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If someone else posted this, let me know and I'll nix.

From JSO:

quote:

What is the 'pistol' formation

To understand the lessons the Ravens learned, you have to first understand the "pistol" formation and the read-option scheme.

The "pistol" is a variation of the shotgun formation where the quarterback stands 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage instead of 5 or 6 and usually has a running back and a tight end to either side of him. The read-option part comes after the snap when the quarterback decides based on the way the defense plays whether to give the ball to his running back or fake it to him and either run or drop back to pass.

It's a fairly simple concept, one that college teams have used for decades, and the main reason it hadn't been used in the NFL is the reluctance of coaches to expose their quarterbacks to the hits normally reserved for running backs. Only the recent influx of well-built, elusive and strong-armed quarterbacks like Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Robert Griffin III and Russell Wilson has made it possible to explore option possibilities.

What many people don't understand is that the primary objective in the scheme is not to have the quarterback carry the ball, but to open up lanes between the tackles for talented running backs like the 49ers' Frank Gore to exploit. Only the extreme talents of guys like Kaepernick and Griffin have made the quarterback run such a dangerous threat.

"Colin is one of the rarest athletes I have been around and I have been around a lot of them," 49ers offensive coordinator Greg Roman said of the 6-foot-4½, 230-pound Kaepernick. "A guy that can throw it with such accuracy, run and have the mind he has - it is a dangerous weapon."

Against the Packers, Kaepernick accounted for 444 total yards, but even more incredible was the number of big plays he made to get to that number. He had runs of 56, 20, 19 and 18 yards and pass completions of 45, 44, 20, 18 and 17.

Defending read-option plays

The 49ers had two weeks to prepare for the Packers and heading into the playoffs they had limited their use of "pistol" and read-option plays in hopes of springing it on an unsuspecting opponent. To defend the read-option, you have to know your assignment, be disciplined enough not to be drawn away from it and athletic enough to make the play when it does come your way.

And you really need to practice against it.

"A common mistake is guys doing their own thing," Ravens defensive coordinator Dean Pees said. "It may be an outside guy and they're running the option and he's running up the field because he thinks it's pass rush A lot of things like that. There have been some teams that have done very, very well against it and they've been very disciplined on it.

"The Miami Dolphins played the heck out of San Francisco and one play had a breakdown and Kaepernick went for 40 on them. That's all it takes."

According to Pees, Packers defensive coordinator Dom Capers adjusted well to the scheme once it was clear the 49ers were going to run it, but too many things broke down either because of missed assignments or inferior athletic ability.

Two cases in point: Capers blitzed Kaepernick from the slot and had him dead to rights, but cornerback Casey Hayward couldn't get Kaepernick down; Capers "spied" Kaepernick on one play and with linebacker Erik Walden there to sweep him up as he scrambled up the middle, the 49ers quarterback juked him badly and ran up the middle for a first down.

"First of all, you have to have a spy that can run with him," Pees said of using that option. "You can say Dom made a good call. It was a good call. They collapsed the pocket but the spy couldn't catch him. He started to go one way, the linebacker goes that way and he takes off the other way and the linebacker is 2 yards behind him. Done. Over with."

First and foremost, the Ravens have to address the read-option.

Packers linebackers Clay Matthews and Walden, in particular, were too aggressive and instead of making sure that Kaepernick had handed the ball off went after Gore on the dive play. That can work, but the inside linebacker to that side has to "scrape" or flow outside, so that there's a defender to keep Kaepernick from running around the corner.

Atlanta held its defensive ends in place and told them to take away Kaepernick's run option. As a result, he carried the ball only twice, 14 times fewer than against the Packers. But Atlanta could not stop Gore (21 carries, 90 yards, two touchdowns) from running up the middle because the 49ers didn't have to devote blockers to the ends and could use them to double-team the defensive linemen.

It also slowed down the pass rush so that Kaepernick could stand in the pocket after a fake handoff and wait for his receivers to run deep. Despite a slow start he completed 16 of 21 passes for 233 yards and a touchdown.

"I think the most common mistake is probably when they'll put the defensive end usually on the quarterback and when he comes up field full speed it creates a big lane for the dive play, for Gore to come through," Ravens linebacker Paul Kruger said. "You can't create a lot of space on the dive because if they gash you on that a couple times then everybody gets sucked in and the quarterback has a chance to get out."


Ravens learned from Packer Mistakes

Now Im not holding Capers harmless. Im sure in a re-do, he'd do some things differently. But the more I read pieces like this, the more I see Capers knew what was needed. He just didn't have the right guys OR they plain and simple didn't make the play and there wasn't enough time to practice against it.
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quote:
Originally posted by packerboi:
If someone else posted this, let me know and I'll nix.

From JSO:

[QUOTE]
Packers linebackers Clay Matthews and Walden, in particular, were too aggressive and instead of making sure that Kaepernick had handed the ball off went after Gore on the dive play. That can work, but the inside linebacker to that side has to "scrape" or flow outside, so that there's a defender to keep Kaepernick from running around the corner.


Which they did try to scrape but the outside defender didn't do his job on those plays far too often be it Burnett getting caught too far inside, Hayward not making the tackle, etc. Trying to play it straight up Walden washed out of the play, etc. and the line, especially Raji, ahd a really poor game.
quote:
"If you watch the film, you can tell that a lot of people who played against the read-option just played as individuals."
They didn't figure out how to come together as a defense until the locker room clean out when they ducked the media. Surprised a guy like Pickett went along with that crap.
I'd Give Dom about 10% of the blame.

Dom simply didn't have the weapons/players needed to execute the defense properly.

Seriously...6th round pick Walden & 7th round pick Brad Jones? Not to mention a very pedestrian AJ Hawk. Vs. 4 1st round OL, 1st round TE, 1st round WR's, high 2nd round QB.

I think you get my point. Dom tried to adjust but didn't have the horses to execute the plan. Or the players were free lancing too much. Which would explain why they ducked the media.
quote:
Originally posted by FLPACKER:
....having Walden "spy" Kaepernick is on Dom....any Packer fan could tell you that there is no way that Walden could tackle the QB in the open field.


What a load of crap. Who are you going to commit to spy him then? Your top pass rusher and run defender Matthews? I'm sure the 49ers would have loved not having to worry about him. Your amazing ILBs? Your Safetys that are defending against the deep passes? The guys who are keeping Crabtree, Moss, and Ginn from ripping off a 60 yard TD. One of your CBs who give up 50 lbs to Kaepernicks, have struggled with tackling anyway, and are trying to prevent big pass plays? Walden is the logical choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
Dom tried to adjust but didn't have the horses to execute the plan. Or the players were free lancing too much. Which would explain why they ducked the media.


Or both.
A spy isn't designed to tackle the QB in the open field necessarily. A spy is designed to be in the QB's line of vision and make running lanes look less open. Forcing the QB to hand off the ball or stay in the pocket.
I put a fair amount of blame on Capers because having the OLBs crash in on the dive just took them out of the play IMO. They never really were the ones who stopped the dive runs. And when they commit to the inside so fast it opens up the outside that much more. Giving more room for the QB to juke or outrun the scrape man.

As the article says "That can work, but the inside linebacker to that side has to "scrape" or flow outside, so that there's a defender to keep Kaepernick from running around the corner."

I disagree that Capers had a good design if it counted on Hawk or Jones to handle the QB in space after the OLB came down inside making a huge running lane outside for Kaepernick.
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I put a fair amount of blame on Capers because having the OLBs crash in on the dive just took them out of the play IMO.


You're assuming that this was the design of the play and not the previously mentioned freelancing. I think it was freelancing on the OLBs part, but that's just speculation.

As far as the ILBs go, at some point you can't cover up all the deficiencies. You have to count on some players, however unreliable they may be, to do some things because there are no other options. To me, if they had stopped Kaep from running, he would have passed like crazy. It's less likely they will rip off huge gains in the run game which is why I think they chose to lock down the passing game and contain Kaep/Gore. Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong choice.
If the OLBs were freelancing and not following the play design then that is a coaching problem because they did it over and over again with disastrous results.

IMO the OLBs gave up the outside way too many times without being corrected to blame it all on freelancing.

I am simply not going to believe that those players blatantly disregarded their responsibilities and gave up HUGE plays that many times without Kevin Green or MM blowing a freaking gasket and benching them.


Why not have the OLBs go right at the QB (as the Ravens did) forcing him to hand off the ball and count on your inside run defense to stop Gore?


You don't have to count on unreliable ILBs to tackle the QB if you design your defense so the OLBs attack him instead of the dive man who they'll rarely get a hand on.
I'd be more inclined to absolve Capers if this January meltdown was a one time thing. The fact that it's happened three times in the past four postseasons makes it hard to do that.
quote:
Originally posted by heyward:
I'd be more inclined to absolve Capers if this January meltdown was a one time thing. The fact that it's happened three times in the past four postseasons makes it hard to do that.


Great point.
quote:
Originally posted by Grave Digger:
quote:
Originally posted by FLPACKER:
....having Walden "spy" Kaepernick is on Dom....any Packer fan could tell you that there is no way that Walden could tackle the QB in the open field.


What a load of crap. Who are you going to commit to spy him then? Your top pass rusher and run defender Matthews? I'm sure the 49ers would have loved not having to worry about him. Your amazing ILBs? Your Safetys that are defending against the deep passes? The guys who are keeping Crabtree, Moss, and Ginn from ripping off a 60 yard TD. One of your CBs who give up 50 lbs to Kaepernicks, have struggled with tackling anyway, and are trying to prevent big pass plays? Walden is the logical choice.


...McMillan seems like a logical choice. He likes to tackle & is only giving up 35 pounds. You really think having Walden play three yards off the line of scrimmage in the middle of the field, did any good at all? Playing basically an undersized DE in that position, who is not adept at playing in space does not appear to be sound use of personel IMHO, but of course I defer to your superior football knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Why not have the OLBs go right at the QB (as the Ravens did) forcing him to hand off the ball and count on your inside run defense to stop Gore?


Because the "inside run defense" was getting rag-dolled by the San Fran O-line, which was an issue in the scrape or the straight up plays. The main problem with the scrape plays though was the contain guy not only getting blown up, but getting caught inside rather than at least keeping the play from getting wide and letting the crashing OLBs have a play on Kaepernick. Burnett was especially bad on a few big Kaepernick runs not being able to keep outide position.
Last edited by H5
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
If the OLBs were freelancing and not following the play design then that is a coaching problem because they did it over and over again with disastrous results.

IMO the OLBs gave up the outside way too many times without being corrected to blame it all on freelancing.

I am simply not going to believe that those players blatantly disregarded their responsibilities and gave up HUGE plays that many times without Kevin Green or MM blowing a freaking gasket and benching them.


Why not have the OLBs go right at the QB (as the Ravens did) forcing him to hand off the ball and count on your inside run defense to stop Gore?


You don't have to count on unreliable ILBs to tackle the QB if you design your defense so the OLBs attack him instead of the dive man who they'll rarely get a hand on.


This.

And if you could not do this, then Hawk has to go. period, end of sentence.

In the future, Defending the Spread, pistol, etc is going to require 2 good inside LB's. Hawk ain't it. The end is near for him and if isn't and you keep Capers ther will be more days like the SF game and h?ll even the last season game vs. Queens. Queens never ran no damn spread ...

JMO
Two ways to be successful going forward. Plan A would be to go heavy on D for another year or two until they have top talent. Plan B would be to draft
O-linemen and control the clock for longer periods and add a couple D players in free agency. Anybody see TT doing that?
I agree with the title of the thread.

In retrospect the loss to the Vikings in the Metrodome is what set this up. If that doesn't happen, the Bears go to San Francisco the first week of the playoffs and get blindsided by the Pistol formation. We then have a week to prepare for it.

If you read Peter King's article after the Super Bowl, the Ravens decided in the goal line stand that they were not going to let the 49ers run it to win so they zero blitzed and filled every gap. With some prep time, I'm guessing that's what Capers might have done as an overall scheme to combat the pistol. Then the game would have come down to how well or LBs and secondary matched up against the TEs and WRs in single coverage. Davis had a huge game in the Super Bowl and how well Woodson would have matched up against him might have been the deciding factor. I think Shields could have handled Moss, but Tramon would have still been torched by Crabtree.
quote:
Originally posted by Grave Digger:
quote:
Originally posted by FLPACKER:
but of course I defer to your superior football knowledge.


Probably a wise move.


I agree

I also think controlling the clock better on offense will help aid the defense by keeping them off the field & fresh. It is a team game last I checked but the defense needs to improve & I expect it will in 2013
Last edited by Boris
quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
I also think controlling the clock better on offense will help aid the defense by keeping them off the field & fresh.


This.

Way too many back to back 3 and outs by the Packer offense this season. In several games. Including 6 times in 7 possessions against the Vikings.
Good points on Rodgers and the offense. They did the defense no favors. Even if Rodgers doesn't score, if he can at least make a decent drive last then the defense can catch their breath. Way too many 3 and outs and of course MM wouldnt commit to the run.
If you look at the teams, there really is a talent gap that falls a lot on TT also.

QB: Packers. Yeah, Kaepernick is intriguing and talented, but then there's Aaron Rodgers. Not much of a contest.

RB: San Fran. Tailback, fullback, h-back, whatever-back San Fran with Gore, James, Walker, etc. are a far superior group.

WR/TE: Packers. Crabtree is developing in to what he was supposed to be, Vernon Davis is a stud but even if Jennings leaves Nelson, Cobb and Jones are a good group and Finley is almost as talented as Davis, just even less consistent. Still, this and QB are where Green Bay really holds an edge.

OT: San Fran. Bulaga's been a pretty good RT but Newhouse lacks true LT feet and RT strength. He's a great backup but marginal starter. Sherrod's a huge question mark. San Fran's tackles are thumpers and Staley's just very good all-around.

OG/C: San Fran. Green Bay has Sitton who can be compared favorably but the other two spots, not so much.

DT/DE: San Fran. Pickett's getting older and Raji's not as consistent. San Fran's group is/was simply better up front.

OLB: San Fran. Matthews is probably a bit better than Aldon Smith but the spot across from them tilts it to San Fran. Hopefully Nick Perry can turn that to a wash.

ILB: San Fran. Bowman and Willis, 'nuf said.

CB: Green Bay. The starters are a wash but Green Bay has better depth I think.

S: San Fran. Another not very close comparison.
On the roster. Interesting the way one move could have had a profound difference on the o line...

quote:
Baltimore's Matt Birk, one of the veteran centers available last spring, definitely would have considered the Green Bay Packers if they had called.

"Yeah, I would have," Birk said Wednesday at the Super Bowl. "Look at the Packers organization and the team they have."

About three weeks after the start of unrestricted free agency, Birk re-signed with the Ravens for $8.525 million over three years. One of the reasons he went back to Baltimore was not having other options.

Meanwhile, the Packers signed free agent Jeff Saturday as their center on March 13, six days before Birk re-signed. His two-year deal was worth $7.75 million.

Birk, at 36 a year younger than Saturday, started all 19 games for the Ravens and was ranked as the team's third-best offensive lineman by one opposing personnel man. He hasn't missed a game since 2005. jsonline.com


hindsight and all that but that was a bad evaluation of what Saturday had left to give.
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I put a fair amount of blame on Capers because having the OLBs crash in on the dive just took them out of the play IMO. They never really were the ones who stopped the dive runs. And when they commit to the inside so fast it opens up the outside that much more. Giving more room for the QB to juke or outrun the scrape man.

As the article says "That can work, but the inside linebacker to that side has to "scrape" or flow outside, so that there's a defender to keep Kaepernick from running around the corner."

I disagree that Capers had a good design if it counted on Hawk or Jones to handle the QB in space after the OLB came down inside making a huge running lane outside for Kaepernick.


I agree with this post. Capers had a poor plan and made no effective adjustments during the game. Sure, plenty of blame goes on the linebackers and the person who chose them for the team, but the game plan sucked.
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
I also think controlling the clock better on offense will help aid the defense by keeping them off the field & fresh.


This.

Way too many back to back 3 and outs by the Packer offense this season. In several games. Including 6 times in 7 possessions against the Vikings.


This is true. How about a new OC?
quote:
Originally posted by Boston Jim:
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I put a fair amount of blame on Capers because having the OLBs crash in on the dive just took them out of the play IMO. They never really were the ones who stopped the dive runs. And when they commit to the inside so fast it opens up the outside that much more. Giving more room for the QB to juke or outrun the scrape man.

As the article says "That can work, but the inside linebacker to that side has to "scrape" or flow outside, so that there's a defender to keep Kaepernick from running around the corner."

I disagree that Capers had a good design if it counted on Hawk or Jones to handle the QB in space after the OLB came down inside making a huge running lane outside for Kaepernick.


I agree with this post. Capers had a poor plan and made no effective adjustments during the game. Sure, plenty of blame goes on the linebackers and the person who chose them for the team, but the game plan sucked.


..agree, Capers has built a reputation for innovative schemes such as "Big Oakie", but was really taken to the woodshed by the SF staff.
I just don't get what Capers should have done differently. Spy with McMillian/Woodson? Well now you're running with 1 safety, thus expecting one of our LBers to run with Vernon Davis. Davis would have gone for 200 in man to man against Hawk. Put Hayward on him? Now you've taken a big guy out against that huge o-line of SF's and they'll pound it for 5-6 ypc, as you're playing nickel when they have 2 WR's on the field.

Walden, Hawk and Jones have to be one of the worst trios of LB's you'll see in the NFL. Sorry, but when you're facing Kaepernick and Gore and one of the best o-lines in the NFL, there isn't a whole lot of scheming you can do to hide those three guys. Every player has to do their job and it's clear that some players on this defense were not up to the task, those three specifically.
quote:
Originally posted by Hungry5:
Didn't Walden get pulled in the 3rd qtr for Moses?


Yes. After the tying FG and subsequent TD run. Even though he insisted that he carried out his assignment and he was backed up by coaches afterward. Curious time to bench a player who carried out his assignment in a defense that its claimed did not play assignment football.

Sounds like a combination of spin and fact. And lousy defense.
quote:
Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I disagree that Capers had a good design if it counted on Hawk or Jones to handle the QB in space after the OLB came down inside making a huge running lane outside for Kaepernick.


So it's a poor design if you expect your linebackers to tackle the QB? Sorry, I'm not buying it. There isn't a scheme in football that takes into account your linebackers inability to tackle a quarterback.

If Hawk, Jones and Walden can't tackle Kaepernick in the open field, they should not be back with the team. But again, that's a player issue and not a coach issue.
quote:
Originally posted by CUPackFan:
I just don't get what Capers should have done differently. Spy with McMillian/Woodson? Well now you're running with 1 safety, thus expecting one of our LBers to run with Vernon Davis. Davis would have gone for 200 in man to man against Hawk. Put Hayward on him? Now you've taken a big guy out against that huge o-line of SF's and they'll pound it for 5-6 ypc, as you're playing nickel when they have 2 WR's on the field.

.


..you only use a "spy" on passing downs & you don't keep Hawk on the field. You commit 5 to the QB and play 6 in coverage. You play McMillan instead of Walden in that situation, if all you are having Walden do is stay 3 yards past the middle of the field & keep Kaepernick in the pocket...he does not have the ability to play at that part of the field with any success.
quote:
Originally posted by FLPACKER:


..you only use a "spy" on passing downs & you don't keep Hawk on the field. You commit 5 to the QB and play 6 in coverage. You play McMillan instead of Walden in that situation, if all you are having Walden do is stay 3 yards past the middle of the field & keep Kaepernick in the pocket...he does not have the ability to play at that part of the field with any success.


So you play McMillan as a LB on passing downs and still have 6 in coverage? I just want to be clear.

So who are the other 4 you commit to the QB and what if Kaepernick options to Gore with McMillan playing LB? McMillan, a safety.
The way to play KaperQB is to concede a TD on the first drive. Start at the 20. 15 yd penalty for roughing the QB. Next play at the 35, another 15 yd penalty for roughing the QB. Ball at the 50. Again a 15 yd penalty for roughing the QB. And again and again. Every time he runs, spear him and then hit him again. He won't be a threat for long.
quote:

Originally posted by FLPACKER:
..you only use a "spy" on passing downs & you don't keep Hawk on the field. You commit 5 to the QB and play 6 in coverage. You play McMillan instead of Walden in that situation, if all you are having Walden do is stay 3 yards past the middle of the field & keep Kaepernick in the pocket...he does not have the ability to play at that part of the field with any success.


Same article:

quote:


The Ravens have a couple of things going for them that the Packers didn't when they faced the 49ers.

One of them is an all-pro defensive tackle in 6-4, 340-pound Haloti Ngata, who you can double-team all day and still probably not wear out, even when it's San Francisco's massive offensive line doing the pushing. Unlike B.J. Raji, who relies more on quickness and put the Packers defense in bad spots when he tried to shoot gaps, Ngata will eat up blockers and make it easier for the inside linebackers to flow to the ball.

He is joined by 6-5, 345-pound Ma'ake Kemoeatu and 6-3, 315-pound Arthur Jones, who are taller, longer-armed linemen than the Packers' C.J. Wilson, Mike Neal and Mike Daniels. They will be harder to engulf and will shed blocks more quickly, thus giving them a better shot to contain Gore.

"Our guys do very well with double-teams," Ngata said. "Once we get to the running back, we have to bring him down."

Big and hard-hitting safeties

The other advantage the Ravens have are two big, hard-hitting safeties. They may have no option but to bring 6-1, 225-pound Bernard Pollard down in the box as an extra run defender. He's far more powerful than the Packers' Charles Woodson and Morgan Burnett, neither of whom weighs 210 pounds and can blow up runners like Pollard can.

It would be a detriment to the Ravens defense to constantly devote a safety in the box because of the terrific array of receivers the 49ers have and Kaepernick's ability to pull the ball from Gore's gut at the last second and drop back and pass. But their advantage is having Ed Reed, one of the best safeties in NFL history, who at 34 isn't the same guy he once was but still had four interceptions and 15 pass breakups during the regular season.


If you think the Packers safeties are equal to what the Ravens had your way way off. They are bigger, stronger options then what we have now. All the young ones (Burnett, Jennings, McMill) are still ascending IMO but I don't know if they will ever be as physical as what the Ravens have...and that includes a 34 year old Ed Reed.

And I also don't know who your replacing AJ Hawk with. Some are thinking there are better options just waiting on the sidelines. They're not there.
For all the arguments about scheme, personnell, and game planning, football still comes down to the basics.
DE and OLB have to keep contain on the edges. That's their job, period.
All of the above may come into play eventually, and the players that execute the best will win their battles. But, to hell with all this 'scraping' and 'crashing'; penetrate, attack, and hold the edges.

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