their asses off, if you choose to be fans!

#FairweatherFans

#GoPackGo”

On Twitter, Tazim Wajed, Watson’s father, spoke his mind to Packers fans.

@MichiganPacker posted:

The Packers have 7 guys in their front seven that were either 1st round picks or have contracts over 50 million. Either they missed on every single one of these decisions, or the DC is failing to use the talent he's been given. I think the latter is much more likely.

Kenny Clark - 4 years/70 million

Rashan Gary - 4 years/96 million

Preston Smith - 4 years/52 million

D. Campbell - 5 years/50 million

L. Van Ness - 1st round, 2023 (13th overall)

Q. Walker - 1st round, 2022 (22nd overall)

D. Wyatt - 1st round, 2022 (28th overall)

Wooden - 4th round, 2023

Enagbare - 5th round, 2022

Slaton - 5th round, 2021

McDuffie - 6th round, 2021

To make this even worse, the Steelers start an OL with one first round pick on it (and that guy, their 2023 1st round pick didn't beat out the incumbent until two weeks ago). It's filled with mid-ranged price vets. The three veteran guys in the middle of their OL make just a little more cumulatively what Jenkins does by himself.

LT Dan Moore, 4th round, 2021

LG Seumalo, 3 years, 24 million

C  Mason Cole, 3 years, 15 million

RG Daniels, 3 years, 26 million

RT Jones, 1st round, 2024, (14th overall)

@Goldie posted:

Thought this interesting from Watson’s dad……….

“What amazes me about this Green Bay Packers fan base, and some of you reporters quite frankly, is the fact that this team, which is literally the youngest in the NFL, was not expected to even compete this season, yet have found a way to be in every game. You all are about as bad as it gets, and I played in Philly with their schizophrenic fans.

Quite frankly, you all were awful to Aaron Rodgers when he took over for Favre, and pretty much any time he wasn’t perfect on the field! You wanted Davante Adams to be cut by his 2nd season… AND you somehow think you “deserve” better than what this team is?!? You all don’t deserve a damn thing but to support the players who’re out there playing their asses off, if you choose to be fans!

#FairweatherFans

#GoPackGo”

On Twitter, Tazim Wajed, Watson’s father, spoke his mind to Packers fans.

I think they should trade Christian Watson to the Jets or Giants and have him experience what a big media market would be like for a guy that doesn't seem to put in the work to get better.

Also, if I'm a reporter and want to stir up some controversy and clicks, I'm contacting Tarim Wajed to see what he thinks of the Packers coaching staff and Jordan Love.

@The Heckler posted:

I think at the end of games we are seeing an inexperienced QB.  Yes he has been in the system for 4 years but in playing time he is still basically a rookie.

This is why I hated MLF sitting on the ball at the end of the half.   Give the kid the reps NOW when the opps present themselves.

@BrainDed posted:

This is why I hated MLF sitting on the ball at the end of the half.   Give the kid the reps NOW when the opps present themselves.

Yes….those 40 or so seconds may have paid dividends in the kids future.  If he converts it would be a confidence booster and who among us haven’t learned from failure?

@The Heckler posted:

I think at the end of games we are seeing an inexperienced QB.  Yes he has been in the system for 4 years but in playing time he is still basically a rookie.  If the Packers can give him consistent OL and RB play I think he will progress even more.

This team on offense is so young but you can start to see them gelling a bit and they are making progress.  Slow yes but they are showing signs.

Defensively?  they cannot continue giving up so many yards rushing.  They gave up 205 yesterday and hopefully the defense can get that under control sometime in our lifetime.

Yes. Who can Love actually count on to help him out? Jones was disaster yesterday. Dillion has picked himself off of the shit pile somewhat but Doubs and Reed will make a great play then drop one.

The Packer defense put the team in a big hole falling behind by 10 points on the Steelers first 3 possessions.

The blocked XP was huge.

How can a washed up CB make the two biggest plays of the game?

We have no #1 WR.

We do not have a bell cow RB.

Our bend but don't break defense continually leaves the offense with long fields. We can count on one hand the number of times a turnover has given the Packers points or a short field. And the pass rush has been weak all season, not enough sacks.

This is the 4th loss where the defense gave up the game winning points in the 4th qtr.

--------------------

The offense fought back from a double digit deficit to take the lead late in the 3rd qtr.

Several players on offense made strides, something we must see this season or next season could easily play out like this season.

The pass defense played well considering every guy in the secondary is really a reserve. Why the Steelers ever passed will be a mystery. Normally a team would run the ball until the opponent proves they can stop it.

@Goldie posted:

Thought this interesting from Watson’s dad……….

“What amazes me about this Green Bay Packers fan base, and some of you reporters quite frankly, is the fact that this team, which is literally the youngest in the NFL, was not expected to even compete this season, yet have found a way to be in every game. You all are about as bad as it gets, and I played in Philly with their schizophrenic fans.

Quite frankly, you all were awful to Aaron Rodgers when he took over for Favre, and pretty much any time he wasn’t perfect on the field! You wanted Davante Adams to be cut by his 2nd season… AND you somehow think you “deserve” better than what this team is?!? You all don’t deserve a damn thing but to support the players who’re out there playing their asses off, if you choose to be fans!

#FairweatherFans

#GoPackGo”

On Twitter, Tazim Wajed, Watson’s father, spoke his mind to Packers fans.

This guy doesn't know jack about what was going on in GB with Rodgers or Adams back in those years. He couldn't locate GB on a map until his kid got drafted by the Packers.

I mean, I don't think he's too far off from the truth.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Yes….those 40 or so seconds may have paid dividends in the kids future.  If he converts it would be a confidence booster and who among us haven’t learned from failure?

Or it could have been a confidence deflator. Love has been put in way too many "can't win" situations all season. Everything that could go wrong has.

As an administrator, never put a person in a position to fail.

And that was clearly the case after the first down play, where they were making a go of it, lost 5 yards. 2nd and 15 on your own 10 yard line? One incomplete pass and PITT has enough time outs to take possession on the Packer side of the 50. All that will happen is the Packers give up a FG and give the Steelers momentum going into halftime. Down 4 and getting the ball to start the 2nd half? Not a hard decision.

@PackerRick posted:

This guy doesn't know jack about what was going on in GB with Rodgers or Adams back in those years. He couldn't locate GB on a map until his kid got drafted by the Packers.

He was a 6th round draft pick of the Packers in 1993.

Quarterbacks succeed in can’t win situations regularly.