He has a groin injury & can't go full speed. He's gutting it out. Hopefully it will heal in time for the playoffs
It isn't going to get better if he keeps playing with it.....
He is playing with his groin? He needs to stop that immediately before he goes blind. 'Splains a lot though. Can't see the QB.
Read option QB's are causing him problems IMHO. Against Miami on a few occasions the announcers showed replays where if he crashed inside toward the RB the QB kept it and ran around him. If he stayed outside to contain the QB the RB got the ball and ran inside.
You're quite possibly completely wrong here. Look back at all the guff we gave Eric walden after the Niners game. We then found out the play against the read option is to have the outside linebacker crash down on the HB while another player (Burnett most often in the Niners game, likely Hyde in this one looking at the alignment) filling the outside lane vs. the QB. It's a DB fail, not a LB fail.
You make a good point, Herschel, but one problem I have with your argument (possibly) is how likely is it the DB fails on 4 consecutive plays?
At the point they showed replays, Lynch was commenting how Tannehill was "keying" on Matthews. I think they showed the 2 previous plays plus the current one on replay. Then they ran another read-option play immediately following.
I suppose it's possible the DB can fail on consecutive plays, but wouldn't that be another indictment of Capers' scheme? Or does it come back to the player/coaching argument?
How many times did the DB fail vs. San Fran? Yeah, he would key off of Matthews, which is part of the reason he crashes. Then there's no "choice", plausible fake or option, the QB keeps and the fill guy (and everyone else) knows it's coming to him as well as getting a hit on the QB.
The guy is obviously hurt. Some say he's off the juice (HGH). I'd wait till next year before I'd go there.
He has a groin injury and neither he nor the team want to call attention to it
So long as he is out there, teams have to give him attention
He can't change direction right now, that makes it very difficult to play the read- option
Makes sense.
He has a groin injury and neither he nor the team want to call attention to it
So long as he is out there, teams have to give him attention
He can't change direction right now, that makes it very difficult to play the read- option
Since the Pack may see quite a bit of it this week, someone either Claymaker or a body to be named later better step up and play it right.
Enough with the excuses. This is football and everyone has a nagging injury from time to time. It seems like there is always a convenient excuse thrown out for why Clay is not playing up to his potential (double teams, no dominant player opposite him, injuries, where is is playing, etc.). Why? Maybe because we like to believe that Clay will single handedly win the game for the Pack? Maybe because we haven't had someone like him for a long time and we need that bright spot to look up to? Maybe we have blinded ourselves by idolism? Who knows, who cares. The fact is that Clay has not been playing like the second highest paid player on the Packers for quite a while.
Unfortunately, it seems like Clay is always nursing some injury (for the past few years). Hamstring, thumb, groin....whatever. Even when healthy, he hasn't been the dominant threat. At $66 mil, you need to be the player to change how the opposing offense runs or just plain 'ol torment the hell out of them. He is accountable like all other players, regardless of injuries/double teams/schemes. If he needs to sit because of injury, then sit him and let him get healthy. If he can't stay healthy and continue to be a beast, a pay cut may be in his future. I love watching Clay when he is operating at his best, but it has been a LONNNGG time since I have seen a consistent batch of those games.
The read option is designed to make Clay wrong no matter what he does
If he crashes down, the QB runs outside; if he maintains the edge, they hand it off up the middle. We saw both on Sunday. Clay's job is often just to force the decision
The way to stop the Read option is the "other guy" who makes the play once Clay forces them to choose. In the past this was the responsibility of either the ILB ( Jones/Hawk) scraping across or a DB coming down.
It takes everybody on the same page to shut this stuff down and what some DCs decided was to have their "Clay" just hit the QB really hard no matter what in order to get OC's to stop calling those plays. Just keep in mind that while it doesn't look pretty, in many cases Clay is doing exactly what he is supposed to do and his teammates are the ones who are supposed to make the play.
Back in High School there was a team in our conference that ran the triple option. Our coach said there were 3 things that we had to do on every play: Hit the full back, hit the quarterback, and hit the half back. Clay needs to trust his internal defense and POUND the quarterback on every play. That'll do two things: Stop the QB keeper and force the other team to get their back up QB warming up.
Maybe one.
If the QB is carrying out the fake, are you saying he can't be hit? It'll take one hit and he'll hand it off the rest of the game. If they're going to leave Clay unblocked and just read what he does, then he HAS to hit the QB.
I was implying there would be plays where Clay gets to the QB after the QB releases the ball or hands it off. Those are the plays where hitting the QB would result in a penalty, and you said you wanted Clay to POUND the QB on every play.quote:If the QB is carrying out the fake, are you saying he can't be hit?
You get my jist Fedya. Clay needs to forget about the RB and hit the QB whenever he can. The Packers continue to get killed on the stretch option because our outside LBers crash down on the RB and don't hold their containment. Clay and company need to punish the QB. As long as it's a legal hit I can't see how it can be a penalty if the QB carries out the fake. What's he supposed to do, ask him if he still has the ball? Did you watch Tannyhill's eyes on the read option? He's just watching Clay to see if he's going to crash down, and then he decides what he's going to do. Clay is unblocked. Crush his ass, that'll make his mind up for him.
So the outside linebacker is supposed to keep containment when it's not his assignment to keep containment? If the fill guy fails it's not the OLB's fault, it's the fill guy's.
If the QB is carrying out the fake, are you saying he can't be hit? It'll take one hit and he'll hand it off the rest of the game. If they're going to leave Clay unblocked and just read what he does, then he HAS to hit the QB.
Probably would get flagged, at least half the time. The officials are told to be, and have become, overprotective of the QB, even on that sort of a play. Trusting these officials is hard to do. Yeah, it ought not be that way on that play, but..........
Discussions about hitting the QB on the read-option for some reason always reminds me of a Clint movie (Unforgiven ,maybe), He shoots an unarmed man and when this is mentioned to him, Clint says he should have armed himself then. Or something like that.
Tackling a defenseless player, they should have defended themselves then.
This can be debated for hours... but one thing won't change.
We need more production from Clay Matthews.
Packers fan is looking at Clay the way Bears fan looked at Peppers. Through a salary lens.
He has a groin injury and neither he nor the team want to call attention to it
So long as he is out there, teams have to give him attention
A defensive decoy is nothing more than 1 less guy to make the play. This is a bad plan. Would rather see more of Elliott and Neal until he is healthy.
Yeah but he's a good dancer if and when he does make a play.
Packers fan is looking at Clay the way Bears fan looked at Peppers. Through a salary lens.
Not me, but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend all is well either. We have played 6 games this year. Clay has 14 tackles and 1 sack. He laid a goose egg on the stat sheet against Miami and looked foolish on several plays. (Stats are for losers)
If #52 had "Hawk" on the back everybody would be going off... but because it's the golden boy it's all good?
We need more production out of Clay Matthews. It's that simple.
It is perfectly legal to hit/tackle a QB running the read option whether he has the football or not. Pound him. Just don't drive him into the ground,
So the outside linebacker is supposed to keep containment when it's not his assignment to keep containment? If the fill guy fails it's not the OLB's fault, it's the fill guy's.
Who is the fill guy in this photo? The single high safety not in the screen? Brad Jones who is about to get picked off by a guard? Tramon Williams should abandon his duties in coverage at the outset of the fake (Recall Shields doing that earlier this year?)
Clay's job is to contain.
Pay close attention to Jones and Burnett here. Chasing shadows. Clay should have held that edge better.
There was a lot of this same discussion after the first playoff embarrassment vs Kaepernick. The last word on defending the RO always seemed to be hitting the QB on every play they ran it, whether he handed off or not. I think we did that vs. SF last year in WK1 and stopped the RO pretty well. They even held SF running O to under a buck. Then they threw to Boldin all day instead and beat us with a last minute FG.
Where did all this experience stopping the RO go?
I don't think they all forgot it over the span of year. I think MIA had some success because GB simply wasn't prepared for it. Was it a completely unscouted look from them? Time to dust it off for CAR.
Can't tell until he thwarts Cam.
Packers just need to get back to playing disciplined football to have success defending the RO. Clay's blowing contain on Tannehill's long run speaks for itself.
So the outside linebacker is supposed to keep containment when it's not his assignment to keep containment? If the fill guy fails it's not the OLB's fault, it's the fill guy's.
Who is the fill guy in this photo? The single high safety not in the screen? Brad Jones who is about to get picked off by a guard? Tramon Williams should abandon his duties in coverage at the outset of the fake (Recall Shields doing that earlier this year?)
Clay's job is to contain.
Probably Hyde, who will bump the receiver then release to the zone if he reads run, or/and Jones scraping wide. Matthews forces the decision, not keep contain. the dbs also fill on a run play. Peppers is in back-side contain while Hawk flows to the ball, Jones also.
This is also leaves Hyde to try and break up the wr screen and jones picks up the inside releasing receiver on interior pass attempts to the sticks.
If Hyde comes crashing down he leaves a WR all by himself. We saw this happen against the Jets when Shields came up to defend the read option and his man was wide open down the sideline.
Jones played it poorly, he was essentially a statue on the play just waiting for a guard to come get him 5 yards down field. Clay played it even worse, IMO.
No, he really doesn't.
Out of the trips formation, at least one of the receivers will release inside on a pass play, towards Jones and underneath the safety. the DB defends the flat against bubble screen or a back coming out after disrupting a route, or may also blitz or drop to a bit deeper zone if everyone clears, or fill vs. an option run. Jones and Hawk have the inside zones in pass coverage or flow to the ball if it's a running play.
Jones is shading outside also to pick up an inside-releasing receiver coming accross his zone and would help fill.
Notice the R-outside receiver and left flanker both turned in, faking(?) the bubble screen, trying to freeze the closest defenders from Filling down.
Matthews' job is to make sure it's not an option at all and force the QB to keep it so every defender knows who will have the ball. He's also in position to defend against a center screen.
From this shot it appears Hyde goes outside, Dix is "up" and Tramon was the "fill". Matthews forced the play, Hawk bit on the fake but is in position if the back had gotten the ball, Jones should be flowing outside, most likely, Tramon should be filling and Dix on outside contain, if everyone is where they're supposed to be but not executing. 
Oh for **** sake this has to end. We're looking at still photo's now and mapping out who is headed where?!?!?!? It's Ryan ****ing Tannehill. No one in that D alignment had outside contain on this play because Ryan ****ing Tannehill isn't a read option QB. It was a "let's pull a rabbit out of a hat" one time call that worked out. It does happen every so often.
The play ended up working as well as it did because Brad Jones was chasing shadow puppets and Morgan Burnett gave zero credence to the thought that Ryan ****ing Tannehill might actually tuck that ****er away and scamper out on his own.
disagree. I think DB and Hersh have valid points and I want to see this play out
