This Truly is The End of the Thompson-McCarthy Era

hopefully the Mark Murphy era is short lived. I dont have a lot of confidence that his new hands on leadership is going to end well. 

It really seem crazy to me that the TT/MM era is now over.  At first I resisted that this change needed to be made but as the season went on it was time to move on to the future.  I for one will think back on this era very fondly and I am very thankful for what they did in GB.

I for one do not share the pessimism some have for the future of the Packers.  I strongly believe that a new coach will bring a breath of fresh air to this team.  I also do no believe that talent is totally barren on this roster.  If for once this team can stay healthy next year I fully expect them to be in the mix.

Strong case to be made that Murphy was asleep at the switch and changes should have been made much earlier.

It ain't over until the purge each and every coach that was under McCarthy, which needs to happen. 

Except Pettine - That dude can coach & to be quite honest I don't think he was a "McCarthy hire" - What he did without Clark, Daniels, Perry, Wilkerson, DB's - and STILL got pressure on the QB.....that's some pretty impressive smoke & mirrors.

Why does MichiganJoe always have a goofy looking pic of the Pack's HC as his avatar.

The era of those two is over, correct, but Mark Murphy (2007-??) is still here trying to one-up a talented GM and refusing to give up power over the head coach. Did you see their side-by-side presser?

Until Gesundheit has proper GM control, I firmly believe we're still in the TT/MM era, because a lot of it was dictated by what Murphy's vision was for the front office.

Boris is correct that Pettine needs to stay.  The dude can coach and I would love to see what he could do if he had all of the players available on defense.  He has a bunch of no names and older vets playing their hearts out which is something the D has been missing the prevous years.

Was a good era. Better than any Viks fan had.

NumberThree posted:

The era of those two is over, correct, but Mark Murphy (2007-??) is still here trying to one-up a talented GM and refusing to give up power over the head coach.

What actually is going on inside 1265 is unknown. 

Until someone wakes me up, I'm dreaming of a Mike Pettine and a Lincoln Riley "like" combination. If they need to go that way, maybe MP has changed his mind about wanting to be HC. 

i would not mind seeing Dirk Koetter as the offensive co-ordinator. Not as a head coach but he does pretty well on offense. 

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Except Pettine - That dude can coach & to be quite honest I don't think he was a "McCarthy hire" - What he did without Clark, Daniels, Perry, Wilkerson, DB's - and STILL got pressure on the QB.....that's some pretty impressive smoke & mirrors.

Don't forget that they also got rid of Mike Trgovac, promoted Jerry Montgomery, and kind of promoted Joe Whitt. Monty seems to have done really well with the interior DL. I'd like to keep both of these guys in addition to Pettine. 

The Heckler posted:

Boris is correct that Pettine needs to stay.  The dude can coach and I would love to see what he could do if he had all of the players available on defense.  He has a bunch of no names and older vets playing their hearts out which is something the D has been missing the prevous years.

Pettine doesn't "NEED" to stay. I'd enjoy if the new head coach interviewed or chose to keep him, but it should not be a requirement of any hire at Head Coach. You should never mandate who that coach hires for his staff. 

I just want a competent coaching staff, including the assistants.  

There is nothing on the offensive side of the ball that shouldn't be flushed but there are decent guys on the defensive side of the ball.  New HC gets the call but it's not really unusual to keep a couple of old regime guys.  It's not like every coach has a turnkey staff.

Like GD said, if it were to happen, I'd keep Pettine, Whitt and Montgomery.  The rest can go.

TT and MM did a great job here, just wish they could have won 1 or 2 more World Championships.

I read on another board that TT is not in good health and has gone back to Texas. Don't know for sure if it's true but there are concerns he won't be healthy enough to come back for his Packers Hall Of Fame induction next year.  I think TT's final years here, he wasn't healthy enough to run things as well as he had before and unfortunately he hung on a couple years too long.  

I think MM did a great job as well and it will be hard to ever duplicate what the Pack did in 2010-2011.

Here's to hoping the Gutekunst/? era will be as good or better than the previous one.  It won't be easy to duplicate that success.

I think you can sum up 2015 to 2017 as the Ball Era.  I'd seriously like to know what picks and transactions he influenced.

If the reports on Ball dabbling in personnel decisions are accurate that would be the huge red flag that Murphy missed.

Henry posted:

I think you can sum up 2015 to 2017 as the Ball Sack Era. I’d seriously like to know what picks and transactions he influenced.

FIFY

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Except Pettine - That dude can coach & to be quite honest I don't think he was a "McCarthy hire" - What he did without Clark, Daniels, Perry, Wilkerson, DB's - and STILL got pressure on the QB.....that's some pretty impressive smoke & mirrors.

If only the younger guys knew how to avoid whiffing on a free QB hit!

Though CHI's O is up and down, it has shown flashes of impressive innovation.  I thought Cohen and Gabriel were going to eat our scrubs up yesterday.  They got some work done but it wasn't the track meet I kind of expected.

Like you said, with all the guys out and a bunch of echos at S, I'm not exactly sure how Pettine did it.  I know Trubisky helped him but it's not like he's a stiff.

michiganjoe posted:

If the reports on Ball dabbling in personnel decisions are accurate that would be the huge red flag that Murphy missed.

Unless he was onboard.  I don't know which is worse.

Timpranillo posted:

The Heckler posted:

Boris is correct that Pettine needs to stay.  The dude can coach and I would love to see what he could do if he had all of the players available on defense.  He has a bunch of no names and older vets playing their hearts out which is something the D has been missing the prevous years.

Pettine doesn't "NEED" to stay. I'd enjoy if the new head coach interviewed or chose to keep him, but it should not be a requirement of any hire at Head Coach. You should never mandate who that coach hires for his staff. 

What I  really should have said he should stay or it would be great if he stayed.  You cannot mandate to the coach who he should keep/bring in to his staff it just can't work that way.

Henry posted:

I think you can sum up 2015 to 2017 as the Ball Era.  I'd seriously like to know what picks and transactions he influenced.

I think Ball had a lot of influence over the FA activity (or lack thereof), but honestly I think the biggest difference was was the change in this "Director of Football Operations" position. From '09 to '12 that position was held by John Schneider, Reggie McKenzie, and John Dorsey. When they left I think Thompson took over that position until Wolf took it over in 2016. To me that was likely the catalyst for the overall change in the program, TT likey spent less time doing the things he was good at having to focus on a wider range of things while guys like Gute, Wolf, and Highsmith got pulled from lower level personnel or scouting positions to high level FO positions. Not that they didn't deserve it, but I got the impression they were outstanding in those roles and may not have been adequately replaced. So TT was likely scouting less, the quality of scouting that was done changed, and the relationship between the FO and the coaching staff may have changed also. TT has always been aloof, but I'm willing to bet, based on what we know of their relationship, that Schneider and Dorsey were MM's back channels into the FO to get personnel he wanted/needed. Doesn't sound like Wolf, Highsmith or Gute had the same relationship with MM. 

Biggest failing, IMO, was not seeking out and pulling in outside personnel guys. Should have roped in Scot McCloughan when the 49ers fired him. Should have brought John Dorsey back into the fold when KC fired him. Should try to bring Reggie McKenzie back. It's a great idea to develop and promote from within, but it's not a bad thing to bring in veteran help. 

Two way street, those guys would have had to be willing to come back to a "lesser" job title I imagine.

McCloughan went to Seattle as a "Senior Personnel Executive" after being a GM, could have used one of those when we lost Schneider (who smartly brought in SM). No offense to Gute, but Dorsey should be the GM in GB right now, there was no reason not to bring him in. This was a big failure by Murphy. By all accounts Dorsey WANTED to be in GB, I find it hard to believe they couldn't have worked something out. 

Ball has this whole Dwight Schrute thing going.  

I'm head accountant flunkie but also Asst VP of Professional Player Jock Implementation.

Like he'd get some bullshit title to be part of the gang.

Bet Ball ran a tight ship at the beet farm.

Trying to make sense of all the changes (team and office) and those that are coming seems overwhelming. I think a little perspective helps.
The team has been through this stuff plenty of times, going all the way back to Lambeau himself. We've had to move on from Lombardi, from Holmgren/Wolf, and now from McCarthy/Thompson.
We'll be fine in the long run.
The next couple of years will indeed be interesting. Not only players and coaches coming and going, but a new CBA approaching that could have a major impact on both immediate and future decisions. 

I was mocked on another thread for moaning about the loss of Taysom Hill as an example of MM's judgment in recent years, and last night's game picked that scab. The guy is an AMAZING athlete pure and simple and MM couldn't see how we could use him the way Sean Peyton is using him. 

We do what we do. Keep it simple, in boxes, categories, etc.

Doesn't help to have incompetent ST coaches.

Grave Digger posted:

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Except Pettine - That dude can coach & to be quite honest I don't think he was a "McCarthy hire" - What he did without Clark, Daniels, Perry, Wilkerson, DB's - and STILL got pressure on the QB.....that's some pretty impressive smoke & mirrors.

Don't forget that they also got rid of Mike Trgovac, promoted Jerry Montgomery, and kind of promoted Joe Whitt. Monty seems to have done really well with the interior DL. I'd like to keep both of these guys in addition to Pettine. 

If the new HC keeps Pettine, I'd give him the assistant HC title and make it real. Give Pettine the decision to keep/dump his staff and bring in new position coaches. 

PackerHawk posted:

Grave Digger posted:

Brainwashed Boris posted:

 

If the new HC keeps Pettine, I'd give him the assistant HC title and make it real. Give Pettine the decision to keep/dump his staff and bring in new position coaches. 

THIS.  ∧∧∧

Please make it come true. Pettine has done so much with so little this year. He's given me hope for the first time since Fritz... 

YATittle posted:

I was mocked on another thread for moaning about the loss of Taysom Hill as an example of MM's judgment in recent years, and last night's game picked that scab. The guy is an AMAZING athlete pure and simple and MM couldn't see how we could use him the way Sean Peyton is using him. 

We do what we do. Keep it simple, in boxes, categories, etc.

Doesn't help to have incompetent ST coaches.

Bill Schroeder was an amazing athlete too (you have to be pretty damn good to be a decathlete).  And yet everybody was constantly on his case for his alligator arms.

I don't think Schroeder had alligator arms; it was more like T-rex. Schroeder heard footsteps from the tunnel whenever he was anywhere but tiptoeing down the sideline. 

Yeah, that's another thing I want. COMPETENT Special Teams. Other than Crosby, who at times has also sucked, our Special Teams is complete horseshit

I think our STs had more Penalty flags thrown on it than any other STs in the League.Our STs did a lot of stupid stuff this season, too.  Stuff like running into our returner, players being out of position on a punt, so the ball brushes them and the other team recovers the ball.  11 STs players piled into a Yugo, pads and all, on punt/ kick coverage in the center ring. See you around, Zook! This circus is over!

Ain't had a good one since Nolan Cromwell.

Even Cromwell was hated in his first years. Things changed when the roster gained more talent.  

NumberThree posted:

The era of those two is over, correct, but Mark Murphy (2007-??) is still here trying to one-up a talented GM and refusing to give up power over the head coach. Did you see their side-by-side presser?

Until Gesundheit has proper GM control, I firmly believe we're still in the TT/MM era, because a lot of it was dictated by what Murphy's vision was for the front office.

I was under the impression that Murphy was relegated to the business side of the organization until last year when he apparently finally discovered the disfunction all the way over on the football side of things, so I never gave him much credit or discredit for what occurred on the field until this season.

Will be very interesting to see who Murphy picks as "his" new head coach.

Murphy wasn't involved at all.  He was Goodell's money man in Green Bay.  Football operations were some tertiary thing, which makes his position in the organization even more egregious.  He's essentially the owner who is more interested in the revenue than actual football.

No, no... he's been involved in football his entire adult life.