+/- Steelers Packers

@PackerHawk posted:

I mean, I don't think he's too far off from the truth.

I think they were expected to be much better than they have shown. They've shot themselves in the foot numerous times against weak opponents to lose 4-5 games they should have won. So he's wrong about not being expected to compete.

I think the press and fans could tolerate drops and bad throws a lot better if there were no missed assignments, dumb penalties, wrong routes, bad play calling, and various other mental mistakes like Jones not running OB when he has to save the clock. The Packers have beat themselves in every game except DET.

@PackLandVA posted:

He was a 6th round draft pick of the Packers in 1993.

You understand what I'm saying. He was nowhere near GB to be making comments on Rodgers and Adams. Any fanbase would be hammering the Packers.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Quarterbacks succeed in can’t win situations regularly.  

Regularly? I don't believe that. Not with the cast Love is playing with.

Love threw some nice deep balls, he may not be Chuck Knoblauch

As for the last play, obviously our odds are against us, but once you saw how the Steelers lined up, wasn’t your instinct to call a short pass with blocking and try cross the goal line with a head of steam?   Not that the call would have guaranteed anything, but throwing into the EZ was never going to work.  

if Anyone sees Barry, thank him for the top 10 pick

@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:

As for the last play, obviously our odds are against us, but once you saw how the Steelers lined up, wasn’t your instinct to call a short pass with blocking and try cross the goal line with a head of steam?   Not that the call would have guaranteed anything, but throwing into the EZ was never going to work.  

I think a Hail Mary has a better chance of succeeding more than throwing into that coverage.

@PackerRick posted:

I think they were expected to be much better than they have shown. They've shot themselves in the foot numerous times against weak opponents to lose 4-5 games they should have won. So he's wrong about not being expected to compete.

I don't know about "expected". Preseason projections were all over the place but I saw a number of 3rd place predictions and generally a below .500 record.

I do agree though that they have lost a number of winnable games (Atlanta, LV, Denver, Steelers) and they also beat the Saints when the Saints had the game won with less than 8 minutes left. Personally I expected this type of season with the makeup of the roster. A couple of lucky bounces and 5-3 wouldn't be a surprise at this point either. I can't get on board with cheering for losses right now but I'm not going to complain about them either as long as it ends with a nice draft slot.

@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:

if Anyone sees Barry, thank him for the top 10 pick

I'd be too busy kicking him in the nads first. He might not hear me after that.

Thank him first, then the nut kick.

Unbelievable, still.

@D J posted:

Obviously he has no real work ethic to hone his massive talent.

Or coaches to kick his ass.

@MichiganPacker posted:

To make this even worse, the Steelers start an OL with one first round pick on it (and that guy, their 2023 1st round pick didn't beat out the incumbent until two weeks ago). It's filled with mid-ranged price vets. The three veteran guys in the middle of their OL make just a little more cumulatively what Jenkins does by himself.

LT Dan Moore, 4th round, 2021

LG Seumalo, 3 years, 24 million

C  Mason Cole, 3 years, 15 million

RG Daniels, 3 years, 26 million

RT Jones, 1st round, 2024, (14th overall)

That's good scouting.  Which we don't have.

@Goldie posted:

Thought this interesting from Watson’s dad……….

“What amazes me about this Green Bay Packers fan base, and some of you reporters quite frankly, is the fact that this team, which is literally the youngest in the NFL, was not expected to even compete this season, yet have found a way to be in every game. You all are about as bad as it gets, and I played in Philly with their schizophrenic fans.

Quite frankly, you all were awful to Aaron Rodgers when he took over for Favre, and pretty much any time he wasn’t perfect on the field! You wanted Davante Adams to be cut by his 2nd season… AND you somehow think you “deserve” better than what this team is?!? You all don’t deserve a damn thing but to support the players who’re out there playing their asses off, if you choose to be fans!

#FairweatherFans

#GoPackGo”

On Twitter, Tazim Wajed, Watson’s father, spoke his mind to Packers fans.

He sounds like a guy that's pissed off his kid is sucking and blaming it on the fans.  Maybe, dad, just maybe, what Watson needs is a kick in the ass which this coaching staff seems unwilling to do to anyone.

@H5 posted:

   

Unbelievable, still.

I was on the road yesterday and I listened to the game on Sirius and they had the Steelers broadcast on.  They were openly shocked that this call was not over turned.  They just sad WOW and they couldn't believe it.

@Goldie posted:

Thought this interesting from Watson’s dad……….

“What amazes me about this Green Bay Packers fan base, and some of you reporters quite frankly, is the fact that this team, which is literally the youngest in the NFL, was not expected to even compete this season, yet have found a way to be in every game. You all are about as bad as it gets, and I played in Philly with their schizophrenic fans.

Quite frankly, you all were awful to Aaron Rodgers when he took over for Favre, and pretty much any time he wasn’t perfect on the field! You wanted Davante Adams to be cut by his 2nd season… AND you somehow think you “deserve” better than what this team is?!? You all don’t deserve a damn thing but to support the players who’re out there playing their asses off, if you choose to be fans!

#FairweatherFans

#GoPackGo”

On Twitter, Tazim Wajed, Watson’s father, spoke his mind to Packers fans.

Your son is weak.

@PackerRick posted:

I think a Hail Mary has a better chance of succeeding more than throwing into that coverage.

I think Love should have first rolled out to his left when the pocket started getting squeezed, scrambled around a bit, and tried to find someone to break coverage. From outside the pocket, he would have had a better view of just where his receivers were; if no one broke open, then you toss it up for a mini-Hail Mary or a basketball-type rebound play. Let Musgrave out-muscle a DB.

@PackerHawk posted:

I do agree though that they have lost a number of winnable games (Atlanta, LV, Denver, Steelers)

Add the Vikings to that list as well. They played like crap for half the game and then couldn't cash in opportunities when Cousins went out. Only DET has beaten them. The rest were pretty pathetic performances that even a decent game gets a win.

@Harry Manback posted:

That's good scouting.  Which we don't have.

I questioned this a few weeks ago. If you look at the resume of 2-3 of these guys they had jobs unrelated to FB just a few years ago.

Here's out west coast scout.

This will be fun as Dobbs, the new MN QB, has been playing well for them. He's played almost two games (Saints and Falcons) and gotten two wins. He's much more mobile than Cousins. So, do they sign him to a long-term contract or is he a flash in the pan?

I'll give them this: O'Connell can coach. I think we may have gotten the wrong Rams assistant.

@Fandame posted:

I'll give them this: O'Connell can coach. I think we may have gotten the wrong Rams assistant.

O'Connell can also admit a coaching mistake and quickly move on ... and he coaches for a team whose owners were willing to eat the financial consequences of his mistake.

Hiring Ed Donatell was a disaster. Firing Donatell after just one season was the only answer even if it was not best for the Queens' financial bottom line.

Replacing Donatell with Brian Flores was a huge win that has already paid off massively for a Minnesota defense that was among the worst in the NFL in 2022 and is about 6 1st round picks shy of what Green Bay trots out in 2023.

In Green Bay, we are in year 3 of the Barry experiment ... but we are not paying Joe not to coach so at least Murph's bottom line isn't suffering.

If the return of LaFluffy and Gutendumdum is guaranteed (which I think it is sadly) they had better open the checkbook, crypto, apple pay whatever the F.   For the best available defensive mind. 

I have zero hope for the D this year.  Get all the young guys more snaps both sides of the ball.  Play fucking LVN.  Limiting his snaps on a shitty D makes zero sense.

Christian Watson now ranks 121 of 121 WR/TE/RB on catch rate per Next Gen Stats! Yikes.

He has caught just 42.42% of the passes thrown to him this season.

Not surprising. Watson makes Love's job harder. If you watch Watson run his patterns, you can see that unless the ball comes his way pretty early in the play, he tends to slow down and that lets the DB back into coverage. Definitely, Love has to make his decisions faster, but Watson may be in the clear if he runs fast.

"Christian Watson has been used almost exclusively as a deep threat, and there's little nuance and route running ability in his game. At this point in his career, he is a supercharged role player, a better version of Marquez Valdes-Scantling. Which didn't seem like a fair comparison right after the draft makes more sense now, even though Watson is more talented and has much more upside." Linky

MLF also said earlier today that he wants Watson to play much faster, more descicively, with more aggression. At the end, Watson uses the DB's positioning as an excuse for why he didn't run the route better. Linky.

That's worrisome as this isn't the only time Watson has offered an excuse and/or said the whole team needs to play better. It appears like he's looking into the mirror with rose-colored glasses.

Love just needs to stay away from Watson. He's terrible on routes and really can't create separation unless it's straight line speed. But even that doesn't work unless there is a lot of field to work with. On the first INT Peterson was with Watson step for step because he isn't committing to a lousy route. Keep in mind Peterson is the guy Watson beat by 5+ yard for his infamous drop to start the season against the Vikes last year.

In my best TT voice, " I don't think Watson is in the same league as Marquez Valdes-Scantling quite frankly!"

@SteveLuke posted:

O'Connell can also admit a coaching mistake and quickly move on ... and he coaches for a team whose owners were willing to eat the financial consequences of his mistake.

Hiring Ed Donatell was a disaster. Firing Donatell after just one season was the only answer even if it was not best for the Queens' financial bottom line.

Replacing Donatell with Brian Flores was a huge win that has already paid off massively for a Minnesota defense that was among the worst in the NFL in 2022 and is about 6 1st round picks shy of what Green Bay trots out in 2023.

In Green Bay, we are in year 3 of the Barry experiment ... but we are not paying Joe not to coach so at least Murph's bottom line isn't suffering.

Sledding hills cost money, buddy!

@Fandame posted:

Not surprising. Watson makes Love's job harder. If you watch Watson run his patterns, you can see that unless the ball comes his way pretty early in the play, he tends to slow down and that lets the DB back into coverage. Definitely, Love has to make his decisions faster, but Watson may be in the clear if he runs fast.

"Christian Watson has been used almost exclusively as a deep threat, and there's little nuance and route running ability in his game. At this point in his career, he is a supercharged role player, a better version of Marquez Valdes-Scantling. Which didn't seem like a fair comparison right after the draft makes more sense now, even though Watson is more talented and has much more upside." Linky

MLF also said earlier today that he wants Watson to play much faster, more descicively, with more aggression. At the end, Watson uses the DB's positioning as an excuse for why he didn't run the route better. Linky.

That's worrisome as this isn't the only time Watson has offered an excuse and/or said the whole team needs to play better. It appears like he's looking into the mirror with rose-colored glasses.

Maybe he’s talking to his dad who is about as postive an influence on the team as Greg Jennings’ sister

The Green Bay Packers hit a new low for tackling on Sunday against Najee Harris and Jaylen Warren of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

According to data collected by Pro Football Focus, the Packers missed 16 total tackles against the Steelers, setting a new season high in 2023.

The team’s previous high was 13 misses, which most recently happened in Denver during a loss to the Broncos.

LeRoy Butler was talking about the run defense and made some points familiar to what many have said here. No matter what MLF wants to call them, in Nickel you have 4 defenders on the LOS, with a TE, the offense has 6 blockers, unless you have a couple of the 4 up front beat their block, the RB is going to get to the second level (4-5 yards) before we even have a chance to tackle him. Silverstein said his guess is that they did this because they didn't think one of our safeties could cover one of their WRs (which he would have to unless you played some type of zone coverage. Butler said "you make Pickett beat you".

@PackerRick posted:

Love just needs to stay away from Watson. He's terrible on routes and really can't create separation unless it's straight line speed. But even that doesn't work unless there is a lot of field to work with. On the first INT Peterson was with Watson step for step because he isn't committing to a lousy route. Keep in mind Peterson is the guy Watson beat by 5+ yard for his infamous drop to start the season against the Vikes last year.

To me at this point I say just use Watson as a decoy.  Send him deep on every play in the hopes he takes a safety with him so someone who can actually catch a football get open.  If he does manage to get so open space maybe take a shot in his direction to try and keep the defense honest.

@Fandame posted:

Not surprising. Watson makes Love's job harder. If you watch Watson run his patterns, you can see that unless the ball comes his way pretty early in the play, he tends to slow down and that lets the DB back into coverage. Definitely, Love has to make his decisions faster, but Watson may be in the clear if he runs fast.

"Christian Watson has been used almost exclusively as a deep threat, and there's little nuance and route running ability in his game. At this point in his career, he is a supercharged role player, a better version of Marquez Valdes-Scantling. Which didn't seem like a fair comparison right after the draft makes more sense now, even though Watson is more talented and has much more upside." Linky

MLF also said earlier today that he wants Watson to play much faster, more descicively, with more aggression. At the end, Watson uses the DB's positioning as an excuse for why he didn't run the route better. Linky.

That's worrisome as this isn't the only time Watson has offered an excuse and/or said the whole team needs to play better. It appears like he's looking into the mirror with rose-colored glasses.

In those plays, where he is in the end zone, he has no more room, to run faster. Love has to throw the ball sooner and more accurately, and Watson has to go up and get it. I feel Reed is better than Watson in tight situations, like that.

@The Heckler posted:

To me at this point I say just use Watson as a decoy.  Send him deep on every play in the hopes he takes a safety with him so someone who can actually catch a football get open.  If he does manage to get so open space maybe take a shot in his direction to try and keep the defense honest.

He's already doing this.  Someone posted a chart on twitter showing IIRC that Watson is double covered more than any other WR in the league right now.  He's drawing a ton of attention and it may be at least partially why we're starting to see guys like Reed and Wicks get wide ass open.

@FLPACKER posted:

No matter what MLF wants to call them, in Nickel you have 4 defenders on the LOS, with a TE, the offense has 6 blockers, unless you have a couple of the 4 up front beat their block, the RB is going to get to the second level (4-5 yards) before we even have a chance to tackle him.

Spot on.  After MLF's rant and trying to justify it as 'would any team want a RB blocking one of our outside LBers' didn't make any sense.   With 5 or 6 blockers against 2 DL and 2 LB they are going to win that every single snap.   If there's a RB acting as a lead blocker they won't have to worry about any ends on the LOS.

Game planning for the GBP O and D must take about 13 seconds.  

The rest of the week with feet up on the desk.  Or looking at feet at their desk

@mrtundra posted:

In those plays, where he is in the end zone, he has no more room, to run faster. Love has to throw the ball sooner and more accurately, and Watson has to go up and get it. I feel Reed is better than Watson in tight situations, like that.

I totally agree that Reed and even Doubs are better in tighter situations than is Watson. However, if you watch, Watson even slows down if he's not the primary or if he doesn't get the ball right away even when he has lots of space to work with.

Wicks should be playing ahead of Watson and maybe Heath should get some opportunities as well. We haven't seen much of Heath but he appeared to be a solid possession receiver. We could use someone that's reliable in that role.

@PackerRick posted:

Wicks should be playing ahead of Watson and maybe Heath should get some opportunities as well. We haven't seen much of Heath but he appeared to be a solid possession receiver. We could use someone that's reliable in that role.

THIS!