The "PROBLEM" With The Offense

Sadly, don't really see it changing with the loss of Jordy. Janis is the only guy with the size/speed but dude isn't in the same universe as Jordy when it comes to being a complete receiver. Adams/Jones aren't taking the top of any defense and Cobb is a little slot receiver. Abby is another guy perfect for the slot. Ty might be the one guy who can do it but he's been out over a month with a nasty high ankle sprain so who knows how effective he'll be once he returns

The "explosive" plays from this offense will likely have to come in the YAC variety. Quick hitters and hope they can make some guys miss and turn a little 5-8 yard pass into a 30+ yarder

 

We've seen this movie all season and it is what it is. 

Maybe no explosive downfield plays but I'll settle for grinding it out via the run and move the chains via smart quick passes.

And, oh yeah, I'd call a lot of those screen passes explosive plays.

I'm liking this offense, let's see how it plays on the road. Another benifit may be that if the running game continues to make big gains the DB's may have to jam the box creating a bit more room for the receivers.   Just win baby, no style points are awarded. 

Cam threw 74

Mostly YAC. Bad tackling that Ginn easily broke from.

It certainly appears that the recievers are not aware of the fans desperation for them to get open and make good things happen on the football field,it seems they run faster to the bank every two weeks than they run to rid themselves of the defenders or to get to the ball when open.

They need to figure something out and not just for the remainder of this season. Jordy tain't gonna fix the WRs by himself.  Even if he does, he is now 30 and won't be able to continue being the guy he's been for much longer.

DH13 posted:

They need to figure something out and not just for the remainder of this season. Jordy tain't gonna fix the WRs by himself.  Even if he does, he is now 30 and won't be able to continue being the guy he's been for much longer.

Jordy will be 31 before the start of next season. Donald Driver was an above average WR until he was 34, but other than that most WRs start to decline in their early 30s. I think Nelson will be a good WR next year, but expecting 95 receptions for 1500 yards is going to be too much next year coming off an ACL tear. I think he becomes a much, much better version of the role James Jones plays this year. He'll catch a lot of passes (something like 70 catches for 1000 yards and 8 TDs), but he may not draw the double teams that he used to.

They've invested a lot of picks - including some premium picks at WR in the last few years. 2015- Montgomery (3); 2014 - Adams (2); Abbrederis (5); Janis (7); 2011 - Cobb (2). You'd expect that with 3 guys drafted in the first 100 picks of drafts would be a pretty large investment. Either because of injury or inability, they aren't getting enough out of Adams and Montgomery. You don't expect your 5th and 7th round guys to be Pro Bowl level WRs.

If they invest another high pick it will show what they really think of Adams and Montgomery. They are the key to all of this.

STEVELUKE, I agree with most of your post with the exception of the OL blocking well. Of course, I can't say they played poorly yesterday, but there were enough breakdowns and penalties to say they play well.

I also think it important to remember the effect OL performance has on the vertical passing game. Again, not to say they have failed completely, but ARod has been forced to scramble more than he has been able to throw from a pocket. Both Tackle position are sub-par, IMHO, and getting at least one of them stabilized will have as much importance as our (current or future) WRs.

This is Adams' second year and Monty's first, and how many games did Monty play this year?  I've heard commentators say (I know, most of them are idiots) that it takes 2 - 4 years for WRs to fully develop in this league.  There are some exceptions like Randy Moss and players of his ilk, but those are the elite ones.  I don't think the packers have elite WRs (with the exception of Nelson).

As far as drafting WR next draft, if the Packers draft another WR with a high pick, it's because the best player available at that time happens to be a wide receiver.  I don't think it will mean they have given up on the new, young talent currently on the roster.  Just my opinion.

cuqui posted:

We've seen this movie all season and it is what it is. 

Maybe no explosive downfield plays but I'll settle for grinding it out via the run and move the chains via smart quick passes.

And, oh yeah, I'd call a lot of those screen passes explosive plays.

This is good a take as any.

It's pretty obvious, whatever the reason may be, that Abby or Janis are not going to play any significant role on offense this year. That said, I still wish we would try at least some plays with one or both of them on the field. Maybe a WR screen or a reverse; something to get them in space and let 'em use their speed. Ditto for occasionally a fly pattern even if they're not the primary receiver. Might get open, may cause a PI penalty, at worst an incomplete pass it seems to me. 

"As far as drafting WR next draft, if the Packers draft another WR with a high pick, it's because the best player available at that time happens to be a wide receiver."

Yep.

Who thought we needed a WR in the 3rd round this year?  Nobody.  Needs change quickly and TT doesn't draft solely based on need.  I have no idea what the college WR crop looks like this year.

I for one wouldn't be the least bit shocked to see them go WR early in the draft.  It seems like the classic TT move in the draft to see one step ahead if he thinks Jordy may not be all the way back and they need some sort of deep threat.

As for the offense it may be my green and gold glasses but I think it will get better then next couple of weeks.  It may not have been great at times with MM calling plays but it just felt better for some reason.  Time will tell of course but I have more optimism with the offense than I have in awhile.

 

WR is almost a necessity in this draft. Janis has barely sniffed the field in two years, Abby has spent more time on the injury report than on the active roster, and Jones is not a spring chicken. Jordy isn't young either and is coming off an ACL year. So really the future of this WR core is Cobb, Adams, and Monty. I would be surprised if they don't address WR at some point on day 2.

Jordy will be back. A farm boy like him will be in top shape by training camp. Plenty of time to groom the next receiver.

Grave Digger posted:

WR is almost a necessity in this draft. Janis has barely sniffed the field in two years, Abby has spent more time on the injury report than on the active roster, and Jones is not a spring chicken. Jordy isn't young either and is coming off an ACL year. So really the future of this WR core is Cobb, Adams, and Monty. I would be surprised if they don't address WR at some point on day 2.

I'd prefer left tackle, but value wise, you will get more bang for your buck at WR where we will be drafting.   

As pedestrian as Rodgers has looked this year. 28 TDs and 5 picks. Easy to lose sight how good he is when he's less than fans expect. 

I dig where the offense is right now. Gotta keep that run game cranked up that's really only been slowed down by Clements hell bent desire to sling the ball. Clements threw GB out of a win against Chicago on Thanksgiving. I believe that was Mikes "I was wrong" epiphany. 

No team wants a one or done game against Rodgers with a running game in the playoffs. Palmer, Wlson, Newton. Whatever. I'll take Aaron Rodgers over those three at QB in the post season and it's not close. 

ChilliJon posted:

As pedestrian as Rodgers has looked this year. 28 TDs and 5 picks. Easy to lose sight how good he is when he's less than fans expect. 

I dig where the offense is right now. Gotta keep that run game cranked up that's really only been slowed down by Clements hell bent desire to sling the ball. Clements threw GB out of a win against Chicago on Thanksgiving. I believe that was Mikes "I was wrong" epiphany. 

No team wants a one or done game against Rodgers with a running game in the playoffs. Palmer, Wlson, Newton. Whatever. I'll take Aaron Rodgers over those three at QB in the post season and it's not close. 

Excellent  post Chilli.

Note the bold.  I think you are right.  Everyone was baffled on why we stopped when there was no need.  Who knows, there were notes of how long changes at the line were taking vs. no need to make changes when it was the right call for the formation. 

MM wasn't perfect, but he was right and had a great game plan which was executed well.  It only gave 12 no choice because it was the correct call.

Maybe getting back to das boot in charge, the choices Clements AND 12 got were eliminated.  No more overthinking.  Run this play. It will work.

Im pessimistic at Jordy coming back to 14' form. I honestly don't care what it takes, this offense with a top flight receiver, could win now, and I think they're gonna need that mantality next offseason. They have to. The o line, tight ends, are good enough, now. Our window is closing, not opening. 

One thing I hated about TC calling plays was our pace. It seemed on every down that by the time AR got to the line and just started calling signals, there were 6 secs or less left on the play clock. Every snap seemed to come with 1-3 seconds left, which meant the DL could tee off because they knew the snap had to come when it did. Our offense was sluggish and wasted a lot of clock.

SteveLuke posted:

Consider by comparison the passing game performances of our 3 chief NFC rivals this past weekend: Carson Palmer threw 42 & 65 yard TDs, among Russell Wilson's 5 passing TDs (and playing without his top 2 RBs & starting TE) was a 49-yard bomb, and Cam threw 74 & 46 yard TDs in the Panthers 38-0 win.

It is hard to believe this is true given what we've seen in the past, but somehow, somewhere, the Packers need to generate big plays from their WRs, because they are just not getting them anymore (Richard Rodgers Hail Mary notwithstanding). Can JJ, Adams, and possibly Montgomery get it done?

If by jj you mean Jeff Janis, I would say yes. They have to let him use his speed.

Adams was the guy teams needed to stop after Jordy went down. They did. The kid lost all confidence. Get it back kid. You're getting favorable coverage from here on out. You need to put your fail to your advantage. 

Janis needs to get squared with Rodgers. I'm not talking fly routes either. Underneath stuff. That's how he's beating defenses. 

Jordy caught 9 passes for 95 yards last year in two playoff games and no TDs. But he opened things up by drawing coverage. GB still ran for 120 yards per game.  

No team in the playoffs is stacking the box and daring Rodgers to beat them. Not one and done. Run teams out of coverage. Then Adams is the key to the playoffs. He has to come up nails. He effing has to. 

ChilliJon posted:

Adams was the guy teams needed to stop after Jordy went down. They did. The kid lost all confidence. Get it back kid. You're getting favorable coverage from here on out. You need to put your fail to your advantage. 

No team in the playoffs is stacking the box and daring Rodgers to beat them. Not one and done. Run teams out of coverage. Then Adams is the key to the playoffs. He has to come up nails. He effing has to. 

Have you been watching him play? This isn't a confidence issue, or some sort of slump, or any mental thing he can just shake off. His fundamentals are just shot. He can't even run a route. This isn't going to just fix itself. It hasn't week to week now for like a month. If anything it has gotten worse.

Adams is the "key to the playoffs?" Good Lord help us I hope not.

He's the key alright, but not by just blindly hoping he turns it around.  That is just not happening.  The key now is getting Abby and Janis worked into the rotation in his place, so they get game experience and are in synch with AR in time for the playoffs, in my opinion. 

Adams needs to be on the sidelines, healing and learning by watching. And his position coach should be working with him on his fundamentals so if he does sub in, he doesn't stink up the field any more.  It's that bad.

Watching Leroy Butler a few weeks ago and they were pointing out a few routes that Adams ran and showed him running at about 60% and said that he clearly wasn't ready to be back yet.  The next game he was targeted 21 times.  

The game isn't too big for Adams, he has made some big time plays in big time situations during his rookie year.   IMO Adams got hurt and lost some confidence.  He'll get it back as his health improves and as he starts having more success.  I think that MM calling plays again will also help with that success.

We're all so hard on a young 2nd year player who is battling to come back from an ankle injury.  All of the receivers have looked like **** at some point this season, a combination of injury and questionable play calling has certainly contributed to that.

I'm saying it right here, right now.  I think Adams is going to be a ****ing star in this offense, old spice commercials, benching jet skis, the whole damn thing.  I'm certainly not ready to give up on a 2nd year player who has showed as much promise as Adams has.   I barely knew who Donald Driver was his 2nd year here.  Trust in the system, draft and develop has worked pretty damn well for this team and there has been no better example than our receivers. 

All well and good for the future, Bartmandude.  I'm not saying give up on him completely. I'm  talking about the right now. Playing him in his current stage of development is not only bad for the team, it is bad for him.

All he is doing is repeating bad habits, and being rewarded for crappy play. That's not helping him.

No indication the coaching staff believes that benching Adams would be beneficial to himself or the team. The talent is there and apparently they feel he needs to work his way through the rough patch and I would agree with that.

That very well could be the case Pistol, it's certainly an understandable conclusion.  It's very possibly that I'm expecting too much of a positive effect from MM calling plays.  I'm also a big ole green and gold optimist

I do know that most of us would not have correctly predicted Dickrod's mega game after many weeks of watching him suck it up.  I was convinced that he wasn't ever going to be able to get open again until he lost some weight/muscle.  And Lacy has looked unmotivated, fat and slow, but against the cowboys he suddenly had drive, power and a burst.

Winning builds confidence, preparation builds confidence, being put in the best position to have success builds confidence.

This Sunday should be quite telling and we'll most likely soon see who's opinion is most correct.

 

 

Duhvante is coming home this weekend.

Let's see what happens.

ChilliJon posted:

As pedestrian as Rodgers has looked this year. 28 TDs and 5 picks. Easy to lose sight how good he is when he's less than fans expect. 

I dig where the offense is right now. Gotta keep that run game cranked up that's really only been slowed down by Clements hell bent desire to sling the ball. Clements threw GB out of a win against Chicago on Thanksgiving. I believe that was Mikes "I was wrong" epiphany. 

No team wants a one or done game against Rodgers with a running game in the playoffs. Palmer, Wlson, Newton. Whatever. I'll take Aaron Rodgers over those three at QB in the post season and it's not close. 

@BenFennell_NFL:  Packers season high in rushing yards, season high in rush percentage... And Rodgers a cool 10/12 for 98yds and 2 TD on play-action #Recipe

#Blueprint

The only reason Adams should sit is injury. He's too talented to bench just to help his psyche recover. He needs to catch the ball and score TDs to get his confidence up, benching him will only frustrate him. It's not a similar situation to Lacy, who was showing off-field immaturity and needed a wake up call, Adams needs confidence. I think having McCarthy calling plays will get Rodgers back in gear and everyone will feed off that, including Adams.

I get all this stuff about playing Davante to help him get untracked, the supposed lack of other options, etc.

I'd feel a hell of a lot better about that if he was hustling out there and working his tail off rather than going through the motions on half the snaps. 11v11 is hard enough, extended stretches of 10v11 won't get it done.

It's all a MM ploy.  We'll show our explosive WR plays in the playoffs.  Our WR's are only running at 75% now, on purpose.  Just wait.

 

 

 

Is he not hustling because of attitude or because of health? Big difference. If it's health related then he needs to be given routes/plays that are possible with his level of health.

Draft some tackles and WR.  Needs to happen if for competition sake only.   

What's funny is I think this oline is actually better suited for run blocking with all the injuries.  They just have to smack a guy in the mouth and not worry about footwork so much on tweaked knees and everything else.  Just punch them in the mouth.  Rodgers needs to get into a manager mindset.

The problem with the offense all season has been their inability to beat man coverage.  And very little in they way of schemes to beat it.  So everyone plays us man-to-man now because it's so effective.

This article does a good job explaining it and why we need more "man-beater" looks.  Which has been an issue because we've almost exclusively played an "iso-spread" offense.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/1...ncos-loss-nfl-week-8

I think the lack of transitioning the play calling to counteract the looks defenses have shown us is a reason MM took back play calling duties.  You can't go out there, see man coverage, and run the same isolation passes all game expecting it to work.  Especially when you don't have burner receivers.

I think we're starting to venture into Captain Obvious territory with our thorough dissection of the Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight offense.

Grave Digger posted:

The only reason Adams should sit is injury. He's too talented to bench just to help his psyche recover. He needs to catch the ball and score TDs to get his confidence up, benching him will only frustrate him. It's not a similar situation to Lacy, who was showing off-field immaturity and needed a wake up call, Adams needs confidence. I think having McCarthy calling plays will get Rodgers back in gear and everyone will feed off that, including Adams.

Whatever the reason, he cannot run routes.  It has been visible since his return. You watch and you go, "Why is he in there?"  I said he looked injured right off the bat, it is documented here.  It looks like he can't plant his foot, and he has to round off his routes, which looks like half-assing it (which it kind of is, but it's more like half-footing it).

 If you can't plant your foot, you can't cut.  If you can't cut, you can't routes.  If you can't do that, you are not going to get open.  If you are not  getting open, you are not helping the team.  If you are not helping the team, you don't start.  

That's the basics of it, IMO.  You don't trot him out there and talk about where he was drafted and how good he looked last year and how he has all the tools.  His draft status shouldn't mean a thing in these circumstances.  Last year is clearly gone and his "tools" are not working, for whatever reason. The reason is irrelevant.

Not comparing him to AJ Hawk, but a lot of the same arguments I'm hearing about D.A. sound eerily familiar.  It makes you wonder if there is any kind of the same mindset going on here, and how "unready" Janis and Abby really are.

 

What Pistol said.