Dr., I think you hit the nail on the head with your "sense of duty." There is no owner; there are thousands and thousands of people with a vested interest in how well the team does. Management answers to many, not one or two. Without Murphy and the other guys at the top to keep that in mind, and to find a GM and coaches who believe in it, and then instill it into the minds of the players, the GBP are not the team they are today.
Satori, just a big thumbs up. The Packers do do it better! 
( A )
Rodgers isn't even a Packer if they don't have the incredibly thorough process in place to scout everybody, not just the likely guys at pick 25. The Packers weren't even looking for a QB in 2005, but their organizational excellence allowed them the chance to answer when opportunity knocked
( B )
The Packers are able to plug in the next man up because they have a philosophy, stick to it and that philosophy permeates the entire org. They also stick with the same GM/HC for a long time ( through thick and thin) and that stability means the front office always knows what types of players will succeed on offense and defense. The marriage between TT and MM is one of the best in the NFL and the results have been noted around the league
( C )
I could go on and on about how the Packers have succeeded where others have failed. Look no further than the 4th round pick starting at LT and kicking ass. An entire offensive line filled with 4th rounders and undrafteds kicking ass in pass pro and running game ? Doing better than the vaunted SF OL filled with 1st rounders ?
Go Packers
Great post. A few comments...
( A ) - IIRC Thompson had to "scramble" to get someone to pull up the evaluation/film on AR when they noticed him dropping because they had not scouted him much?
( B ) - Not a lot of thin to consider, right? Even the owner/GM heavy teams like WAS and DAL have allowed the occasional 1 year road bump like a 6-10 record.
( C ) - You're going to get letters about the kicking ass in pass pro comment. 
The successful corporate Packers is a relatively recent phenomenon. Despite the dilute ownership, up until the early 80's it was autocratically run. There was some success with early Lambeau and Lombardi and dismal failures in the 50s and 70s. The 80's were a transition period (How many 8-8 teams were there?)
The philosophy of brutal self criticism is what now sustains the franchise. McCarthy has mentioned the self analysis that goes on constantly. Not just on field personnel and tactics but corporate strategy, coaches and their teaching methods, marketing, etc. Everything is under a microscope.
Wilde has done a rather lengthy series on the next man up philosophy, posted today. Separate stories from the perspective of the GM, coaches, and players, with interviews featuring TT, Ron Wolf (!), MM and Rodgers. Very well done and recommended. (Look at the site menu on the upper right for the three-piece series).
This. I was going to put these 3 excellent pieces into this thread, but cuqui beat me to it. Highly recommended.
I took down my post because I thought it was to academic, maybe I was wrong.
It looks like you guys are playing around with Strategic Management concepts and why so few organization are able to follow through with a plan. You guys are also mentioning management techniques that the packers are using. Again the question is not why they are working for the Packers but why other teams are not as successful using or are not using the techniques at all.
According to Prof Bryce the key in getting an organization to follow through on a plan is the concept of shared mental vision. That is the people in the organization buy into an support the organizations plan. It is very difficult to get people to buy into a plan. The biggest difficulty in implementing the plan always comes from the top. Top management generally wants to horde power and suppress thoughts below them. A great organization empowers their employees and embraces leadership no matter were it arises in an organization. I think the current Packers organization does a great job empowering their staff, that is why the Packers scouts and coaches do such a great job for the team.
Now it does not mean the team will win the Super bowl every year but it will mean they will out perform most other teams. And it also means they will grab a good share of the opportunities that come their way, example drafting Rodgers.
quote:( B ) - Not a lot of thin to consider, right?
And yes, he should have been canned.(A) Hungry5, I'll have to dig into the way-back machine on the scouting of Rodgers.
I do remember an article where TT was calling around to other GMs to ask
" What am I missing ? "Why is this guy dropping ? "
TT also commented a few years back that the reason they scout everybody is because they never know what might happen on draft day and because most of those players do become available at some point in their careers.
B - There have been exciting moments when Packer Nation wanted : Ted fired, Bates hired, Capers fired, Cower hired etc. and there are some epic threads in the archive detailing those events. Look at how many coaches/coordinators Dallas/Wash have gone through and its rather illuminating. Packers aren't perfect, but they do stay the course more often than not
C- Indeed, they did not kick ass in years' past. But they've been doing a helluva job this season against a murderers row of pass rushers. Big improvement
Its just one man's opinion, but I think I can sum it up this way
Turn the table around and ask yourself this:
Which single NFL franchise is doing it better than the Green Bay Packers ?
And while I'm certainly guilty of wearing green & gold goggles....I'd still be interested to hear if anybody comes up with another team that's doing it better across the board - including the self- scouting as noted by grignon
There is a team in New England that took Tom Brady in the 6th round when they didn't need a QB and have been to multiple SBs in the past decade with a cast of nobodies, including being forced to have a WR play DB at times.
I have no doubt the system works and the system itself is very important, but I question if it works as well without a superstar QB. If AR was lost would the system compensate? Would all our WRs look as good with a Blain Gabbert throwing to them? Would some of the defensive players seem as good if the team went 6-10 or 8-8 for a few years because the offense couldn't just outscore teams? Would TT and MM be allowed to stick around long enough to find another Aaron Rodgers?
So in other words:
They believe in a philosophy and stick to it.
They play the best players regardless of draft or contract status.
They know how to put the players they have in a position to succeed.
They're not afraid to put 'nobodies' out on the field, even on the other side of the ball.
Basically, next man up.
Next man up, around a HOF QB = success.
Satori asked what team is doing it better? NE might be. I don't think it is a coincidence that they also have a QB who can make the rest of the team look better, including bailing out the defense by scoring more points than the other team can. Although they may be on the decline as Brady ages. I'd assume they'll keep the same system in place. It will be interesting to see how it fares after Brady is done.
IMO JMO
There is a team in New England that took Tom Brady in the 6th round when they didn't need a QB and have been to multiple SBs in the past decade with a cast of nobodies, including being forced to have a WR play DB at times.
I have no doubt the system works and the system itself is very important, but I question if it works as well without a superstar QB. If AR was lost would the system compensate? Would all our WRs look as good with a Blain Gabbert throwing to them? Would some of the defensive players seem as good if the team went 6-10 or 8-8 for a few years because the offense couldn't just outscore teams? Would TT and MM be allowed to stick around long enough to find another Aaron Rodgers?
NE does many of the things the Packers do well. The interesting thing will be what happens in NE when Brady retires. Seattle maybe a team that is developing a Packer like system.
I thing SF is good because they had a good team with bad coaches, they stock piling players under their bad coaches, once they got a good coach they had a monster team. What happens in the next few years with SF will be interesting, they will not be able to keep the players they have and will have to play the Packers next guy up game.
Great post. A few comments...
( A ) - IIRC Thompson had to "scramble" to get someone to pull up the evaluation/film on AR when they noticed him dropping because they had not scouted him much?
I think it is all in the definition of scramble as TT describes with Vandermause in 2011:
Its Aaron Rodgers.
If you swap Ponder or some of the other crappy QBs we see for AR the Packers are 8-8 the past few years and missing the playoffs more often than not. And we are all screaming for Bill Cowher to save our team.
Yep. Having a great QB makes everything work better and gives you more leeway.
Yet I still can't get out of my head how well Matt Flynn performed within the Packers system. AR is a big key, but not the entire story.
Yet I still can't get out of my head how well Matt Flynn performed within the Packers system. AR is a big key, but not the entire story.
I would also suggest Rodger in his first couple in Green Bay did not look so good. There was a reason they took Brohm in the second rebound in 2008 Go back into this site history and you will find a lot of criticism on Rodgers. Someone helped him develop, oh wait I am sure it was Favre that helped Rodger develop.
Look at the teams that are good consistently, the draft/develop good QBs and so long as they do a decent job of protecting them they're in games. This year, the Giants, Steelers and Falcons aren't protecting their QBs and they're flopping.
Other teams fight over our castoffs. There are more Packers and ex-Packers in the league than any other teams.
Heck. Lawrence Guy blocked a pass for an INT and blocked a FG for SD today. Ex-Packer. Wasn't he a 7th rounder?
quote:There was a reason they took Brohm in the second rebound in 2008
One thing I really respect about the current Packer culture is there are no rookie hazing stories over recent years (that I can remember).
No one taped to goal posts, no one having their head shaved, no one being thrown into a ice tub against, none of the crap that's going on in Miami right now. It's counterproductive to the goal of winning.
There's a lot less friction for the young players to achieve their potential when the culture treats them like a professional instead of the runt of the litter.
In GB the only friction is the competition. They provide a sound development structure and let the players determine their fate in the class room and on the field.
Howard Cosell is spinning in his grave!
quote:There was a reason they took Brohm in the second rebound in 2008
Rodger first few years he sat on the bench. During that time A lot of analyst (jaws) and fans were saying he would never make it in the NFL. And he was a Tedford product, Tedford had a long history of producing top ten pick QB busts. Rodgers had that throwing motion were he held the ball next to his ear. Few were thinking that Rodger would be any good that first year he started. And there were a lot of poster on this site that thought Rodgers was a bust before he took over the starting QB spot.
Here is a cartoon were Rodgers is portrayed as a first round bust in 2007
http://bangcartoon.com/2008/teched.htm
Howard Cosell is spinning in his grave!
You're being very truculent 
Big words give us'n all woodies round these parts, yall.
The Gettysburg Address had lots of little words. Little words strung together properly probably produce the most impact. So vex away. Knock yourself out.
I thought we could be sarcastic around here once in a while.
Fedya, if you weren't funin about the big words little words, sorry yall.
Lots of interesting comments here...
The Patriots have done very well, but are nowhere near the Packers when it comes to the draft and personnel moves. Part of the reason that NE brings in so many vet players is because they whiff so frequently in the draft. They were also busted for cheating, egregious cheating, which gave them inside info that other teams didn't have. Massive fines, loss of draft picks and a stain on their org. Once the cheating stopped, so did the championship seasons. In fact the Patriots are 0-2 in Super Bowls since the cheating stopped. That's not a coincidence imo.
As for the cast of nobodies, her's a couple from the 2007 squad: Rodney Harrison, Vince Wilfork, Tedi Bruschi, Asante Samuel, Troy Brown, Tom Brady, Adalius Thomas,Richard Seymour,Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Dante Stallworth, Logan Mankins and others.
The Saints have also done a good job building a team around their superstar QB, Brees And they were also busted for cheating. Massive fines, loss of draft picks and suspensions.. Once the cheating stopped so did their Title runs
The Broncos won back-to back Super Bowls and got busted for cheating the cap- leading to loss of draft picks and fines. Once the cheating stopped, so did the winning
The Packers do it the right way and they took (2) different QBs to the NFC Title game. None of the other teams can make that claim- they've lived and died with a single star QB. Most teams cratered after their star QB left- see Marino's Dolphins, Youngs 49ers, Mannings' Colts, Warner's Rams etc. The Packers won a SB with another QB
There are a small number of teams that compete with GB in one area or another- but there really isn't another franchise that does it better than the Green Bay Packers across the board...in the smallest market of a money-driven league.
And since its beat-the-bears-day, I'll add one more;
22 times on a Sunday / Monday you've woken up to prepare for an NFC North divisional game. Of those 22 times, you've gone to bed a winner on 20 occasions stretching all the way back to 2009. No other team has dominated their division quite like the current Green Bay Packers, injuries and all
Rodgers surely matters, he's awesome,but the Packers organization gave him the foundation to succeed and his success helped breed more success. None of that happens without the best organization in sports (that doesn't rely on cheating to win)
Go Packers and enjoy the game
Well done, Satori!
Satan = Dream from Heaven
I hope he is in sales and marketing!
I hope he is in sales and marketing!
Indeed, I found my special purpose in life
Thanks Green Crusty, that's is likely what I was recalling. Certainly not a scramble but there was the surprise that AR was falling. Thankfully the Packers do the work even when it looked like AR would be nowhere near available for them to pick.
Satori, good stuff...
...The reality is that the Packers lucked out he was there late in the draft...
"Divine Intervention".
Good stuff, Satori. But we'll still complain if we lose tonight.
.
The 49ers needed no luck at all, Rodgers was available but they took a pass
The dolphins lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The browns lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The bears lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The bucs lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The titans lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The vikings lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The cardinals lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The redskins lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The lions lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The cowboys lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The chargers lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The saints lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The chiefs lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The texans lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The bengals lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The vikings lucked out again that Rodgers was available, but they still took a pass
The rams lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The cowboys lucked out that Rodgers was still available, but they took a pass again
The jaguars lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The ravens lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
The raiders lucked out that Rodgers was available, but they took a pass
Finally, the Packers lucked out that Rodgers was available, so they drafted him
When you look at it this way, the silliness of the "packers got lucky" comment is crystal clear, not unlike the cop- out that the Packers are successful only because of Rodgers
Sure are a lot of Packer fans that just can't seem to give credit where credit is due.... for the team they allegedly follow and cheer for.
Maybe someday Hauser will explain it to me.
Till then:
Go Packers
to add to the division stats the nfc north is the only division in football where all four teams have made the playoffs within the last three years. -source: mm in a radio interview
Well, I think we've learned these last 2 games that there is a definite limit to "next man up". The Pack was still a good team at about 10 injuries, it's the ones beyond 10 like Rodgers and Dietrich-Smith that turned things around in a bad way quickly.
Maybe in the future Tolzien can be a legit "next man up", but he wasn't quite ready today and his supporting cast did him no favors.
